Season 6, Episode 3 "Oathbreaker" Discussion Thread

So, I'm curious if Jon Snow is still gonna be pissed and hardened after his temporary assassination? I'd do what Dany did and hold a bonfire, or just send them out into the north.

 

- Oathbreaker
- Brienne of Tarth in the episode
- Brienne broke her oath
- Stannis is alive

 

I sure as hell hope Stannis isn't alive.

My guess is the title refers to John breaking his Oath to the Night's Watch and getting his armies ready to take on Ramsay.

 

After messing his character up and having him burn his only heir I kinda hope they leave him be. I can't see him coming back now. Though I really enjoyed the actor in the role

 

Spoiler

I have a bad feeling about this.

 

I'm sure Jon is finally breaking his Night's Watch oath. Now he can be one step closer to being Jon Stark.

And man, did Stannis get the sh**tiest death. He's technically the rightful king and after how they wrote him, they decide to kill him off screen.

 

Gods be good I can see the clickbaiters getting themselves into a frenzy over where that image could be going.

 

The whole Stannis/Renly thing is the one thing that bugs me about Brienne. Generally, I love her character. But I don't understand her undying loyalty to Renly for being "the rightful king" when he sure as hell wasn't. She pledged undying fealty to him because... he was nice to her once. I mean, really? Stannis might have been a prick, but he was technically the rightful heir to the throne and he was a better leader than Renly.

 

Would he have been, though? Renly might have been too carefree, but Stannis would have been too harsh, I think.

 

I'm not saying that Stannis would have been a very good ruler, but I think he would have at least been a capable one. Renly didn't seem to know what the hell he was doing.

 

Agreed.

 

I think the thing with Brienne (who I love) is that she tries to follow the code of chivalry to the letter, and absolute loyalty to your Lord or Lady is one of them. Chivalry is great as an ideal, but irl even some of those who wrote conduct books didn't follow it to the letter, because in the heat of battle morals can go out of the window.

That's what bothers me about Brienne killing Stannis. A 'True Knight' would have taken him prisoner. That's why I'm hoping that since it happened off-screen he's not actually dead. I can understand her, as I said above, getting caught up in the heat of battle, but to me, as Ser Barristan is dead on the show, she's the only True Knight left...but if she killed Stannis, she isn't . It doesn't make me like her any less, it's just disappointing.

 

Technically Stannis is the brother of a usurper. Not the rightful king.

Spoiler

Jon is the rightful king since he is the son of Prince Rhaegar. If Jon doesnt get the throne it goes to Dany.

The Targs created the united realm and the throne. Its theirs as long as a Targ is alive. Stannis was as much a criminal as all the other pretenders. So really Renly had as much right to the throne as Stannis... none. Stannis should have recognized the fact that his brother was a usurper, secured the throne for Dany, and he himself should have taken the position of defender of the realm.

 

I would have wanted Stannis to be alive still, but his character is just destroyed, so if he came back I don't know that I could enjoy him as much as I did. The writers just took specific moments in the last season to go "okay, here's why you don't need to like Stannis". His death would have been a lot more tragic if he was still 'good' Stannis too, so I don't know why they did that; it's like they tried to lessen the impact.

He had that generally bleak, stoic, stern personality, and most of those characters can be bores, but I just liked Stannis. I rooted for him when he was alive, I just thought he was pretty cool.

 

I like Stannis and always wanted him to succeed. He's a proven commander who thinks carefully about ruling and conveys real strength. At the same time, people don't like him despite his qualifications. They like other more outgoing and passionate rulers. There's something identifiable about that if you've ever worked hard for something only to see someone more popular and less accomplished than you reap the rewards.

 

Oathbreaker...

Robb Stark: When I am done with the Lannisters, I will root you out of your keep and hang you for an oathbreaker.
Greatjon Umber: OATHBREAKER IS IT?!?!?!?!?

Smalljon is in the episode... Lots of meanings

 

Jon served the Night's Watch till his death. Couldn't have broken his oath. The Oathbreaker title probably applies to those who killed their LC. Like when Jon hunted the other traitors.

 

Stephen Dillane did a marvellous job in making Stannis a sympathetic character, and I agree that the show did a hatchet job on him. I want him to be alive because a) such an important character shouldn't have been given an off-screen death and b) see my post above about Brienne being the last 'True Knight' left on the show, and if she killed Stannis she's lost that status.

 

Greatjon, Smalljon, Jon Snow, Jon Arryn, Johns coming and going from Littlefinger's brothel...

Too many Jons...

 

Yeah, I can understand the impetus behind making Stannis come off looking pretty bad to prop up Dany and Jon, or to make a comment about fanaticism, but they failed to avoid the biggest risk to their portrayal: making Stannis's entire season arc anti-climactic and kind of a waste of time.

As other have noted, Stannis's actions towards his daughter early in the season heavily leaned on showing that his (show only) religious belief had no impact on his love for her. but the show seemed focused on making it just a bait and switch to make the shock heavier.

And I know this isn't the book thread, but of I could offer an alternative change to his storyline in last season using some book elements just to hear how you guys take it, how's about this:

Stannis heads for Winterfell...but leaves his wife, Melisandre and daughter behind at the Wall (as in the book). Stannis is ready to march on Winterfell when suddenly he recieved a note, and we see that Melisandre burned Shireen's, and it breaks Stannis. His army deserts him, and he sits alone, broken, in his tent when Brienne finds him.

Now, he's a tragic character, but also there's an entire army that Ramsay may try and recruit to his side after assuming the Lordship.

 

1) Stannis couldn't have possibly known that Dany was alive or that she was in any position to rule anything. To my knowledge they aren't aware of her as of yet in the novels either. 2) The Targaryen laws of succession were radically re-written after the Dance of the Dragons, making female heirs come absolutely last before any other possible male candidates. Stannis was part of the Targaryen bloodline through his grandmother in the books and his mother in the show. So by Targaryen laws of inheritance the Baratheons brothers had claim, and since Stannis was the eldest it went to him.

This may even play into the show, assuming Stannis relationship with [Blackout]Jon[/Blackout] wasn't just for ****s and giggles. He seemed to have clued together something about his parentage in 5x04, and we have to remember Stannis was the first one who suspected that Robert's kids weren't his. He may well have figured out that [Blackout]Jon[/Blackout] was the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and thus related to the Baratheons. Since they've cut Robb's will designating [Blackout]Jon[/Blackout] as his heir, I think it's possible that they could shift that to Stannis and have him leave some form of testament showing him declaring the LC as his heir through shared lineage.

 

Uh, aren't they aware of Dany as of A Game of Thrones? That is what Robert and Ned fight over.

 

Robert, Ned and the Small Council are, but Stannis had been gone from the Capitol by then for at least a month and was hold up on Dragonstone gathering his forces.