Discussion in 'Luke Cage' started by Kane52630, Sep 29, 2016.
Not my favorite episode this season. It was a bit of a clunky episode. The fight with Cage and Diamondback was fine. But then the rest of the episode sort of limped to the end. I feel like they put it on too big of a cliffhanger for the ending.
Yeah Bobby Fish found the files with evidence to help Luke, but that's not exactly a get out of jail free card. Dr. Burstein now has Luke Cage's blood brother as a test subject. Mariah and Shades are now fully in power in Harlem with no one to stop them.
It was just awkward to me to have that speech for Luke Cage then drag him back to prison and all the bad guys are back in power.
IMHO this is problematic because the next time we see Luke Cage is Defenders. How much of this can get resolved there? It just seemed like a clunky way to end the season. I kind of feel that Daredevil had the right idea. Daredevil's fully established and stopped Kingpin. Kingpin is jail, but Kingpin may be down but he's not out. I think they went with too many cliffhangers for a first season.
Defenders basically better begin with Matt Murdock getting Luke Cage pardoned using the files Bobby Fish found.
Pretty much agree with your assessment. As I said in the general thread the final fight was terrible. Just felt so awkward and terribly shot. The minute they started the Luke chant I was like "really?" in one of those cringe that's so bad kinda ways.
I completely agree with the ending also. I was disappointed overall that with Defenders right around the corner outside of Luke being in Jessica Jones we got no crossover from anyone in the Defenders.
Really thought they botched a opportunity at the end of this episode to bring in Murdock to take on Luke's case or at least Jessica given the cops involvement or Claire's even referencing her as his "girlfriend".
Then the romance with Claire at the end really felt forced. Does this nurse just drop her pants for every superhero she runs across that is a guy?
Then how quickly Luke jumping from Jessica to the cop lady, and now to the Claire character. So the "love/romance" didn't really work for me.
Thought what they were pushing with the cop earlier in the season worked better and then for her to just brush off him doing the coffee line with Claire right in front of her towards the end felt out of place.
Especially seeing just a few episodes earlier she was showing flashbacks of having feelings towards him.
Really thought they were handling that Claire stuff differently earlier in the season when she called him out on his coffee stuff. Figured they were going to drop it after that scene when she said "I am not sleeping with you".
Then like you said nothing ended up resolved in the end. Really sloppy how the Mariah ends up in control with Shades. Even though I liked the actors and their portrayal. Everything towards the end felt sloppy and botched.
Not to mention his cousins final suit to fight in looked ridiculous. Nothing got resolved other than a few deaths. Really felt like the worst ending out of all the Netflix series so far.
Something else probably most here would know that I am probably out of the loop on. I am pretty sure that the actress playing Mariah played a similar if not the same character in Civil War in the same position as her as well.
The one who claimed Tony killed her son. Felt like she addressed Tony as a state senator in the movie and was playing one in this series as well. Not sure they are the same character but felt like they were.
I really thought they missed a chance to at least mention her dead son from what happened in Age Of Ultron during that to add some more depth to her character.
Also another minor thing but how many Thor references do we need in these series? I feel like him and his hammer are brought up in reference more than any other character out of the Avengers from the MCU in these Netflix or TV series.
Alfre Woodard played a completely different character in Civil War. Same actress, different character. In Civil War, she was a grieving mother who worked for the state department, and her son died during the Ultron incident. He was over there doing humanitarian work.
Ah well they really missed an opportunity to add a little more depth to that character then. All I could remember from Civil War was her line to Tony and that she worked for the state. Didn't remember them using a character name in the movie so I assumed she was the same character.
Claire has 2 love interests (Matt and Luke) and hasn't sleep with anyone yet, Luke slept with at least 3 women (Jessica, Misty and the married woman in early JJ S1) and had Claire as his latest love interest. But sure let's use the condescending phrase "drop her pants" to describe Claire even though we've never seen her "drop her pants", while for Luke we can use a more gentle term "jumping from Jessica to the cop lady", even though it's clearly indicated that he had a habit of sleeping with women he just met for the first time.
Regarding the Luke/ Claire romance I think they want to drop the Jessica/ Luke pairing, since there was criticism that a unstable white woman killed a black man's wife but still had sexual/ romantic relationship with him and was forgiven by him).
Except Luke still technically never forgave Jessica Jones. They also revealed that Reva had some pretty dark secrets she kept from him.
I'm still confused about Reva's connection with Kilgrave. How did that start?
Not disputing Luke's womanizing as you said which was already well established. I am more in reference to Claire's meeting Murdock and suddenly being in love with him then introduce her to Cage and suddenly in love with him.
Maybe I am mistaken since I haven't watched season 1 of DD in a long time but didn't Murdock and her sleep together?
As for the "drop the pants" comment. It was meant as a sarcastic funny remark about the character meeting said superhero and trying to get with him and then meeting the next superhero she is helping and the same thing happening.
Mainly pointing out a odd character trait they are establishing with what I feel like is a pretty strong female character and how easily she falls for these guys.
I would say it's more widely accepted that most men are womanizing buffoons in most shows when it comes to a main character especially when it's established early on anyways.
That goes for both Cage & Murdock who have went through their fair share of women in their series and were both established in that way early on.
Really think it does a disservice to Claire's character to have her doting on half of the Defenders she is trying to save according to her character this season when she says she wants to help people with special abilities..
What's next she's helping Iron Fist out as his nurse and suddenly is his love interest too? I mean give me other love interest's one that doesn't ultimately have a romantic connection to most of the heroes your establishing. That is all I am saying.
Claire & Cage's relationship felt forced and unnecessary to the overall story to me. You didn't need their relationship to be like that to have her help him in the end when she was already established in the other series as the go to nurse for heroes.
I just didn't see the development with Cage & Claire I would have liked just my opinion. I didn't like the poof* there she was mid way through this season with no back history with Cage other than her saving him in JJ thanks to JJ. Now suddenly they are falling for each other.
I probably wouldn't have had the problem I did with it had she been introduced earlier in the season or signs planted in JJ with Cage.
At least with the cop you had a through line from the opening episode to build off of. Her relationship to pops and Cage after their one night stand, the similarities to his relationship with Jessica with her being a cop like figure from his last relationship (none of which were touched on as being similar which is also a missed chance), and all of their tension throughout the season.
Also I hope what your saying at the end isn't the case. Now that Luke knows what happened with his dead wife. I would hope to see that built on more come JJ season 2 instead of the racial cop out your suggesting they want to do. Especially given the details we learn in this season.
I thought the Claire thing was a slow burn. Don't forget y'all binged a 13 episode season in a day so things are going to feel "forced".
I didn't have a problem at all with the Claire Temple relationship. They have a precedence for the romance in the comics. Do I think maybe Claire is hypocritical for bailing out of a romance with Matt and diving into one with Luke when circumstances are a little different. yeah a little, but it wasn't a big deal for me.
I think my bigger problems is we still don't really know what Reva and Kilgrave's connections are. And the season ends with Luke Cage going back to jail
I kinda feel like these things happen in real life lol you meet ppl in life and sparks fly. Just because we watch these and think about all of the different relationships and connections between these characters doesn't necessarily mean the characters themselves are doing the same. Luke was clearly over the Jessica thing, the Misty fling was made clear to be a 1 night thing, and at the end of the day they're all adults. Adults hook up lol I didn't really have a problem with that.
I can understand what you guys are saying but I think those feelings might be heightened by the fact that we are "omnipotent viewers" into this world and aren't thinking the same way the characters probably are.
Again my only issue is that Claire sort of rejected Matt for silly reasons and ends up starting a relationship with Luke Cage, where the same problems exist.
Also, she and Matt barely even had a romantic relationship. They never slept with each other or had coffee as it were. There was clearly a mutual attraction. They did kiss, but that's all. The relationship never really developed all that much. Then Matt started dating Karen anyway, even though nothing happened there either other than kissing.
I just feel like there wasn't sufficient build-up. You can call it a "slow burn," but I felt like it kind of came out of nowhere.
Also, given some of the stuff with Reva here, they need to address the Luke/Jessica thing in Defenders in some way. They cannot just leave it as is.
I hope he and Jessica can have a long talk in Defenders about Reva and everything.
Considering that everything that happened with the two and his forgiving her was mind control thing.
But first they need to get Luke Cage the **** out of ****ing Seagate. I mean seriously, c'mon Marvel.
Yeah I wasn't a fan of that ending either.
Anyone else a little annoyed by the random boxing reference in the final fight as well? The random Rocky cheesy flashback?
Diamondback has to be by far the worst villain of the Netflix universe. I thought the guy playing Mariah cousin was more threatening than him throughout the series until he was killed off just by the aspect of how he was attacking Cage.
I mean the fight sucked anyways but then you toss in this as Poetic Chaos said "Rocky 5" flashback with the fight followed by the cheesy chanting of Luke at the end.
I liked a lot of aspects of the season but this series probably had the most problems throughout the season and most glaring problems out of all the Netflix series.
I am not a comic reader of Cage and maybe the Claire thing was a thing in comics but it was handled terribly.
I think this show in general much like Jessica Jones could have used and probably needed to use some of the JJ character sparingly like how Cage was used in her series. Instead of cramming Claire down our throats for half a season.
Still wouldn't have helped some of the bad action scenes or the terrible writing in the final episode or some of the problems with the final villain but it would have been an improvement when dealing with the Reva stuff.
It also would have helped maybe give us some resolution to the finale of JJ and where these two stand like others are saying heading into Defenders. Now we got to spend time in Defenders with not only getting Cage out of prison and explaining that but with the whole JJ dynamic and how that gets resolved so they can work together along with the stuff he learned about Reva.
Unless they decide to just brush all that story under the rug for the sake of putting the Defenders together.
She had footage of the experiments performed on him on a flash drive. Which given her involvement with the experiments at the prison, she was obviously involved in some real shady stuff.
episode 13 might be the best written since episode 4. glad they went out with a very great episode.
the fight was diappointing though. but I don't care for superficial stuff like that anyway
I don't think they'll have Luke/ Jessica in Defenders. I don't know whether Luke/Jessica is that much more legit in the comics than Luke/Claire, I think they have valid reasons to not have Jessica here: (1) to minimize a white actress in a pretty significant role and (2) like I said above after JJ there was criticism that a white woman killed a black man's wife and still had a sexual relationship with him without telling him the truth (which is unhealthy and borderline abuse).
So if they forego Luke/Jessica in Defenders then I can totally see them sweep Luke/Reva/Jessica under the rug.
Luke and Jessica are married with a daughter in the comics. But, as we all know, the MCU doesn't always follow the same path as the comics.
As for my thoughts on this episode,
I can't say that I cared for it very much. I really enjoyed the series as a whole, and I'd dare say it's my favorite Marvel Netflix series to date, but the finale fell flat for me.
The final battle felt a bit anti-climactic, and all that unraveled afterwards just didn't hit the mark for me, personally.
Regarding the Luke/Claire relationship, I felt like they hinted at a bit of attraction between them in Jessica Jones, so I don't necessarily mind them expanding on that here. I even think that Luke and Claire have decent chemistry. However, I felt that Luke had more chemistry with Misty in this series, and I would have liked to see them explore that further. I understand they may be keeping them separate so they can do the traditional Misty/Danny pairing down the road, but I felt that Colter and Missick clicked very well together and could have been a special pairing. As I said above, the MCU doesn't have to be beholden to the comics.
OK but those were when Kilgrave was a kid. Realistically, she shouldn't have been involved with those.
It still doesn't explain how she encountered Kilgrave and how Kilgrave found out she had that footage.
I didn't say she was involved. But Kilgrave wasn't the only person on the flashdrive and I imagine his parents weren't experimenting him on their own dime, they obviously worked for someone. So maybe whoever Reva worked for got the files on the expiriments or maybe it was the same people that were running experiments on those kids and the one at the prison.
As for how Kilgrave found out, who knows. But he did his damnedest to wipe his past from existence so he probably went after the company his parents worked for which i'd guess was the same one Reva was working for and i'm guessing at the time he was doing that Reva was working for them or had just quit. So it's really not a leap to think Kilgrave systemically found out who may have seen the footage or had access to it and murdered them I mean they can't lie to him if he tells them not to. Reva just happened to take information when she quit and moved to NY with Luke. Or who knows maybe she never quit and still worked for them when she got murdered and Luke just didn't know she still worked there
I don't know, some of that is a bit too convenient to me. I guess I was disappointed that it was never addressed.