Discussion in 'Arrow' started by NotNickFury, Nov 6, 2018.
Wow. A tease for Elseworlds and Talia just name-dropped Gotham?
So lets just get this part over with: This episode would've been so much better if we deleted the Diggle/Curtis subplot. It was boring as hell and they make the most boring Arrow duo in the shows history. Those two together working Argus is the worst.
Now besides them I enjoyed the rest of the episode.
Introducing Talia back into the mix and making her "The Demon"...very cleaver show. Her being connected to Diaz off screen...eh...ok I guess. Her and Oliver were a dynamic duo that I enjoyed watching, it was nice to get some resolution of her character from the island. Their fight scenes were great, dynamic great, though Oliver sacrificed himself so she could be free how heroic of him.
When we take S1 out of the equation, we have not gotten a scene with all of Arrows females in the same scene alone. Letting that set in was very sad to think about. Even having 1:1's with each other we didnt get anything substantial since Laurel/Thea in S4 so this entire plot made me so happy. I've been yearning for a female centric episode for SO LONG and now this makes me yearn for one even more, please make it happen BS. Laurel/Felicity are like Salt/Pepper, they just mix so well together it is fantastic to watch them and we got plenty of them tonight on all levels. Adding Dinah into the mix didn't add much but I did enjoy her brief snark with Laurel and just seeing all 3 work together in general. They were able to take down Lvl2 together which is a huge win. Laurels learning empathy, Felicity has been learning how to ruthless to get what she wants, Dinah's been Dinah. Everything about it was very refreshing.
I could have really done without the ARGUS subplot. Aside from that, it was a really good episode!
It was pretty awesome to see Talia return. I was not expecting that!
Not a bad episode, Ollie can't be that far from a release (though I fail to see how that evidence is in any way going to help his release; unless I've missed something, he's still imprisoned because he is/was the Green Arrow, what difference does it make what's happened to him whilst imprisoned? He's still (as far as the FBI are concerned) a criminal.
I can't quite imagine it's an Elseworld tease (except for the fact Batwoman is from Gotham); I do wonder whether Talia had a scuffle with Kate or Bruce though... Intriguing.
Indeed, the ARGUS subplot adds little to the show at the moment. Whatever is going on there best payoff.
This was a pretty good episode. I agree with everyone else that the Curtis/Argus subplot felt a bit like filler and they're should have saved it for another episode. It was nice to see Talia again and it's pretty cool that she mentioned Gotham. I have a feeling that her old foe in Gotham is Kate Kane than Bruce Wayne as I think that reference was a foreshadowing to Batwoman. I enjoyed Talia and Oliver's teacher-student relationship. That fight scene with Talia and Oliver against all the cops was amazing. I hope we see Talia again (though I have a feeling that she will appear in Batwoman).
The prison stuff was cool and I like that Oliver had empathy towards to criminals. Oliver was very heroic in this episode and he could have escaped with Talia but he didn't want to be a fugitive as it could effect his family which was very selfless of him.
I liked Laurel and Felicity friendship. They're should have done more with them as friends in the first two seasons of Arrow. Emily Bett Rickards and Katie Cassidy have great chemistry.
Overall a good episode and so far the new showrunner is doing a great job
I am generally annoyed with the "let's blow everything up and spend multiple weeks putting it all back together" type storylines. But this year's Arrow has done it well.
Very much enjoying Team Laurelity (Felaurel?).
Get him out of jail already.
I enjoyed this episode and its two main plotlines. Oliver's prison ordeal and his team-up with old ally/enemy Talia were very engaging, and the fight scenes in the prison were nicely done. I also liked the team-up of Laurel, Felicity, Dinah. Seeing all three of the leading female characters on the show working together was a refreshing development, and I thought that the three actresses played off one another skillfully. The Oliver-Talia team-up and the Laurel-Felicity-Dinah team-up were both handled well overall and kept me interested and entertained all through the episode.
I didn't really like the Diggle-Curtis team-up very much because their plotline was pretty boring and their chemistry was not very strong. This subplot could have easily been cut. At least it didn't take up a huge amount of screentime. The only thing I liked was the discovery of the computer icon of the painting of Dante. That got me intrigued, and I'm curious about what the painting means in terms of Season 7's overarching storyline.
Good episode. I think this has been the best season of Arrow since S1-3.
Well (as you know), most of the DC/CW heroes/shows are clustered on Earth-1. So many fans figured that Supergirl was due for some company on Earth-38 - and that Batwoman should hail from there. But with Talia’s reference to an old enemy in Gotham, it seems as if Batwoman is being set up for an Earth-1 origin.
I wasn't aware Talia had history with Batwoman; only Batman?
In any case, Gotham (and a Bat-figure) has been mentioned/referenced in Supergirl. At this point, the Batwoman show could be on either Earth, if not a third one.
Wait, was Talia the Demon? Did they ever actually confirm this in the episode? I thought maybe Ollie never met this Demon down there but just happened to encounter Talia. He never said "You're the Demon everyone fears?"
She didn't seem such a big bad as the prisoners all made out. In fact, she helped him and they seemed to part on good terms. She didn't even seem all that much in league with Diaz.
I thought maybe Oliver got sent back up to Level 1 and was thinking "Damn, how do I get back down to Level 2 now? Because I never met this Demon. All that happened was that I received some shock therapy and helped Talia escape. This didn't go quite according to plan! "
I agree the Diggle/Curtis subplot was dull and unnecessary. Why did they even need it? It was pure filler and had no bearing on anything.
Felicity's quivering voice is intolerable and such an earache. Good to see the three women working together though.
It’s been established that Earth-1 and -38 each have a Gotham City. What’s ambiguous is whether Batman exists in either. Weighing the clues, Earth-38 would seem to have the edge. But with Talia’s recent reference, Earth-1 is back in contention. And even if Talia was speaking of Batwoman (not Batman), this suggests that Earth-1 is being set up as BW’s place of origin in the upcoming crossover.
Or… it could have been a throwaway, Easter Egg-y line.
This was a great episode, Talia revealed as the Demon was OK, it makes sense I guess.
I still don't trust Oliver's 'prison sidekick' though I think he has something to do with Diaz.
I think his sidekick is the Demon. What better place to pull the strings than in plain sight and from the hero's side?
Also enjoyed this episode. Really glad they brought Cassidy back and I'm liking her character's redemption arc. I hated it when they let her go last time, which is a big reason why I stopped watching.
Some good stories in this season. I'm hoping this new Arrow is Thea, as I miss her too, though I hope if it is her that they don't just kill her off. Also liked Talia coming back and her Gotham-drop. We know there's a Bruce Wayne on E1 but not whether he is Batman.(?) But Talia's comments lends that there is a vigilante in Gotham. It would be cool if this was not just an Easter-Egg.
The Diggle/Curtis story line was 'ho-hum.' Not bad, but could have done without it too.
I also hope Oliver will be getting out soon, but the question is how? Just because he was victimized in prison does not mean that he didn't commit a crime or not deserve to pay for it. But then I think, this is a CW superhero show and they don't do courtroom drama with any kind of real-world legal mumbo-jumbo.
I thought the sidekick might be the demon too. Did Talia ever confirm herself as that or are people just assuming? I don't recall she used that name.
Yeah, I'm not getting this either.
So Felicity, Laurel and Dinah have evidence that there were experiments happening in prison, and somehow they're going to use that to free Ollie, even though Ollie is locked up per a deal/request by the FBI and his sentence is totally unrelated to the experimentation that went on down there. Unless I'm missing something, nothing on that memory stick is capable of freeing Ollie. I can only conclude that he's released because of a greater threat (Diaz), and then afterwards the FBI decides to give him a second chance? I guess we'll find out in two or three weeks...
Well that’s been my theory since we first heard of the Demon but then this episode happened.
He asked her didn’t she and she nodded in acknowledgment.
I guess she never outright said I am the Demon but she confirmed she conspired to get him down there.
Well maybe she just wanted his help. And maybe Ollie assumed things when she never explictly confirmed.
I am thinking that Ollie's sidekick is going to turn out to be a Keyser Soze type character who is actually running everything.
I can see that happening anyway. I was just referring to who the Demon was. They did say the Demon was on level 2 but as you say she never explicitly confirmed that she did the things that he think she the Demon has done. So maybe she really was the Demon of Level 2 but he is the mastermind behind the Diaz stuff as you say.
I really like how Oliver's been portrayed this season. Very heroic and likeable, even when he's doing things that aren't necessarily right (i.e. assaulting guards). After his feud with most of the team last season, I think we needed something like this, to show his sympathetic side. Loved his interactions with Talia, and glad to see him get to kick butt again, too. Taking on all those guards was pretty awesome. Also, I love the Laurel/Felicity dynamic. It's great and it makes me sad that they didn't interact more while the real Laurel was alive.
Maybe the 'Demon' is a red-herring, just meant to keep Ollie running in circles. There might be no demon, and no I didn't hear Talia say she was the one 'in charge.'
I definitely think it’s a red herring and Oliver is assuming many things.
Those fight scenes with Ollie and talia were such bad ass. They really have good chemistry as actors. Shame they don’t make her a season regular somehow.
I was hoping new green arrow stuff wasn’t actually the same time frame as the prison stuff. The end of the episode when talia killed the doctor, her quiver was greeen. Made me hopefully that she is the new green arrow while Ollie is still in prison. One can only hope.