Ms. Marvel Season 1, Episode 5 "Time and Again" (Spoiler Thread)

[TheVileOne]

Probably to keep S.W.O.R.D. as the good cops, not wanting both sides by different agents after S.H.I.E.L.D/Hydra. But bad cops are also needed for stories. With William Hurt's medical status being more public than Chadwick Boseman's they had time to set up for an antagonist organization and Spider-Man Homecoming had already set them up as an uncaring government agency.

Except in Homecoming, Damage Control was set up as a joint operation to "oversee the collection and storage of alien and other exotic materials."

 

[Kane52630]

They changed since the blip which you'll see more of in She-Hulk.

United States Department of Damage Control | Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki | Fandom

By 2024, the Department of Damage Control had transitioned into a federal law enforcement agency tasked with apprehending enhanced individuals along with seizing dangerous and alien artifacts.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Rather anti-climactic.

See I do agree with you here Vile.

The villains in this series were not developed as well as Kamala and her circle. They should’ve kept this for the last episode and added a battle with it.

Because again, if I know you were responsible for killing my great grandmother, it’s clobbering time.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Probably to keep S.W.O.R.D. as the good cops, not wanting both sides by different agents after S.H.I.E.L.D/Hydra. But bad cops are also needed for stories. With William Hurt's medical status being more public than Chadwick Boseman's they had time to set up for an antagonist organization and Spider-Man Homecoming had already set them up as an uncaring government agency.

that's why I don't think that Damage Control will pay for the damages to Circle Q.

 

[TheVileOne]

They changed since the blip which you'll see more of in She-Hulk.

United States Department of Damage Control | Marvel Cinematic Universe Wiki | Fandom

That seems like a job SHIELD and/or SWORD would be more suited for.

See I do agree with you here Vile.

The villains in this series were not developed as well as Kamala and her circle. They should’ve kept this for the last episode and added a battle with it.

Because again, if I know you were responsible for killing my great grandmother, it’s clobbering time.

Well here is my issue. Up until now, the show was building up the Clandestine and Najma as the main villains. And in this episode, Najma literally murders Aisha in cold blood. Her friend. For Najma, any means necessary is OK. The ends justify the means. So instead of a big confrontation with Najma, she ends up offing herself.

Now was it shocking for Najma to go out this way? I guess. But It was still anti-climactic.

Now, Kamala only left with Kamran to fight. And Kamran has been built up thus far as being sympathetic to Kamala. He likes Kamala and doesn't want her hurt. He doesn't want collateral damage or to hurt others. But I guess he still has misguided loyalty to her mother and will probably blame Kamala for what happened to Najma?

Either way still anti-climactic. They haven't spent enough time on Kamran as the final person Kamala has to face.

Compare this to S1 of The Tick. We actually get Jackie Earle Haley putting in a great performance as the villain The Terror. It's not only a superhero origin story for Arthur, but it actually builds up to his climactic confrontation with The Terror while also riffing on superhero and genre tropes and doing a light spoof and satire of the superhero genre.

Or gold standard being S1 Netflix Daredevil. While Matt didn't get his costume and nickname until the end, he still had multiple confrontations with Wilson Fisk and Fisk was built up as the big bad throughout the season.

Imagine killing off Kingpin before the S1 finale of Daredevil and in the last episode he fights Wesley. `

 

[Dr. Evil]

Damage Control being a government agency that doesn't care, even about regular humans could come back to haunt them. It's not a HYDRA situation, but it could be a situation where among the general public in the MCU, the reputation of Damage Control will be so bad that changes need to be made, including the possible exit of Cleary, because if they continue to damage places run by ordinary people, in the MCU, it's not going to be a good look for them at all, especially if them and Cleary are sued for damages and negligence. What they could have done was send a few agents in after Kamala and Kamran, but it was pure negligence on their part to use a drone to damage a mom and pop store.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Except in Homecoming, Damage Control was set up as a joint operation to "oversee the collection and storage of alien and other exotic materials."

In real life with have the bureaucratic organism attempt to grow and mission creep. Trying to snatch away responsibilities from other agencies is a thing. Like the F.B.I. trying to lock the A.T.F. out of the Atlanta Olympic bombing investigations or a Sheriff taking over independent transit, school, park, etc. police. It is not much of a stretch for me seeing Damage Control going further and trying to grow rather than the FBI having an ex SHIELD agent working their special cases

that's why I don't think that Damage Control will pay for the damages to Circle Q.

I can see the government trying to seize bad guy's assets to ultimate pay claims. But if all you have is a teen orphan I would think that they would pay "market value" for their actions. If not the MCU US Supreme Court would ultimately decide after the insurance companies sue.

 

[Dr. Evil]

In real life with have the bureaucratic organism attempt to grow and mission creep. Trying to snatch away responsibilities from other agencies is a thing. Like the F.B.I. trying to lock the A.T.F. out of the Atlanta Olympic bombing investigations or a Sheriff taking over independent transit, school, park, etc. police. It is not much of a stretch for me seeing Damage Control going further and trying to grow rather than the FBI having an ex SHIELD agent working their special cases


I can see the government trying to seize bad guy's assets to ultimate pay claims. But if all you have is a teen orphan I would think that they would pay "market value" for their actions. If not the MCU US Supreme Court would ultimately decide after the insurance companies sue.

Agent Cleary will say that they did nothing wrong, because that seems to be the type of person he is. But he could easily lose his job and reputation if he damages property all to capture super powered beings. He seems like a character who will never adapt to change.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Agent Cleary will say that they did nothing wrong, because that seems to be the type of person he is. But he could easily lose his job and reputation if he damages property all to capture super powered beings. He seems like a character who will never adapt to change.

I guess until She-Hulk comes around we will be spared MCU's The Good Wife/Fight court scenes

 

[TheVileOne]

Agent Cleary will say that they did nothing wrong, because that seems to be the type of person he is. But he could easily lose his job and reputation if he damages property all to capture super powered beings. He seems like a character who will never adapt to change.

Agent Woo wouldn't stand for this.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Agent Woo wouldn't stand for this.

I do wonder how big is Special Agent Woo in the F.B.I. From Scott Lang's parole officer to the go to X-files like guy when Westview turned up due to his ex S.H.I.E.L.D. status. Of course the MCU world knows stuff is real so S.W.O.R.D. came in to take over

 

[Zarex]

Off the grip, Great Grandma Aisha is fine as hell.

Secondly, this episode was so good. It actually got me emotional, the scenes between Aisha, Hasan, baby Grandma, it was all well done.

Kamala is better than me because after knowing that she killed my great grandmother, I would’ve thrown Najma’s ass in the Veil myself.

But again, great episode.

I'm sure lots of viewers are thinking "When is a gorgeous young lady needing food and shelter going to pop in from another dimension and hang out in my rose bushes?"

I don't care much for Najma as a villain, but I will give her credit for consistency. She has been going speedily from "I love you!" to "Now you die!" since the 40s.

A big problem with these shows is a lack of cool super-powered villains to challenge and hinder the heroes.

Some of these shows could've really used some Wrecking Crew type mini-bosses.

The Crew would work, though I figured they would end up in She-Hulk. Kamala's Rogues Gallery is pretty sparse, likely due to her being a modern creation. Writers aren't going to go nuts like Kirby and create a boatload of baddies for their employers to own. But I would agree some D lister should name him/herself Kamala's arch nemesis at some point. That will probably be Kamran, which will also probably be a smidge underwhelming.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm sure lots of viewers are thinking "When is a gorgeous young lady needing food and shelter going to pop in from another dimension and hang out in my rose bushes?"

I don't care much for Najma as a villain, but I will give her credit for consistency. She has been going speedily from "I love you!" to "Now you die!" since the 40s.



The Crew would work, though I figured they would end up in She-Hulk. Kamala's Rogues Gallery is pretty sparse, likely due to her being a modern creation. Writers aren't going to go nuts like Kirby and create a boatload of baddies for their employers to own. But I would agree some D lister should name him/herself Kamala's arch nemesis at some point. That will probably be Kamran, which will also probably be a smidge underwhelming.

This hasn't kept Marvel from moving rogues around to different characters and groups.

Heck, Yellowjacket used to be a Hank Pym alter-ego.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I do wonder how big is Special Agent Woo in the F.B.I. From Scott Lang's parole officer to the go to X-files like guy when Westview turned up due to his ex S.H.I.E.L.D. status. Of course the MCU world knows stuff is real so S.W.O.R.D. came in to take over

As we saw in WandaVision, Woo is quite adaptable to change and not as uptight as he was in Ant Man and the Wasp. Now the Snap (which they said he survived) might give him a new perspective on life. I can't see anything like that for Cleary. Even Thaddeus Ross allowed Scott Lang and Clint Barton to go under house arrest to be with their families. At this point in time, I doubt Cleary will even allow that.

 

[Kev4000]

Im curious what Marvel was thinking. Not alone, finding a target group for a female muslim teenager is hard enough (Im so happy they bring Kamala to live action), but then scare away the audience with the turn to a serious historical drama?

This series has some serious issues of finding its tone and feels unfocused. Episode one and two were soo different from episode four and five. Bringing some cultural difficulties is a great idea, but in a typical Disney-move they restrict themself in the past to avoid taking a stand or tell a real progressive story.

I feel so disappointed because the cast is so on point and she show could have been so much better.

 

[Sithborg]

Damage Control being a government agency that doesn't care, even about regular humans could come back to haunt them. It's not a HYDRA situation, but it could be a situation where among the general public in the MCU, the reputation of Damage Control will be so bad that changes need to be made, including the possible exit of Cleary, because if they continue to damage places run by ordinary people, in the MCU, it's not going to be a good look for them at all, especially if them and Cleary are sued for damages and negligence. What they could have done was send a few agents in after Kamala and Kamran, but it was pure negligence on their part to use a drone to damage a mom and pop store.

But that would require Marvel to say the US government is bad, actually. Which, good luck with that.

I do have questions about how that drone was able to explode the store like that.

A good episode, but not exactly my favorite, mainly because the lack of the reason I watch this show, Kamala. Good backstory, but combined with last weeks, a lot of momentum was lost. It wouldn't be an issue if there were more episodes, but we are stuck at 6, with way too much to cover next episode.

I do like the origin of the lightning bolt, considering we never had the prior Carol Danvers costumes.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

But that would require Marvel to say the US government is bad, actually. Which, good luck with that.

I do have questions about how that drone was able to explode the store like that.

A good episode, but not exactly my favorite, mainly because the lack of the reason I watch this show, Kamala. Good backstory, but combined with last weeks, a lot of momentum was lost. It wouldn't be an issue if there were more episodes, but we are stuck at 6, with way too much to cover next episode.

I do like the origin of the lightning bolt, considering we never had the prior Carol Danvers costumes.

As Kamran was hitting the drone with his powers the drone launched a missile attack which lost lock and went down to the store.

The episode sort of reminded me of Karen from Daredevil in its early focus on a supporting character.. However with only 6 hours can you get away with that much time on the great grandparents courtship?

 

[Holy Slapper]

Some of the family stuff was touching but...this is a superhero show right? Where's the villains and actual conflict?

Is it too much to treat this as a show about a family with some superhero elements?

 

[TheVileOne]

Is it too much to treat this as a show about a family with some superhero elements?

It's imbalanced. Like by the second episode, I was already invested in Iman Vellani as Kamal and her journey. Now it's getting kind of padded out.

 

[Dr. Evil]

But that would require Marvel to say the US government is bad, actually. Which, good luck with that.

I do have questions about how that drone was able to explode the store like that.

A good episode, but not exactly my favorite, mainly because the lack of the reason I watch this show, Kamala. Good backstory, but combined with last weeks, a lot of momentum was lost. It wouldn't be an issue if there were more episodes, but we are stuck at 6, with way too much to cover next episode.

I do like the origin of the lightning bolt, considering we never had the prior Carol Danvers costumes.

She Hulk is going to be 9 episodes, but most of the series have been six, and I am curious to know if it's something mandated by Kevin Feige.

 

[Holy Slapper]

It's imbalanced. Like by the second episode, I was already invested in Iman Vellani as Kamal and her journey. Now it's getting kind of padded out.

Well I'm sorry, Thanos, but not everything needs to be balanced.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

She Hulk is going to be 9 episodes, but most of the series have been six, and I am curious to know if it's something mandated by Kevin Feige.

That is my guess since many Netflix/Defender seasons were said to have been too long

 

[djsunyc]

the weakest part of this series is obviously the clandestine and the female dodc agent.

but literally everything else has been A+ for me. this show has depicted the most touching and supportive family dynamic in the entire mcu. the chemistry between everyone is off the charts as well. not to mention showing the world a different perspective of being muslim and being from pakistan that they're used.

the visuals and how the show is shot continues to be unique/top notch. the marvel logo changing to black and white for the history lesson was a great touch.

really fantastic stuff. the first half of this episode was some of the best back story the mcu has ever done.

now if the villians and the fighting/superhero stuff ranks high on what you want from these shows, then i can understand the disappointment...but i actually applaud marvel for making this a family/history story first before the superhero stuff.

 

[TheVileOne]

Well I'm sorry, Thanos, but not everything needs to be balanced.

That's fine if it's working for you. I will still share my thoughts.

 

[Sithborg]

That is my guess since many Netflix/Defender seasons were said to have been too long

Its likely a combination of budget and scheduling. A lot of the big names don't want to do a 10 episode commitment.