Falcon and Winter Soldier SEASON 1, EPISODE 4: The Whole World is Watching (SPOILERS)

[Bren]

As mentioned earlier, they took a sample to copy, and killed Erskine to stop others from recreating it.

 

[Solaire]

I don't think a lot of people get the point when it comes to John Walker. They cheer when characters disrespect him and beat his ass, but when he takes the serum and beats someone to death, they're appalled. What do you think lead to him doing that? It's the ridicule you're happy about. I understand people don't want him to be Captain America, but he didn't steal the shield and declare himself Cap. He was chosen to accomplish an impossible task.

I will never understand why people hate John so much. I gotta think it’s because of his comic counterpart. Sam and Bucky have treated him like a new kid in class but I guess he’s supposed to be ok getting disrespected nonstop. He didn’t do anything to them but they act like he pissed on Steve’s grave.

Saw a YouTube say he’s done now after he killed the Flagsmasher. Yeah he was wrong but here you are being sympathetic to Karli who had ppl tied up and blew them up and she killed Lemar. And then Sam and Bucky and traveling the world with Zemo who killed someone in cold blood.

 

[legendkillin]

I will never understand why people hate John so much. I gotta think it’s because of his comic counterpart. Sam and Bucky have treated him like a new kid in class but I guess he’s supposed to be ok getting disrespected nonstop. He didn’t do anything to them but they act like he pissed on Steve’s grave.

Saw a YouTube say he’s done now after he killed the Flagsmasher. Yeah he was wrong but here you are being sympathetic to Karli who had ppl tied up and blew them up and she killed Lemar. And then Sam and Bucky and traveling the world with Zemo who killed someone in cold blood.

He never did anything wrong technically, but what he could have done was say no to accepting the shield and that no one can live up to what Steve did for the world. The government would obviously find someone else willing to take the shield and the name though. I don't really care for the character Steve is the Cap to me and not like this guy is going to be in any movies.

 

[Gaultheria]

He never did anything wrong technically, but what he could have done was say no to accepting the shield and that no one can live up to what Steve did for the world.

I think part of the problem is that Walker embraced and enjoyed the fame and the promotional appearances. Steve only went along with the entertainment tour reluctantly and dropped the media star role as soon as he could. Both of them were uncomfortable with the spotlight, but for Walker the discomfort was inward-directed (stage fright), whereas Steve was frustrated from being held back from being a protector.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Walker just executed a helpless guy in the middle of the street in broad daylight. Regardless of what you thought about him before that, there is no coming back from that. He's not like Bucky who wasn't in control of his own actions when he did those things.

 

[Deck Rickard]

True, but I could see the government trying to capitalize on that. If they successfully paint the Flag Smashers as dangerous terrorists (and that wouldn’t be too hard since Karli has killed people) they could try and spin it as Walker just doing what is necessary and “desperate times call for desperate measures” and all that. Not saying that’s what they will do but it’s possible.

 

[Gaultheria]

True, but I could see the government trying to capitalize on that. If they successfully paint the Flag Smashers as dangerous terrorists (and that wouldn’t be too hard since Karli has killed people) they could try and spin it as Walker just doing what is necessary and “desperate times call for desperate measures” and all that. Not saying that’s what they will do but it’s possible.

I think that would be too tough to sell. Enough people (and their cameras) heard "It wasn't me! It wasn't me!" to make that the rallying cry against state-sponsored international brutality in the post-Blip world.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I think that would be too tough to sell. Enough people (and their cameras) heard "It wasn't me! It wasn't me!" to make that the rallying cry against state-sponsored international brutality in the post-Blip world.

One would hope. But given how many cops have gotten off scot free after being filmed as they kill people, anything is possible.

 

[Bren]

"Killing a known terrorist" is going to be the easiest spin in the world, if the US government want to use it here.

 

[Iceman]

"Killing a known terrorist" is going to be the easiest spin in the world, if the US government want to use it here.

Agreed. Although at the same time it didn’t occur on some faraway field with no witnesses. You could see the faces of all the people with their mobile phones and social media accounts. The government can much more easily spin what happens in distant war zones.

 

[Hannibal75]

"Killing a known terrorist" is going to be the easiest spin in the world, if the US government want to use it here.

A terrorist who had just killed an American soldier.

 

[NeverReadComics]

Well, technically Thor came closer than anyone to actually defeating Thanos in IW but this does raise an interesting question: why are all these people so obsessed with recreating the Super Soldier Serum when there are so many better super-power-granting chemical formulae around in the MCU?

Like the Extremis serum. Those guys were casually ripping apart Iron Man suits like they were cardboard. Or the Pym Particle, which is just ridiculously OP. Compared to those, the normal Super Soldier Serum looks a bit weak.

Like, if I was a wannabe supervillain in the MCU, I wouldn't bother with the SSS and instead would put my resources into getting ahold of one of those.

This is probably the weakest part of the whole MCU. The matching and mismatching off abilities.

It’s understandable given the sheer number of superheroes and the vast differences in abilities.

The super soldier serum is one of the least powerful enhancements compared to say an Iron Man suit or the examples you gave. But it’s linked to the Cap so takes on an importance of its own.

The extremis struggles from the disaster of Iron Man 3. It’s biggest failing was that it introduced extremis but in a way that couldn’t really be built on. What should’ve happened is that Tony Stark took it as it would then have lent some credibility to his inevitable stand off against Thanos.

In the end the two main superheroes are just a guy who is a bit stronger and a guy in a suit.

This of course is the exact same set up with Falcon and The Winder Soldier: a guy in a suit and a guy who is a bit stronger.

I think at this stage we just have to accept it as the way it is. There’s not much logic to it.

 

[DCnightwing23]

We've yet to see what Russia did with The Red Guardian in Black Widow. So he probably has physical enhancements added to his development.

Yeah.... a gut.

 

[DCnightwing23]

If this episode had taken place in the early 90s, Walker would've gotten away with it and probably remained Cap. There wouldn't be cell phones with cameras, no social media or internet so the whole world wouldn't even be able to watch.

It's 2021 and police get a slap on the wrist for murder all the time, politicians get away with dealings under the table, insider trading, etc. All this with everyone watching these days. Considering the underlining themes of this series, I would not be surprised if the government just had Walker lay low and transferred him over to the Thunderbolts, aka the MCUs version of paid administrative leave.

I'd also go out on a limb here in guessing that General Ross is the one who assembles the Thunderbolts in the MCU.

 

[Zarex]

The GRC brass could sell the Flag Smasher face smashing as a clean living war hero with a pristine record swiftly eliminating the immediate threat of a biologically enhanced terrorist hopped up on super soldier serum targeting the masses in a crowded city center. While I think at some point Walker will be asked to turn in the shield, I don't know if this will be the incident that does it.

 

[Dark Raven]

I'm guessing if he were smashing in Karli Morgentau's head, the optics of that would look far worse.

But was Nico a super soldier or an unpowered Flag Smasher? I'm guessing he wasn't powered. Had it been Karli, surely she would've been able to resist or stop the shield.

And why didn't she rush to save her friend?

 

[Silvermoon]

"Killing a known terrorist" is going to be the easiest spin in the world, if the US government want to use it here.

And there will be people that believe it, just like there are those that listen to claims of things like "well he was a criminal passing counterfeit money, he was on drugs" as justification for someone whose duty is to serve and protect to become judge, jury, and executioner on that accused criminal who is not/no longer an immediate threat to anyone without any type of due process. The question will be, does the US government want to risk the optics of that - because just as there are those that listen to those types of claims, there will be those (potentially even more) that will reject the government spin and demand accountability. That Nico, who clearly was no longer a threat in that moment - and could've easily been taken in alive at that point (indeed, alive would've been more beneficial overall as then there would've been the opportunity to try and get some information about Flag Smasher movements), at least deserved to have his day in court.

 

[Silvermoon]

I'm guessing if he were smashing in Karli Morgentau's head, the optics of that would look far worse.

But was Nico a super soldier or an unpowered Flag Smasher? I'm guessing he wasn't powered. Had it been Karli, surely she would've been able to resist or stop the shield.

And why didn't she rush to save her friend?

Pretty sure he was super soldier, I think the super soldier powered initial shield hit(s) to his back probably knocked the wind out of him though and he wasn't able to put up a fight (maybe also some "deer in the headlights" type of shock going on too - remember, this is the guy who told Karli that he used to love Captain America as a kid who now has the shield he once idolized bearing down on him).

I think Karli was too shocked at the horror to intervene and probably scared of Walker herself (she clearly realized what she'd done when she killed Lemar)

 

[Dark Raven]

Pretty sure he was super soldier, I think the super soldier powered initial shield hit(s) to his back probably knocked the wind out of him though and he wasn't able to put up a fight (maybe also some "deer in the headlights" type of shock going on too - remember, this is the guy who told Karli that he used to love Captain America as a kid who now has the shield he once idolized bearing down on him).

I think Karli was too shocked at the horror to intervene and probably scared of Walker herself (she clearly realized what she'd done when she killed Lemar)

But he must've known that this wasn't the same Captain America he loved as a kid but a completely different man under the mask. Otherwise it would be like someone who said they idolised the POTUS while Obama was in office and then having that same reverence when confronted by the POTUS who was Trump starting an insurrection.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Did anyone else get Netflix Marvel vibes from the end of this episode. That final scene was disturbing. Incredibly well executed. It took me back to the moment Fisk crushed that Russian boss's head in with the car door. Jarring in an everyone goes silent kind of way. Especially the image of blood on Captain America's shield. When did anyone think we would actually see the shield used like....that. Strong statement.

 

[Silvermoon]

But he must've known that this wasn't the same Captain America he loved as a kid but a completely different man under the mask. Otherwise it would be like someone who said they idolised the POTUS while Obama was in office and then having that same reverence when confronted by the POTUS who was Trump starting an insurrection.

Oh, I think he knew that it's a different captain america, no doubt, but it's the same shield and what the mantle of captain america is supposed to encompass. Like someone who idolizes the office of POTUS while Obama is president, and - knowing that he can't be president forever - having the hope that future POTUS's will also be that type of person (not saying it's a completely rational hope, but it's one I can see people having), only to then be horrified when the next one not only is NOT that type of POTUS but is ALSO actively desecrating the office and using a position of service to the people to harm (sometimes physically) the same people he's supposed to be serving. It can be a shock to some people - again, not saying that it's fully rational to have that kind of hope (or maybe to pin so much hope on something like that) in the first place, but our brains work the way they work, sometimes they cling to hope the wrong way and when that hope is shattered

So going back to Nico, again, deer in the headlights shock, even knowing it's a different person wielding the shield, it's the same shield, and that shield and mantle is supposed to mean something (heck, that's why the government brought "Captain America" back in the form of John Walker instead of making a new hero) regardless of whose wearing it (even if, as Karli put it, what the shield means is part of a bygone era)

 

[Dark Raven]

Oh, I think he knew that it's a different captain america, no doubt, but it's the same shield and what the mantle of captain america is supposed to encompass. Like someone who idolizes the office of POTUS while Obama is president, and - knowing that he can't be president forever - having the hope that future POTUS's will also be that type of person (not saying it's a completely rational hope, but it's one I can see people having), only to then be horrified when the next one not only is NOT that type of POTUS but is ALSO actively desecrating the office and using a position of service to the people to harm (sometimes physically) the same people he's supposed to be serving. It can be a shock to some people - again, not saying that it's fully rational to have that kind of hope (or maybe to pin so much hope on something like that) in the first place, but our brains work the way they work, sometimes they cling to hope the wrong way and when that hope is shattered

So going back to Nico, again, deer in the headlights shock, even knowing it's a different person wielding the shield, it's the same shield, and that shield and mantle is supposed to mean something (heck, that's why the government brought "Captain America" back in the form of John Walker instead of making a new hero) regardless of whose wearing it (even if, as Karli put it, what the shield means is part of a bygone era)

Maybe Sam Wilson will have an easier time of being Captain America now after having John Walker face all the pressure of assuming the mantle after Steve Rogers. Walker could never live up to him and so he was bound to fail. He's like the George Lazenby of Captain Americas with Steve Rogers being more like Sean Connery. So Sam Wilson can now come in as the Roger Moore of Captain Americas who would be more accepted after the short outing of Lazenby who almost served his purpose as a stepping stone.

 

[javonstokess]

I saw someone say that Steve Rodgers never really referred to himself as "Captain America", it was everyone else that looked at him that way.

John Walker, on the other hand, spends a TON of time reminding people that he's Captain America in the jerkish way imaginable.

Steve was effortless and selfless, while Walker is self-centered and rampantly insecure and we can all see it...which is why people don't like him. We could know nothing about who his character was in the books and we'd still come to the same conclusion.

*BTW, I know Steve called himself Captain America when he introduced himself to the Howling Commandos, but he clearly did it sarcastically.

 

[Dark Raven]

Double Toasted have their review up for this episode. They were wondering what would happen if Lamar were still alive after all that and either came running along after Walker had killed the Flag Smasher or showed up next episode. That would be awkward.

 

[Delwin]

I really like the quality of the storytelling with new cap and actor's quality. Wyatt Russel did a great job in the last episode.