Born Again Season 1, Episode 4: "Sic Semper Systema" (SPOILERS)

[Dr. Evil]

How delusional are these cops who idolize Castle? They don't know what his policy on police is, so they suspect that he's pro police and anti-vigilante. We know that Castle is no fan of the NYPD, but he knows which cop good and which cop is bad and would take different approaches depending on who it is. We saw in season 2 of his series how he felt about Brett Mahoney and most likely he would have done the same to Misty Knight and Eddy Costa (the cop from Jessica Jones). He would feel the same way about Costa as he did about Mahoney and likely as he would have about Misty: a bit of an antagonist, but someone he would knock out in a fight rather than kill.

However, those cops in this series do not know that. They assume that he is pro police and anti-vigilante. They idolize him without knowing what his true motives are. Whoever killed Hector Ayala (probably Cole North, who has not been introduced yet), is under the assumption that Castle would have done the same. Castle would not have done the same. Castle would have most likely have had the same dynamic with Ayala as he did with Matt in Season Two of the Netflix series.

These cops are in for a rude awakening as soon as Frank is ready to go.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

How delusional are these cops who idolize Castle? They don't know what his policy on police is, so they suspect that he's pro police and anti-vigilante. We know that Castle is no fan of the NYPD, but he knows which cop good and which cop is bad and would take different approaches depending on who it is. We saw in season 2 of his series how he felt about Brett Mahoney and most likely he would have done the same to Misty Knight and Eddy Costa (the cop from Jessica Jones). He would feel the same way about Costa as he did about Mahoney and likely as he would have about Misty: a bit of an antagonist, but someone he would knock out in a fight rather than kill.

However, those cops in this series do not know that. They assume that he is pro police and anti-vigilante. They idolize him without knowing what his true motives are. Whoever killed Hector Ayala (probably Cole North, who has not been introduced yet), is under the assumption that Castle would have done the same. Castle would not have done the same. Castle would have most likely have had the same dynamic with Ayala as he did with Matt in Season Two of the Netflix series.

These cops are in for a rude awakening as soon as Frank is ready to go.

As a long time Punisher fan, I'm glad that Marvel is doing something about it. I've said multiple times that I hate how the Skull has been coopted by right wingers and cops. I have a half sleeve of the Punisher so I'm constantly fighting with these dumb****s about it when they think I'm aligning with them.

 

[RiXi]

- Couldn't it have been a Skrull?
...
-No.

 

[BoredGuy]

As a long time Punisher fan, I'm glad that Marvel is doing something about it. I've said multiple times that I hate how the Skull has been coopted by right wingers and cops. I have a half sleeve of the Punisher so I'm constantly fighting with these dumb****s about it when they think I'm aligning with them.

Man I feel ya
I have a Cap Shield tattoo and people think its much more "Rah-Rah-Yay-America" than I intend it
Read a damn comic, ya Maga-nerds

 

[Spider-Fan]

I thought it was a great episode. Yes, it is mainly a setup episode and doesn't advance the plot a lot. But it's a wonderful character driven episode about examining one's true nature. That Matt/Frank scene was great, watching Fisk's soul day during these useless meetings was hilarious, etc. This has been a great season so far

 

[DyeLorean]

- Couldn't it have been a Skrull?
...
-No.

It feels like they're blatantly saying "Yeahhh hell no, this isn't that kind of show".

 

[BlackFox]

Agreed
The "Built This City" bits had me and my fiancé in stitches, I didn't know Fisk could be so relatable and hilarious
"For our next song..." "No that's alright."

And Frank and Matt's conversations never fail to deliver

I am quite intrigued to see how the Muse and "Fake Punisher" stories coalesce by the end

I genuinely lol'ed at the Latvian's singing the same song in their native language and Fisk shaking to control himself. Caught me off guard as I didnt see it coming after the school scene which was funny itself in its own right but didnt see it coming back as the joke. This show is light on the laughter but moments like that stand out.

The whole Frank and Matt scene was worth the build up and lived up to the wait of them meeting again. Matt knows leaving the empty shell casing on the side will irk Frank and get him in the game eventually as well, they both know how to play each other. Such fantastic writing in that scene.

Not stopped thinking about this episode today which is only a good sign, this season is shaping up to be something really good and worthy of the DD name which is all you can ask considering the break and switch to Disney which always has you worried but this and D&W shows they are willing to make changes where needed for more adult material.

 

[BoredGuy]

- Couldn't it have been a Skrull?
...
-No.

It feels like they're blatantly saying "Yeahhh hell no, this isn't that kind of show".

These are the types of legal questions that become interesting in the world of Marvel
How reliable can video evidence be when there are shape-shifters hangin around??

But yeah, that would probably be a better fit for She-Hulk rather than Daredevil

 

[Lily Adler]

- Couldn't it have been a Skrull?
...
-No.

Skrulls are the new wizards

 

[Still Wynning]

You can call me crazy all you want, but I actually enjoy this iteration more than the Netflix show (which I also loved.)

I don’t typically like legal dramas because I work as a lawyer all day and I don’t want work drama invading my recreation time. But this season on this show has been surprisingly accurate in how court proceedings work. The only knock I’d give it would be the fact that Hector’s trial was scheduled way too quickly.
But the depiction of the misdemeanor court and the petty theft case was crazy accurate. That’s actually how all of that would have gone down, from Matt meeting his client and then going in and finding a prosecutor who is only marginally invested in the case and getting a “good deal” by sheer charisma. That’s how those cases work. And the moral dilemma that Matt feels in having a client who is on probation but who is innocent, for whom staying in jail for 10 days is a “gift” despite doing absolutely nothing wrong—that’s all accurate of what you deal with in misdemeanor criminal courts. And that’s why that case wears on Matt just as much as White Tiger getting gunned down despite his acquittal. It’s all broken down justice.

This is brilliant storytelling. I know that people just want to see fights and dust-ups, but this is a layered story that tackles the “why” of Daredevil that does beyond the silly, superficial “his dad was killed and he has superpowered senses, so he can.”

I love that we are seeing Matt the man and lawyer here. I just wish that they’d lean more into Matt’s faith, which is also one of his key motivators.

Apparently, most of episodes two through seven of the original version, which existed as episodes one through 6 of just a full-on reboot before they were reworked to more directly connect it back to the Netflix show, was written by people who used to work in the justice system, which explains why a lot of the goings-on and the terminology is so accurate and true to life. I figured that was the case, since a lot of what characters were saying was way too specific and confidently worded to not be real and written by somebody who wasn’t speaking from experience.

Reading what you said and watching the episodes that have been released thus far, knowing that episode one, which was considered by a lot of viewers to be the weakest and weirdly paced, was done by the new showrunners and most of episodes two through seven, which so far have had a lot of great and well-written legal and interpersonal drama that a lot of people who’ve watched have praised, was done by the original showrunners before the retooling, makes me a little bit worried that the legal drama is not going to be as strongly written in future seasons as it was in this season and/or pushed to the side to make way for more of the vigilante/punch-em-up/interpersonal type stuff. I think that would be a mistake because that stuff has been some of my favorite Daredevil drama in all of the series.

I really hope that’s not the case and that I’m proven wrong.

 

[Spider-Fan]

just one criticism, where the **** is Daredevil! Also Can evil kingpin return soon please.

I think we are close to it happening. Next week, we get 2 episodes. Episode 5 may be another setup episode, but I am expecting by episode 6 next week, the action will arrive

 

[Venom 1988]

According to the director of this episode, pre-revamp the scene with the Punisher was filmed originally for episode 7. They later decided it would be better to bring up earlier and did a few reshoots/ADR to make it fit with this episode. So if this episode was originally episode 3, we wouldn't have seen Frank for another 4 episodes.

 

[DeadlyWest]

Wilson Fisk clearly on the verge of sheer uncomfortableness while children sing "We Built This City" at him is quite possibly the funniest scene in the entire MCU and I'm using zero hyperbole. Executed to perfection, as was the Frank/Matt scene which should hopefully go without saying

(The fact that the only man Matthew Murdock can seemingly find comfort in shared loss with anymore is Frank goddamn Castle of all people is raw as hell)

Also Newton Brothers need to be paid another truckload of money for the amount they're respecting the OG Paesano theme. The entire rendition at the end gave me chills

 

[squeekness]

Really liked the scene with Matt and Frank!

Yeah, that was very well done and filled with genuine, raw emotion. Emmy worthy.

 

[Adrian Chase]

I have never hidden the fact that I hated the first two episodes and was bored with the third (bad, bad writing!).

This is the first episode that I liked, let's hope it is a good sign for the continuation of the show.
I have heard from a couple of friends who have already seen the show that the fifth is the best so I'm very curious for next week.

 

[kguillou]

You know i just rewatched the Frank/Matt scene and while overall its excellent, you could definitely tell it was reworked/re-edited. Matt comes there to talk to Frank about the bullet at first but then the conversation turns into something else. I dont think in the original version of that scene Matt came there to talk to Frank about corrupt cops using his symbol, i think originally he came to Frank for something else and the dialogue got reworked.

 

[squeekness]

You know i just rewatched the Frank/Matt scene and while overall its excellent, you could definitely tell it was reworked/re-edited. Matt comes there to talk to Frank about the bullet at first but then the conversation turns into something else. I dont think in the original version of that scene Matt came there to talk to Frank about corrupt cops using his symbol, i think originally he came to Frank for something else and the dialogue got reworked.

At least they got a great result either way.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I am not really trying to pick out these kinds of things. If I notice them, I notice them. But to date, I think the show does a good job at flowing on its own. I am not consciously thinking about the reshoots every 2 seconds or anything

 

[Dr. Evil]

So did Wilson Fisk ever deal with an alien invasion in the comics? If not, I wonder how MCU Fisk would handle something like that. I did watch Captain America Brave New World (and out of the four Captain America movies, it's the worst one of the four by far, but it's not a terrible movie) and I am led to think if dealt with an alien invasion, Ross would put aside his issues with Steve Rogers Avengers to aid them via his military connections or he puts any issues with Banner he might still have aside. I also recall that despite his hatred of superheroes too, that if it came time for an alien invasion, Baron Zemo would temporarily align with the heroes he hates.

So this leads me to think about what would happen if New York City was invaded by aliens while Fisk was mayor. How does he react? Does he go back on his "no vigilantes/no superheroes stance" and end the ban? Or does he double down on the ban? I would think that he would try to ask for US Military assistance before he has to rely on vigilantes/superheroes.

I suspect that we'll never know how Fisk would react to a possible alien invasion.

 

[Lily Adler]

Yeah how come NYC wasn't decimated in the Defenders shows?

 

[Venom 1988]

So did Wilson Fisk ever deal with an alien invasion in the comics?

He was mayor during the King in Black event. While he outlawed vigilantes, he assembled his own team of Thunderbolts to deal with the invasion.

 

[inomilan]

I will say, as a nitpick, I wish this wasn’t called “Born Again” as this has very little to do with that classic story, which I firmly believe to be the best Marvel comic story ever published and also Frank Miller’s best work.

This season is reminding me more of Chip Zdarsky’s run. All we would need would be Elodi Yung’s Elektra coming back and taking the Daredevil mantle to fill the gap while Matt deals with his crisis.

I agree, I think they obviously just chose this title for the show to get fans excited even though we know they kinda did Born Again already with the 3rd season. This season feels like a mix of Soule + Zdarsky + Brubaker's runs (Brubaker only due to the white tiger storyline)

Edit: My mistake, I think the white tiger storyline is from the Bendis run.

 

[Zyraquis]

The strongest episode so far, gripping stuff. The series is turning g out to be as good as the Netflix series hope it holds up for the rest of the season.

 

[BobJM]

I will say, as a nitpick, I wish this wasn’t called “Born Again” as this has very little to do with that classic story, which I firmly believe to be the best Marvel comic story ever published and also Frank Miller’s best work.

This season is reminding me more of Chip Zdarsky’s run. All we would need would be Elodi Yung’s Elektra coming back and taking the Daredevil mantle to fill the gap while Matt deals with his crisis.

Really hoping to see Elektra in Season 2. I'll have to wait how this season turns out to see how it compares to the original series but I can say that I'm not underwhelmed or disappointed (yet), so really want to see all my faves come back for this reboot/sequel.

Would be awesome to see Luke Cage and Jessica Jones too; heck, I'd even take Iron Fist.

 

[chamber-music]

How delusional are these cops who idolize Castle? They don't know what his policy on police is, so they suspect that he's pro police and anti-vigilante. We know that Castle is no fan of the NYPD, but he knows which cop good and which cop is bad and would take different approaches depending on who it is. We saw in season 2 of his series how he felt about Brett Mahoney and most likely he would have done the same to Misty Knight and Eddy Costa (the cop from Jessica Jones). He would feel the same way about Costa as he did about Mahoney and likely as he would have about Misty: a bit of an antagonist, but someone he would knock out in a fight rather than kill.

However, those cops in this series do not know that. They assume that he is pro police and anti-vigilante. They idolize him without knowing what his true motives are. Whoever killed Hector Ayala (probably Cole North, who has not been introduced yet), is under the assumption that Castle would have done the same. Castle would not have done the same. Castle would have most likely have had the same dynamic with Ayala as he did with Matt in Season Two of the Netflix series.

These cops are in for a rude awakening as soon as Frank is ready to go.

The fact they made Frank Castle a cop/FBI agent in the previous movies always annoyed me given one of the core facets of The Punisher is his lack of faith in the justice system.