Season 1, Episode 10 "Virtue of the Vicious" (USE SPOILER TAGS!)

Discussion in 'The Punisher' started by flickchick85, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. flickchick85

    flickchick85 Loose Seal

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    EPISODE 10: "Virtue of the Vicious"


    Use spoiler tags when discussing the events of any future episodes.
     
    #1
  2. Mike Murdock

    Mike Murdock Well-Known Member

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    I too have seen and am a fan of Rashomon. For the most part, that's the big thing this episode. The side plot seems to resolve in a tragic ending and the flashback style pads it out, but there's also a sense of mystery and intrigue with what exactly happened. Also, it did advance the plot as Fran figures out Russo is involved. Four and a Half Stars.
     
    #2
  3. KRYPTON INC.

    KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    The Rashamon thing actually felt unnecessary to me. Plus... I thought Karen was unarmed? Good tense stuff though. Lord knows what Frank does from here on out.
     
    #3
  4. warhorse78

    warhorse78 Well-Known Member

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    She grabbed a gun on the floor from one of the dead guards when Frank was fighting Luis.
     
    #4
  5. strangelove

    strangelove you discussed me

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    "Rashomon" episode fits on The Punisher episode line up like a bullet to the head. In most other shows it feels like a filler but here it was actually a breath of fresh air.
     
    #5
  6. Speed Force

    Speed Force Your phone's charged

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    I liked the concept of this episode like peeling back the layers.

    Didn't think about the Rashoman similarities till I saw others mention it.

    Glad the subplot with Lewis is over and now we can get back to the Agent Orange stuff as the season is gearing up towards its conclusion
     
    #6
  7. BestGirl

    BestGirl Chillin' on Dragonstone

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    I couldn't stand Lewis, O'Connor, and their subplot so I was ecstatic when Lewis finally wasted himself.

    The editing for this episode was really clever, though. I actually thought I had skipped an episode at first.
     
    #7
  8. MurkeNyou

    MurkeNyou Well-Known Member

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    One of my top favorite episodes this season, that stairway exchange was great. That bullet graze snapped Frank sober.
     
    #8
  9. Lencho01

    Lencho01 Shazoogle! Shazoogle!

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    I’m happy that things are done with Lewis and basically they all know about Russo.

    I guess that politician wasn’t fully anti-gun. But I still think that conversation with Russo didn’t really work.

    That elevator scene is probably the only time I ever felt any sort of sexual tension between Frank and Karen.
     
    #9
  10. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Well-Known Member

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    The zipline stunt was really cool. I wish we got a bit more of things like that. Frank having all these contingency plans and exit strategies.

    Once again more hints of Karen/Frank.

    Would've preferred Frank could've figured out Russo being dirty without getting shot in the head for the second time.
     
    #10
  11. Iceman

    Iceman Daffy Duck Vs The Joker

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    Loved this episode, one of my favourites.
     
    #11
  12. legendkillin

    legendkillin Well-Known Member

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    I thought he was lame. I get what they were going for, but the actors face annoyed me.
     
    #12
  13. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Well-Known Member

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    His confrontation with Frank was sort of lame and underwhelming as well.

    I think it would've been better if they turned it into a modified version of Do Not Fall in New York. Where it's basically a mercy killing and Frank having to put down a rabid dog. It's a dog that was loved and was an actual person, but sometimes putting down the dog is the righteous thing to do.
     
    #13
  14. righthooksrus86

    righthooksrus86 Well-Known Member

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    I actually liked the ending of the Lewis story arc but I would've definitely enjoyed more of a Do Not Fall in New York type ending.
     
    #14
  15. BestGirl

    BestGirl Chillin' on Dragonstone

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    I couldn't abide his quavery voice.
     
    #15
  16. Babillygunn

    Babillygunn Tag team champion

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    I felt that having Frank encourage Lewis to kill himself seemed a little off putting.
     
    #16
  17. harlequinade

    harlequinade Little Mermaid

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    Best episode of the season for me, just stunning!
     
    #17
  18. dmcreif

    dmcreif Well-Known Member

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    Other than that, I don't think there's any romantic interest between them. Frank isn't going to move on so long as he's mourning his family. And Karen is still mourning Matt, so there's that to be considered. Honestly, that elevator moment to me felt like a moment that was thrown in to tease the "Kastle" crowd.

    I'm honestly still surprised that people think Frank should have a romance with Karen, when it's pretty clear that there's no way Frank could start a relationship with Karen without it being character assassination for him. I think Frank is too broken and trapped in the past to find a new relationship, and it would undermine his whole character if he were to found a new girlfriend to actually love. His revenge and drive are based on his love for his family and regret, that's why having him forming a relationship with Karen would just wreck the show as a whole. Frank is supposed to be hurt, broken and lonely. Karen is just trying to reach out and help him anyway she can, and she's not going to take interest in Frank while she's still mourning Matt. Even though there's clear romantic undertones, I never thought of it as a possibility.
     
    #18
  19. harlequinade

    harlequinade Little Mermaid

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    Karen is his "after".
     
    #19
  20. dmcreif

    dmcreif Well-Known Member

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    She talks a lot about being lonely and she seems desperate for any sort of interaction with someone who isn't her boss or Foggy. She treated Frank like a familiar face and immediately rushed in to hug him as if he was basically the only thing she had left from the good old days.

    If Kastle people honestly believe Frank Castle and Karen Page are gonna end up like Olicity on Arrow, then they have a huge misunderstanding of this character. Karen works well being just being Frank's confidante and sometimes ally. Regardless of how people might feel about the whole of Karen getting moved into Ben's job, the journalist job does mean Karen can be more than Matt's love interest.
     
    #20
  21. harlequinade

    harlequinade Little Mermaid

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    Well you can have your opinion obviously but I will ship them forever :) I never ship anyone but these two are exceptions
     
    #21
  22. dmcreif

    dmcreif Well-Known Member

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    Weird fact, but I keep thinking that if Matt had survived Midland Circle instead of "dying" in The Defenders, it would be Matt, not Frank, who would be rescuing Karen from Lewis. Like, either, he rescues her as Daredevil, then changes out into his suit and tie to be with her when Brett questions her. Or alternately, Matt would come with Karen to the hotel as Matt, and would have gotten Karen out of there before the bombs went off. And he'd then fight Lewis in the hallway. And whether Matt would have talked Lewis into surrendering, or he'd still kill himself, I don't know.
     
    #22
  23. Spider-Aziz

    Spider-Aziz Raul Boston's Dish Gaunt

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    [blackout]I'm pleased Matt is presumed dead instead of butting in.[/blackout]
     
    #23
  24. dmcreif

    dmcreif Well-Known Member

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    As I said, I imagine that if Matt had been alive, he would have probably beaten up Lewis before he got a chance to hurt Karen. He would have certainly insisted on coming along with Karen for the interview for her protection. It's also possible the hotel episode would never have happened because Matt would have talked Karen out of doing the interview. Which would certainly interfere with Dinah and Frank figuring out Russo's duplicity.
     
    #24

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