Days of Future Past "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 2

[marvelrobbins]

Surely Bryan will dump his longtime costume designer in favor of whoever designed the costumes of FC.

Right, "child".

I wouldn't bet on that.

Apocalypse will likely have same costume designer that DOFP did.

Apocalypse is probally going to be first film since X2 where many same crew members return. That happens when you keep the same diectort:

 

[Rike]

I was being ironic, marvelrobbins.

 

[Majik1387]

Singer's shown himself to use and continue what works with movies, he pretty much made DoFP mainly about the FC casts and story than the original cast and story(one of his creations and movies that made him a Hollywood staple).
And Sammy Sheldon's work has a lot more versatility and creativity over Mingenbach.
And hey, he can also get the two to work together if need be as well.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Singer's shown himself to use and continue what works with movies, he pretty much made DoFP mainly about the FC casts and story than the original cast and story(one of his creations and movies that made him a Hollywood staple).
And Sammy Sheldon's work has a lot more versatility and creativity over Mingenbach.
And hey, he can also get the two to work together if need be as well.

If Bryan Singer didn't bring back Vaughn's costume designer for DOFP what
makes you think he would for Apocalypse. Remember this story could be darker
than DOFP.

Singer also brought his X2/Superman returns writers to write with Kinberg on
Apocalypse.On DOFP he brought in the production designer of first X-men film.
Mingenback on second gi joe moved away from black leather and toward some more Gi Joe costumes if you were familar with comics or animated show.

 

[The Guard]

But costumes serve a purpose. Whether basic functionality for the hero, symbolism, or a manifestation of characterization. I didn't think Jean's costume had any of those, because the movie didn't really know what to do with her.

I don't think Jean's costume looks silly. I think it's dumb. I just don't know the thought process behind it.

Curious. What purpose or functionality does her comic book costume serve? The green tights and gold boots, etc?

I get that the image of a phoenix symbolizes "phoenix" but that's not all that deep.

Jean's X3 costume mostly just looks like a dress. Do you think dresses are dumb or something?

 

[Mad Ones]

The comic book costume is highly symbolic. It's meant to look timeless and elevates her above the ordinary. The boots, gloves, and symbol are iconic now. The gold and the sash reflects status, and it just has the look of developing power on another level. Also, the changing colour symbolizes the Phoenix's current nature. The costume has actually come to mean a lot of things after its debut as well.

The lower half of Jean's X3 costume is fine. But I despise the bust area, the collar, and the sleeves. I also don't think the colour looks good with her. It's just a big puzzle for me, design wise. I don't know what it's trying to say (power? evil? functionality? edgy?). It fails at everything for me.

 

[Majik1387]

While the Phoenix costume is iconic, it wouldn't bother me if we didn't see it in live action. The colors, the way they change, and the insignia on the chest is what I find most iconic and relating to the character that needs to be adapted to live action.

 

[Mad Ones]

It's kind of funny that the costume we ended up getting was the complete opposite of the comics. The comic book costume was simple and elegant, while the movie one was confusing and had way too much going on. You don't need to completely copy the comic books to retain that simpleness and that elegance.

I'm a fan of the gloves and boots myself, but the Phoenix insignia and proper shade of red should have at least been there! Like I said earlier, there was a lot of potential wasted due to a lack of direction and studio laziness.

 

[psylockolussus]

Yes the audience got that she turned into the Phoenix but the Phoenix insignia would have been cheesey. I think the Phoenix fire visual effect would have been enough.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I don't think it would have been any cheesier than her necklace or jacket in X2. In fact that could have taken the place of the insignia.

 

[psylockolussus]

Those things in X2 weren't that noticable.

 

[Majik1387]

I don't think it would have been any cheesier than her necklace or jacket in X2. In fact that could have taken the place of the insignia.

This is what I was referring to. I was not expecting a black turtleneck shirt with the gold phoenix symbol.

Her wearing her X2 necklace and X2 jacket, or having her X3 jacket with a phoenix on the back would have been just fine.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Exactly. It didn't have to be over the top just a better homage than what we ended up getting.

 

[X-Maniac]

The X3 costume could have been better, but I never felt it stood out as terrible.

The V-shaped cut in the decolletage of the coat/dress creates something similar to the Phoenix shape on the chest of the comic costume. The tails of the dress/coat flapped outwards like the comic book sash when she was stood at Alcatraz on top of that burning wreckage. There were nods there to the comic costume. Similarly, the tendrils of water that reached up around the island were a nod to the comic book image of the Phoenix raptor's claws and wings. There was SOME thought going on.

However, I agree that seeing her materialise a costume would have a good way to show something more iconic that stood out more, but sadly the story didn't really demand that she stood out more. She was portrayed as a lost soul, an unstable woman who was with Magneto, not a confident goddess.

 

[Havok83]

It's kind of funny that the costume we ended up getting was the complete opposite of the comics. The comic book costume was simple and elegant, while the movie one was confusing and had way too much going on. You don't need to completely copy the comic books to retain that simpleness and that elegance.

I'm a fan of the gloves and boots myself, but the Phoenix insignia and proper shade of red should have at least been there! Like I said earlier, there was a lot of potential wasted due to a lack of direction and studio laziness.

Confusing with alot going on? I thought her costume in X3 was pretty simple. It was a red trenchcoat. What was confusing about that? I thought it was too simple. The design was great but I wish there was more color variation instead of one shade of red. I wish there was some black in there

 

[CB Fan]

Confusing with alot going on? I thought her costume in X3 was pretty simple. It was a red trenchcoat. What was confusing about that? I thought it was too simple. The design was great but I wish there was more color variation instead of one shade of red. I wish there was some black in there

Yeah I don't know what the hell Mad Ones is talking about:

There is nothing confusing about this at all its a great design and Famke looks great in it. If another color were added I would think maybe make the corset gold to really give a nod to the comics.

 

[CB Fan]

The X3 costume could have been better, but I never felt it stood out as terrible.

The V-shaped cut in the decolletage of the coat/dress creates something similar to the Phoenix shape on the chest of the comic costume. The tails of the dress/coat flapped outwards like the comic book sash when she was stood at Alcatraz on top of that burning wreckage. There were nods there to the comic costume. Similarly, the tendrils of water that reached up around the island were a nod to the comic book image of the Phoenix raptor's claws and wings. There was SOME thought going on.

Never really saw that but now that you've pointed those design choices out I cant not see it.

 

[Mad Ones]

Ugh, the asymmetrical collar, the weird fabric hiding her cleavage, the unnecessary belt. It's not a trench coat or a dress. I don't know what it is! This is much better:

And just for fun

 

[Rike]

Scarlet Witch or Phoenix?

Crap. Just like that movie's Phoenix. Heck, just like the movie itself.

 

[psylockolussus]

Ugh, the asymmetrical collar, the weird fabric hiding her cleavage, the unnecessary belt. It's not a trench coat or a dress. I don't know what it is! This is much better:

And just for fun

These outfits look great in comics/videogames/animations. But could you really picture Famke Jannsen wearing those?

And there's really no need for the Phoenix insignia other than staying true to the comic's look especially if they got the Phoenix flame vfx right.

 

[Majik1387]

And there's really no need for the Phoenix insignia other than staying true to the comic's look especially if they got the Phoenix flame vfx right.

Wrong.

 

[X-Maniac]

Scarlet Witch or Phoenix?

Clearly, it has elements of both. The writers hinted (on an X-Men site that's gone now) that they had envisaged that Phoenix was given one of Wanda's outfits by Magneto. In addition, Chris Claremont calls the Alcatraz incident M-Day in the novelisation because of the number of mutants who were cured by the soldiers (being slightly similar to Wanda's reality-altering 'no more mutants' reducing the numbers in the comic book M-Day).

At that point, there weren't going to be any more X-Men movies, just Wolverine and Magneto spin-offs/prequels, so they were throwing a lot of ideas into that movie because they thought it was the end. That's why we had Beast, Angel, Psylocke, Multiple Man, Callisto, Morlocks, Juggernaut all in one movie.

Not defending it as such, but explaining why they did what they did.

 

[X-Maniac]

These outfits look great in comics/videogames/animations. But could you really picture Famke Jannsen wearing those?

And there's really no need for the Phoenix insignia other than staying true to the comic's look especially if they got the Phoenix flame vfx right.

It all depends how/why she (or whoever) decided on the name Phoenix. A green or red aerobics leotard and gold boots might be pushing it a bit, but they can adapt the costume in some form.

In the original timeline, Phoenix was the name of her second persona. For some reason, lol...

In the altered timeline, they can change that.

I always envisaged that they would explain at some point - even if they did another movie set after X3 - that they found Jean was tapping into some kind of cosmic force as a power source. It would explain why her powers were off the charts and hard to control.

I also thought it would be cool if the Fantastic Four reboot showed the F4 going into space to search for that cosmic force, as a way of linking them to the X-Men franchise. But with the F4 reboot coming before X-Men Apocalypse, that seems unlikely.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I think that if the the traditional costume would look over the top they could have had Rachels and added the phoenix insignia made with fire instead of actual fabric.

Or they could have went with the Mystique route and made her naked in her reveal scene with a swirl of fire consuming her body.

 

[psylockolussus]

There's something very dominatrix about this costume that it would look silly on Famke. I think Fire/Phoenix aura is enough to showcase the Phoenix and as for the clothing, something that is not very costumey should be enough.