Season 6, Episode 5 "The Door" Discussion Thread

[Victarion]

Hopefully they will - DnD said Bloodraven was uploading everything he'd known into Bran while the WW were banging down the doors to the children's outpost. So once Bran and Meera make it to safety, we hopefully get a scene where Bran can review what he's learned from BR.

 

[Reek]

Bran is a murderer... he should be hanged next to Ollie... just won't need to be hung as high as Ollie.....

 

[Reek]

Hopefully they will - DnD said Bloodraven was uploading everything he'd known into Bran while the WW were banging down the doors to the children's outpost. So once Bran and Meera make it to safety, we hopefully get a scene where Bran can review what he's learned from BR.

I hate how they phrased that... treating this show like its the Matrix mixed with the Flash's time travel crap

 

[Victarion]

So the tree where they sacrificed the guy - is that the same one as BR's hideout?

I'm hoping we get to see the white walker fortress again - the mountains and auroras over it were beautiful.

 

[Reek]

nah different tree imo

 

[Silver Surfer]

So the tree where they sacrificed the guy - is that the same one as BR's hideout?

I'm hoping we get to see the white walker fortress again - the mountains and auroras over it were beautiful.

The tree where the WW was created is the tree Bran sees in his solo vision when the NK touches him. The overhead view shows the same symbol pattern.

 

[Schlosser85]

Thats how I took it as well.

Loved that for the first time in the series, both Littlefinger and Varys were outmatched in their own game

I didn't totally get what Varys was going for.

 

[Ezio Auditore]

Okay super tonfoil theory about how the Wall is going to fall.

Spoiler

What if Bran goes south of the Wall wearing his new White Walker tatoo that will allow the Night's King and all his army to pass (or destroy) the Wall's magic?

 

[Logan0327]

 

[Drizzle]

Bran is a murderer... he should be hanged next to Ollie... just won't need to be hung as high as Ollie.....

Jaime was right all along when he pushed his ass out a window.

 

[Reek]

Jaime could have been a hero had the stubborn little **** just died

 

[BrollySupersj]

Ok, this episode was awesome. But there was one thing I didn't like.

The origins of the WW. They were...created? By The Children? No no no! Goddamn it I hate that type of thing. I thought it would be a whole lot more invovled and mysterious than that. Instead...it's just they were made. I'm getting flashbacks to the Reapers in Mass Effect 3 with this one.

Now I ain't swearing it off entirely, it would appear the WW aren't being controlled or ordered around, they appear to be fully autonomous, and don't recognize their creators.

But still, I find that merely being created, takes away their allure as the ancient evil.

 

[The Apocalypse]

Jaime could have been a hero had the stubborn little **** just died

He couldn't have died. The Island wasn't done with him yet.

Wait...wrong show.

 

[Brother Jack]

Spoiler

So Bran warged into Hodor in the present while remaining warged in the past, and the two bled together and caused Hodor to have his seizure in the past.

Is that the gist of it?

Spoiler

Something like that. But the larger point that was made is that a) Bran can affect the past and b) he's not actually changing anything. We're seeing a causality loop here. Bran was always there to scramble Hodor's brain as a child, causing him to become Hodor and later Bran's protector, taking him to the Three Eyed Raven so that he could magic himself into the past and scramble Hodor's brain. The circle closes with Hodor dying whilst doing the very thing that caused him to be in the first place. It was his destiny. The red priestess in Mereen talks to Varys about how everything happens for a reason; this was the literal manifestation of that.

 

[Victarion]

Ok, this episode was awesome. But there was one thing I didn't like.

The origins of the WW. They were...created? By The Children? No no no! Goddamn it I hate that type of thing. I thought it would be a whole lot more invovled and mysterious than that. Instead...it's just they were made. I'm getting flashbacks to the Reapers in Mass Effect 3 with this one.

Now I ain't swearing it off entirely, it would appear the WW aren't being controlled or ordered around, they appear to be fully autonomous, and don't recognize their creators.

But still, I find that merely being created, takes away their allure as the ancient evil.

It makes things a bit messier. I would have been disappointed if DnD had left the WW as nothing more than an implacable force that needed to be dealt with. You keep the allure of them being an ancient evil, but they're less interesting than Tywin, Roose or Ramsay. Its not what you need in your series' endgame - the endgame is where you need the moral compasses to get thrown wildly off course; this is what I think we'll get with the WW, for it seems that they're more victims of a cruel fate than anything else.

 

[ComicChick]

man.

Hodor

the play that arya saw reminded me of an episode of the last airbender but i kinda wanna see where this is going.

all the sacrifices so that bran and meera could get away kinda pissed me off. or maybe i'm just extra mad at that ending. but totally pissed about the direwolf. it seemed like the children got killed too easily? maybe i just don't know that much about them?
the weapon/staff/whatever that Meera threw at the white walker was left behind correct? i was kinda half watching at that point, so i think i missed what exactly it was and where she got it and who it belonged to. safe to say it's dragonglass?

totally liked what sansa did for jon, by sticking up for him, claiming him outright as a brother and making him the fur thing that he did.

also, totally saw Tormund giving Brienne the side-eye all episode. i can't remember where Brienne's family is located, whether in the North or not, and who they're loyal to. someone can answer was faster than i can find online i'm sure.

 

[Reek]

It was a dragon glass spear... and yes it was left behind.

 

[Roose Bolton]

man.

Hodor

the play that arya saw reminded me of an episode of the last airbender but i kinda wanna see where this is going.

all the sacrifices so that bran and meera could get away kinda pissed me off. or maybe i'm just extra mad at that ending. but totally pissed about the direwolf. it seemed like the children got killed too easily? maybe i just don't know that much about them?
the weapon/staff/whatever that Meera threw at the white walker was left behind correct? i was kinda half watching at that point, so i think i missed what exactly it was and where she got it and who it belonged to. safe to say it's dragonglass?

totally liked what sansa did for jon, by sticking up for him, claiming him outright as a brother and making him the fur thing that he did.

also, totally saw Tormund giving Brienne the side-eye all episode. i can't remember where Brienne's family is located, whether in the North or not, and who they're loyal to. someone can answer was faster than i can find online i'm sure.

She's from the Stormlands, little island off the coast called Tarth. Her family are bannermen of House Baratheon, or were anyway.

 

[ComicChick]

She's from the Stormlands, little island off the coast called Tarth. Her family are bannermen of House Baratheon, or were anyway.

thanks. i remembered the Tarth part, but didn't know where it was. maybe she could sway them to join Sansa's army. Ned was Robert's best friend, but Tommen is a "baratheon" even though he's not. i dunno.

i just kinda wanna see them going to all these small houses door to door like vaccuum salesmen lol

 

[Reek]

Jon, Davos, and Sansa are traveling to Bear Island... the "Lord" (lady) there is a 10 year old girl

 

[BrollySupersj]

It makes things a bit messier. I would have been disappointed if DnD had left the WW as nothing more than an implacable force that needed to be dealt with. You keep the allure of them being an ancient evil, but they're less interesting than Tywin, Roose or Ramsay. Its not what you need in your series' endgame - the endgame is where you need the moral compasses to get thrown wildly off course; this is what I think we'll get with the WW, for it seems that they're more victims of a cruel fate than anything else.

The way I see it, no origin will ever be good enough, especially for such mysterious beings like the WW. So don't bother with one.

To me, true terror is not knowing the how and the why, they're coming to kill everyone, and we'll never understand. That's scary to me. Moreso than merely being created as a tool.

 

[Reek]

#TeamOthers

 

[Brother Jack]

The way I see it, no origin will ever be good enough, especially for such mysterious beings like the WW. So don't bother with one.

To me, true terror is not knowing the how and the why, they're coming to kill everyone, and we'll never understand. That's scary to me. Moreso than merely being created as a tool.

Thematically, the implication with the white walkers has been that they come from nature. It's always been man vs. nature, man vs. the inevitable. Seeing the children create them is just a literal picture of that.

 

[bes628]

Im good with the White Walker Origin. They were created as biological weapons to protect the children from the First Men, making them not quite human any longer but not of nature either. What we don't know , at least yet is why They turned on the Children, and what their ultimate goal is.

 

[Victarion]

The way I see it, no origin will ever be good enough, especially for such mysterious beings like the WW. So don't bother with one.

To me, true terror is not knowing the how and the why, they're coming to kill everyone, and we'll never understand. That's scary to me. Moreso than merely being created as a tool.

I wouldn't consider them any more tools than you would your basic soldier, though some may consider them tools for the politicos. For me, its more veterans with PTSD, magic, and an ax to grind against the ones they once protected/innocent bystanders that I find more frightening. That said, I can understand your position - its a bit like mine, except for me its more the unknowable terror that I don't find all that scary.

edit: GRRM, in discussing Tolkien, has praised the professor's contribution to the fantasy genre; however, he has been critical of Sauron being a stereotypical Dark Lord. There's no telling how it'll shakedown in the books, but this revelation is in the spirit of GRRM's critcism toward the cliche of the evil Dark Lord. The WW can still do terrible things, but we have a frame of reference for whatever they end up doing.