Robert Pattinson IS The Batman

[BMW 224]

Pointy nose wasn't an issue for performances with the Burton and Schumacher films though. I've seen the previous outfits up close, they all have holes under the nose for the actor. Bale was the only actor I've seen visibly/audibly struggle with the fit.


While I agree, it's funny how it took a film with 99% Batman screen time for me to realize how integral that other half of his persona is to completing the image.

Makes me reconsider the upheld "Batman is the real identity, not Bruce" maxim.

Same.

Although I think that might have been Matt Reeves intention.

 

[DKDetective]

Pointy nose wasn't an issue for performances with the Burton and Schumacher films though. I've seen the previous outfits up close, they all have holes under the nose for the actor. Bale was the only actor I've seen visibly/audibly struggle with the fit.


While I agree, it's funny how it took a film with 99% Batman screen time for me to realize how integral that other half of his persona is to completing the image.

Makes me reconsider the upheld "Batman is the real identity, not Bruce" maxim.

I've seen those cowls as well and the nose holes are pretty small. They don't exactly lend themselves to effective or unrestricted breathing. Bale's breathing difficulties might in part have to do with the fact that he was going for a more aggressive animalistic performance. Keaton basically whispered as the character and due to differences in action requirements of his era and his choice of a more wraith-like physicality, didn't have to exert himself as much in the costume. Kilmer made similar choices as well and Clooney didn't try to put on any sort of persona in the costume at all... So I think that accounts for it to an extent.

 

[chintai80]

here's how i currently rate the batmans:

1. adam west = great batman, great bruce wayne.

unquestionably iconic. the silver age batman brought to life. so very much it's own thing compared to the others.
west is a delight in the role, it's always a fun version of batman to watch - and works as batman 101 intro for kids.


2. michael keaton = great batman, very good bruce wayne.

arguably iconic, but different from how west's was.
some would see keaton as still the best since he set the bar for serious batman portrayals and i could understand that.
every subsequent portrayal by others has had some keaton batman dna in it.
his influence is inescapable.


3. val kilmer = good batman, good bruce wayne.

kilmer had potential to be one of the best batmans but he needed to be in a better movie. the movie and his portrayal is still fun to watch though..


4. george clooney = george clooney


5. christian bale = great batman, the best bruce wayne

funny voice withstanding (it was cool / badass in begins, but overdone in the sequels), up until now, his batman felt the most definitive for me. certainly the most fleshed out so far.
and up until that point, brought the most nuance to the character.
i feel bale really carried a lot of the nolan trilogy, which is probably some of the best comic book movies, imo.


6. ben affleck = very good batman, good bruce wayne.

sort of torn on this - i really enjoyed his performances in bvs and snyder cut and i dug those movies, but always felt he was missing that special something to elevate the role to greatness. though i do feel he really started to come into his own in the snyder cut. this was a version of the batman that only fits into zack's world.
but you can tell affleck really put effort into his performance, when it was zack behind the camera though. lol.


7. robert pattinson = the best batman, very good bruce wayne

i'm still debating in my head who's the best overall...pattinson or bale?
but as of now, pattinson is THE best live action batman to me. his portrayal of the caped crusader is the most emotionally complex and nuanced, and the closest to the comics i grew up reading.
his bruce wayne is a very specific version who is still going through his journey and not the fully realized one we know from the comics, so will have to see how he evolves in the sequels, but i did enjoy his performance a lot in this.

 

[Boom]

Pointy nose wasn't an issue for performances with the Burton and Schumacher films though. I've seen the previous outfits up close, they all have holes under the nose for the actor. Bale was the only actor I've seen visibly/audibly struggle with the fit.


While I agree, it's funny how it took a film with 99% Batman screen time for me to realize how integral that other half of his persona is to completing the image.

Makes me reconsider the upheld "Batman is the real identity, not Bruce" maxim.

I'll be curious to see how Bruce Wayne evolves in Film 2. Given where the character was at emotionally and psychologically in this movie, I thought it worked. He was almost catatonic and emotionally frozen in time.

Obviously where The Batman ended, we'll need to see growth in the sequel.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Batman doesn’t have an European nose in this.

 

[BatLobster]

Keaton and Pattinson are kinda battling it out for me. Both have that sexy/cool/mysterious factor in the cowl with very expressive eyes. But I mean, Keaton is Keaton. That's my childhood you're talking about right there. And his performance holds up totally. He gets a ton of credit for his role in making all of this possible and making Batman cool in the way that he did. Pattinson has a nostalgia wall to deal with that I'm not sure he can ever really break through for me. I also found his take on Bruce Wayne to fall kind of flat, even if that's not necessarily a fault of his.

Bale is at the top by default because to me he plays the most complete version of the character, and is easily the best Bruce Wayne for me which I've realized more than ever may be the most important aspect for me. He's the one I emotionally invested in the most, beyond just the cool factor that I acknowledge others had over him.

I really have no strong feelings about Batfleck at all. It's a thing that happened to me. Beyond not liking the take on the character, I just could never get past seeing Ben Affleck in a Batsuit. He was good overall in the role, I just had 0 personal attachment to it.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Pattinson as Batman is my favorite.

Bruce Wayne I kinda prefer Bale still.

Having read several interviews with both Reeves and Pattinson, I get the sense that this Bruce insofar as the public persona is concerned is still a work in progress. That is, we could still end up with a more traditional, albeit highly distinct, take on the playboy philanthropist when all is said and done. That's not to say that we can't draw comparisons between Pattinson's performance as it's presented here and now with that of his predecessors in the role; I just prefer to wait until the character has evolved a bit more.

 

[antsman41]

I think Pattinson will grow into a perfect mix of [loner/stoic Bruce] Keaton and [heartfelt / headstrong Bruce] Bale. Right now he's built up this tragic Bruce who's mostly doesn't have any identity as Bruce. I loved that about the film... and you can tell that the heroism of Batman at the end will have as much affect upon Bruce as well. Especially concerning his relationship with Alfred will be the foundation to open up to Wayne Foundation, etc. involving Gotham.

 

[BMW 224]

Having read several interviews with both Reeves and Pattinson, I get the sense that this Bruce insofar as the public persona is concerned is still a work in progress. That is, we could still end up with a more traditional, albeit highly distinct, take on the playboy philanthropist when all is said and done. That's not to say that we can't draw comparisons between Pattinson's performance as it's presented here and now with that of his predecessors in the role; I just prefer to wait until the character has evolved a bit more.

I don't have a problem with the idea behind this Bruce Wayne.

I just feel that it was a bit to undersated like the didn't give Robert much to work with in that regard.

 

[BMW 224]

Keaton and Pattinson are kinda battling it out for me. Both have that sexy/cool/mysterious factor in the cowl with very expressive eyes. But I mean, Keaton is Keaton. That's my childhood you're talking about right there. And his performance holds up totally. He gets a ton of credit for his role in making all of this possible and making Batman cool in the way that he did. Pattinson has a nostalgia wall to deal with that I'm not sure he can ever really break through for me. I also found his take on Bruce Wayne to fall kind of flat, even if that's not necessarily a fault of his.

Bale is at the top by default because to me he plays the most complete version of the character, and is easily the best Bruce Wayne for me which I've realized more than ever may be the most important aspect for me. He's the one I emotionally invested in the most, beyond just the cool factor that I acknowledge others had over him.

I really have no strong feelings about Batfleck at all. It's a thing that happened to me. Beyond not liking the take on the character, I just could never get past seeing Ben Affleck in a Batsuit. He was good overall in the role, I just had 0 personal attachment to it.

I like Keaton's Batman but I really dislike his Bruce Wayne.

It feels like he was aping Christopher Reeves Clark Kent for me I recognize that's unpopular though just didn't feel like there was alot of trauma or depth except when he remembers his parents he was funny charming but that's about it for me.



I have issues with Pattinson Bruce Wayne as well because I think he was kinda flat too with not much emotion I like the concept for where they were going but he felt a bit to immature like unlikebal for me like I was watching a teenager. "Your Not my father" Ect.


Overall these two Bruce Wayne kinds pale in comparison to Bale for me.

But as Batman I prefer Robert Pattinson personally.

 

[antsman41]

I don't have a problem with the idea behind this Bruce Wayne.

I just feel that it was a bit to undersated like the didn't give Robert much to work with in that regard.

I can sort of see how some can say that... BUT I think the most important Bruce scenes (outside of the hospital w/ Alfred) were in costume - and that's certified Pattinson as the best, for me.

Rob using his Bruce voice/showing his anger while talking to Dory, Rob having more layers to his "Batman" voice like with Gordon or Selina - especially the scene where he is in the cave and she's trying to reach him with the contact lens, and most importantly when he's merely the boy wearing a costume for those 15-30 seconds thinking Edward knows he's Bruce Wayne under that cowl.

 

[BMW 224]

I can sort of see how some can say that... BUT I think the most important Bruce scenes (outside of the hospital w/ Alfred) were in costume - and that's certified Pattinson as the best, for me.

Rob using his Bruce voice/showing his anger while talking to Dory, Rob having more layers to his "Batman" voice like with Gordon or Selina - especially the scene where he is in the cave and she's trying to reach him with the contact lens, and most importantly when he's merely the boy wearing a costume for those 15-30 seconds thinking Edward knows he's Bruce Wayne under that cowl.

That's a good point admittedly.

The moments he slipped into Bruce Wayne while still in the Bat costume was something new and phenomenaly done with the writing and subtle changes of performance.

I just feel like the script and his performance were more emotionally grabbing for me personally when he was in the costume.

The hospital scene was great though.

I just find it difficult to see Bruce so empty and rude to Alfred I guess.

 

[antsman41]

Its funny because, I think Bale never got to do that... yet he did get to excel as Batman while wearing the Bruce 3-piece suit - ala the Ra's crashing his birthday / Penthouse attack / Lambo Mr. Reese.

I've joked that Bale was truly only Batman in TDK. Yes, he's Bruce Wayne half of the time... but every Bruce Wayne scene is revolving around doing something related to Batman and his battle with the mob, the Joker, aligning w/ Harvey.

 

[DeadlyWest]

Keaton and Pattinson are kinda battling it out for me. Both have that sexy/cool/mysterious factor in the cowl with very expressive eyes. But I mean, Keaton is Keaton. That's my childhood you're talking about right there. And his performance holds up totally. He gets a ton of credit for his role in making all of this possible and making Batman cool in the way that he did. Pattinson has a nostalgia wall to deal with that I'm not sure he can ever really break through for me. I also found his take on Bruce Wayne to fall kind of flat, even if that's not necessarily a fault of his.

Bale is at the top by default because to me he plays the most complete version of the character, and is easily the best Bruce Wayne for me which I've realized more than ever may be the most important aspect for me. He's the one I emotionally invested in the most, beyond just the cool factor that I acknowledge others had over him.

I really have no strong feelings about Batfleck at all. It's a thing that happened to me. Beyond not liking the take on the character, I just could never get past seeing Ben Affleck in a Batsuit. He was good overall in the role, I just had 0 personal attachment to it.

Yeah, I'm similar when thinking about Pattinson and Conroy.

For me, Kevin Conroy forking is Batman. No ifs, no buts. When I read a comic, I hear his voice, when someone says Batman the first thing I think of is BTAS Batman. He just has everything and is without a shadow of a doubt in my mind the greatest Batman (voice or otherwise) to ever exist.

But despite that, in comes Pattinson with a haunted soul I have never seen done this well for a version of Batman. And it is literally the one thing Conroy lacked simply by virtue of him always portraying Batman in his prime and beyond, when he had his stuff together and we didn't see the struggle of his interpretation of the character to get to that point.

It's so goddamn hard for me to choose one or the other. Conroy is easily the most complete version of the character but the very few things Conroy has ever lacked, Pattinson brings and absolutely nails.

 

[BMW 224]

Its funny because, I think Bale never got to do that... yet he did get to excel as Batman while wearing the Bruce 3-piece suit - ala the Ra's crashing his birthday / Penthouse attack / Lambo Mr. Reese.

I've joked that Bale was truly only Batman in TDK. Yes, he's Bruce Wayne half of the time... but every Bruce Wayne scene is revolving around doing something related to Batman and his battle with the mob, the Joker, aligning w/ Harvey.

Yeah Bale was more confident and insured in what he was doing probably because of his ailles and being trained by ninjas.

Gives me almost a soldier vibe.

Pattinson is much rougher around the edges more vunerbal.

Bale took down Falcone on his first night and seemed to understand society Gotham and what Batman needs to be.


Pattinson didn't even seem to have Falcone on his radar for a whole year since he didn't know how deeply corrupt Gotham was he was kinda doing for himself at first.

Although both versions have moments where the opposite is true as well.

 

[BMW 224]

Yeah, I'm similar when thinking about Pattinson and Conroy.

For me, Kevin Conroy ****ing is Batman. No ifs, no buts. When I read a comic, I hear his voice, when someone says Batman the first thing I think of is BTAS Batman. He just has everything and is without a shadow of a doubt in my mind the greatest Batman (voice or otherwise) to ever exist.

But despite that, in comes Pattinson with a haunted soul I have never seen done this well for a version of Batman. And it is literally the one thing Conroy lacked simply by virtue of him always portraying Batman in his prime and beyond, when he had his stuff together and we didn't see the struggle of his interpretation of the character to get to that point.

It's so goddamn hard for me to choose one or the other. Conroy is easily the most complete version of the character but the very few things Conroy has ever lacked, Pattinson brings and absolutely nails.

The thing I love about Pattinson is that he feels the most affected by his parents death for me.

Robert Pattinson is the only Batman who I think sells the Bruce Wayne died with his parents vibes take extremely well.


Even Batman seems to be less of an escape from that pain and more like a painful reminder in this take.

He's haunted and he doesn't even seem to be full of rage like people usually do when they try to sell this type of Batman.

Instead he's almost exhausted and low key 24/7.

 

[DKDetective]

Yeah, I'm similar when thinking about Pattinson and Conroy.

For me, Kevin Conroy ****ing is Batman. No ifs, no buts. When I read a comic, I hear his voice, when someone says Batman the first thing I think of is BTAS Batman. He just has everything and is without a shadow of a doubt in my mind the greatest Batman (voice or otherwise) to ever exist.

But despite that, in comes Pattinson with a haunted soul I have never seen done this well for a version of Batman. And it is literally the one thing Conroy lacked simply by virtue of him always portraying Batman in his prime and beyond, when he had his stuff together and we didn't see the struggle of his interpretation of the character to get to that point.

It's so goddamn hard for me to choose one or the other. Conroy is easily the most complete version of the character but the very few things Conroy has ever lacked, Pattinson brings and absolutely nails.

I love BTAS and Conroy in it. BTAS is about as perfect a Batman adaptation as possible for my personal tastes. However, a lot of Conroy's subsequent work has started to diminish him in my eyes a little. He seems a bit bored in the role and a lot of the performances are a little phoned in. Also the writing and interpretations aren't as sharp and nuanced and that may be part of the issue with those performances for me. Even with TNBA, Bruce starts to be written as an ash flash and I'm not a fan of that sort of interpretation of a mature Batman. There is some stuff in the Arkham games that even with Conroy' s voice sound wrong and out-of-character to me.

 

[Boom]

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Well, actually, the nose shape wasn't so much to do with the cowl expression. Dillon just references it in terms of the shape of the other cowls. When talking about the skull aspect and expression, he never mentions the nose again.

In other interviews, he makes clear that the squared off nose was a nod to Adam West (whose cowl has a square drawn over the nose) and also to rough and tumble athletes like MMA fighters and football players. They had the image of a bruiser athlete with a nose strip/band. In accordance with the tinkered and homemade appearance of the suit, the nose is meant to be a modification, something he reinforced.

I think though that Doc Jones is right and there is also some unstated practicality behind this nose as well. The past cowls with the more sculpted, pointy noses don't follow the line of the actor's actual nose and are rather built up. They have to have a closed off bottom as a result. The comic book style open bottom would look really bad since the shape of the actor's nose and cowl nose are rather different. The downside of that as we saw with Bale and Affleck is difficulty breathing and lots of distracting mouth breathing.

With this cowl they went for an open bottom like in the comics, which greatly increases actor comfort and breathability, but it also means the cowl nose has to be thinner and follow the shape of the actor's nose more closely. Even human beings with pointy nose don't have nose with a shape point. There is a certain flatness on the tip and bridge. Practically speaking, where Bale and Affleck were always slack jawed in the cowl breathing through their mouths, Pattinson is able to keep his mouth closed and maintain a clenched jaw when he wants.

Yeah, if you notice, I actually went back and shared an article where Dillon talks about some of those very influences you mentioned, the MMA fighters, for instance. More to my initial point, though, it's here where he likened the pointy nose shape of previous cowls to that a demon:

... it differentiates itself from previous cinema iterations where the cowl looked much more like the face of a demon with a pointy nose and a furrowed brow...

He then continues with the following:

Which, obviously with the cowl, he's trying to intimidate and scare when people look him in the eyes, and I think knowing that he was going to be standing around talking to Gordon and doing all the detective work, I think it might have seemed a bit incongruous to have had a cowl with all of this extra drama built into it.

So, the implication there is that the "pointy nose shape" and "furrowed brow" of previous cowls adds to their demonic appearance. And without completely eliminating that aspect from this one, there appears to have been some effort to reduce its severity in service of presenting Batman as more of an approachable team player.

With the comment on West's cowl, specifically the "square drawn over the nose", I just assumed that Dillon was referring to its influence on the visible stitching over Pattinson's nose, rather than the squarish shape. But perhaps this was a factor as well.

 

[DeadlyWest]

I love BTAS and Conroy in it. BTAS is about as perfect a Batman adaptation as possible for my personal tastes. However, a lot of Conroy's subsequent work has started to diminish him in my eyes a little. He seems a bit bored in the role and a lot of the performances are a little phoned in. Also the writing and interpretations aren't as sharp and nuanced and that may be part of the issue with those performances for me. Even with TNBA, Bruce starts to be written as an ******* and I'm not a fan of that sort of interpretation of a mature Batman. There is some stuff in the Arkham games that even with Conroy' s voice sound wrong and out-of-character to me.

I can agree it feels like he phoned it a little for TNBA and maybe even Arkham Asylum. But JL/JLU, Batman Beyond and Arkham City/Knight were top tier Conroy imo. His best is obviously still BTAS just by virtue of him also having to do a convincing Bruce Wayne on top of Batman, but I can't say I agree that a lot of his performances are phoned in. Some are, for definite. But the vast majority are excellent as far as I've seen. While there's some weird lines in the Arkham games admittedly, I don't really blame Conroy for that. That's the fault of the writer and the voice director ultimately. All Conroy can do is give the performance they want from him. It's like Hayden Christensen in the prequel Star Wars movies. He's a great actor, but we can't all be Ewan McGregor making George Lucas' cheeseball dialogue sound convincing.

 

[DKDetective]

Yeah, if you notice, I actually went back and shared an article where Dillon talks about some of those very influences you mentioned, the MMA fighters, for instance. More to my initial point, though, it's here where he likened the pointy nose shape of previous cowls to that a demon:



He then continues with the following:



So, the implication there is that the "pointy nose shape" and "furrowed brow" of previous cowls adds to their demonic appearance. And without completely eliminating that aspect from this one, there appears to have been some effort to reduce its severity in service of presenting Batman as more of an approachable team player.

With the comment on West's cowl, specifically the "square drawn over the nose", I just assumed that Dillon was referring to its influence on the visible stitching over Pattinson's nose, rather than the squarish shape. But perhaps this was a factor as well.

I've read the interview, I know what passages you were quoting, I just don't agree with your interpretation of what Dillon is saying. While he does mention the pointy nose in term of the overall demonic expression, he is principally talking about the furrowed brow and dramatic, angry expression built into the previous cowls. He talks about basing the sculpt around a skull to give a more neutral expression. Skulls don't have noses. A pointy nose does not necessarily create drama. If it did everyone would think I'm always angry with my schnoz.

Dillon discusses the nose more later on and it's clear that its design isn't really associated with the whole demon discussion. The nose, including its square shape, is very much inspired by Adam West, fighters and their nose strip, and Jake from Chinatown.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I've read the interview, I know what passages you were quoting, I just don't agree with your interpretation of what Dillon is saying. While he does mention the pointy nose in term of the overall demonic expression, he is principally talking about the furrowed brow and dramatic, angry expression built into the previous cowls. He talks about basing the sculpt around a skull to give a more neutral expression. Skulls don't have noses. A pointy nose does not necessarily create drama. If it did everyone would think I'm always angry with my schnoz.

I feel like it's both of these things working in tandem. In other words, that the sculpting technique was based on the architecture of the skull shouldn't negate there being a need to avoid a pointier nose shape in presenting a visage that's slightly less "demonic" looking. Think of it in the same context as modifying the ears or perhaps Daredevil's horns to achieve a similar purpose.

While I agree with you that an extremely pointy nose isn't drama-inducing, I think Dillon was just trying to say that, when combined with other physical aspects of the cowl, exaggerated features like the aforementioned make Batman stand out more.

Dillon discusses the nose more later on and it's clear that its design isn't really associated with the whole demon discussion. The nose, including its square shape, is very much inspired by Adam West, fighters and their nose strip, and Jake from Chinatown.

The desire to make Batman more approachable/less demonic in appearance could have still played a role in the cowl's design, even with these other factors being equally valid. He wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise.

 

[Invader Joker]

It's so weird to even compare Rob's Bruce Wayne take to other Bruce Wayne takes because here it's pretty explicit that Bruce Wayne doesn't even really exist as an entity, his scenes as Bruce Wayne are literally just Batman having had to take off the suit for some reason and being emotionally vulnerable in the process. The lines are completely blurred in a way that I don't even feel it's worth comparing because it's going for something really different.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Nothing Conroy does now will ever diminish the work he give us at his peak. His performances from 1992-2006 are out of this world fantastic. I would even say he was giving top tier stuff until around 2013. A 20+ year run of unblemished performances is pretty darn spectacular for any actor.

The problem is he started getting boring scripts, with bland interpretations of the character, positioning him a typical square jawed hero or overly dark avenger. DCAU Batman had nuance and was never the aggressive Bale type as seen in Batman: Arkham Knight, where he has the wheel of the Batmobile pressing on a thigs face. Plus, he was used to consistent direction from Andrea Romano and Bruce Timm. Nowadays he is working with voice directors who just expect Conroy to do Conroy, but the problem is if you don't establish barriers, most actors will over-do it.

The man is a legend and I will still welcome any performance he gives in the future. But if WB do use him, hopefully they give him some decent scripts to work with and remember what made his Batman so successful in the first place.

-------

As a sidenote, I just re-watched The Dark Knight Rises last night and WOW... I never quite realized how much mouth breathing Bale was doing in the cowl. In almost every scene his mouth is hanging open, even when he is just standing around doing nothing. Three movies and they couldn't improve the cowl for him?

 

[Gothamsknight]

Keaton and Pattinson are kinda battling it out for me. Both have that sexy/cool/mysterious factor in the cowl with very expressive eyes. But I mean, Keaton is Keaton. That's my childhood you're talking about right there. And his performance holds up totally. He gets a ton of credit for his role in making all of this possible and making Batman cool in the way that he did. Pattinson has a nostalgia wall to deal with that I'm not sure he can ever really break through for me. I also found his take on Bruce Wayne to fall kind of flat, even if that's not necessarily a fault of his.

Bale is at the top by default because to me he plays the most complete version of the character, and is easily the best Bruce Wayne for me which I've realized more than ever may be the most important aspect for me. He's the one I emotionally invested in the most, beyond just the cool factor that I acknowledge others had over him.

I really have no strong feelings about Batfleck at all. It's a thing that happened to me. Beyond not liking the take on the character, I just could never get past seeing Ben Affleck in a Batsuit. He was good overall in the role, I just had 0 personal attachment to it.

Same. I think Pattinson is a fantastic Batman, but he's not instantly the best for me yet. Bale is still my #1 favorite in all departments, both as Batman and Bruce Wayne. The only version to have a full and perfectly executed character arc too. Keaton I also think is still great, and I feel like Keaton managed to balance the "haunted" aspect of Bruce Wayne well with the public persona. Pattinsons Bruce Wayne left a lot to be desired for me, so I hope over time that changes and he can at least be a more recognizable Bruce Wayne. I know it's a different iteration, but his Bruce came across as unlikeable at times with the little time he was out of the suit.