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Season 7: THE END?

I don't see him as being replaceable at all, no other Superman villian comes close to Lex Luthor, let alone a Lex Luthor with seven years of character delvelopment. Plus a lot of people tend to find the villians a lot more complex and interesting, mainly because I think that most people are inherently good so we know how good guys think, whereas most of us are fascinated by what make the bad guy tick, it's why the Joker, Catwoman and the Penguin feature so much in the Tim Burton Batman films. How can these people committ these atrocities, we want to know.

Then you have too look at their respective journeys, Clarks story was and continues to be very interesting to me, but he went from good to gooder, whereas Lex did a 150 degree change [not 180 because he always had a dark side] from a decent guy to someone on par with Hitler. How can you re-cereate that with someone else?

Not to mention Clark, Lana and the viewer for that matter wouldn't have the same emotional involvment with Brianiac, Bizarro or who ever else you may think can take Lex's place.
 
cmill216 said:
No, but what does that have to do with his impact on Smallville? Would a show just about Chloe work? Or Lana? Or even Clark? As great as Tom is, a show just about him and his family wouldn't fly, simply because it's the depth the supporting characters bring that makes Smallville what it is, not just Clark.

A Chloe show COULD work (Veronica Mars? lol, even though it's getting cancelled this year 99.9%) Lana? Obviously not. Clark/Superman? Are you kidding me? ABSOLUTELY YES.

Labyrinth = ALL Clark and ONE scene with Lex Luthor in a WHEEL CHAIR behind a desk lol (and the other scene at the Talon for a minute, not that important), 1 example, i'm sure there are others, not to mention all the potential a series like that could have, with the right cast obviously.

cmill216 said:
So taking away the "best Lex Luthor ever" from a Superman related series WON'T have a severe negative impact on said series? I completely and utterly doubt that.

It'll obviously have an impact, but a severe one? Doubt it. And it's not "taking away" Lex Luthor, his journey would have ended in Season 7.
 
Kalkai, I fully agree with your opinions about a SV without Lex Luthor. The only character that's NOT replaceable, to me, is Clark Kent. I don't have a problem with a SV without Lex Luthor. I watch SV because of Clark Kent's journey first and foremost. I loved Clark's interaction with Brainiac and I believe there are other villains/storylines that would keep me highly interested.

Oh, and I'd never watch a show that were only about Lex Luthor! Lex Luthor without Clark Kent doesn't appeal to me at all. I've always been a fan of Clark Kent/Superman and always will, independently of the villain he may fight. We had Lex Luthor for years and that's okay. But as long as they keep telling me the story of Clark Kent, I can do without him.

Great posts, kalKai! :up:
 
And it's not "taking away" Lex Luthor, his journey would have ended in Season 7.

That IS taking away Lex Luthor.

And if his journey ends, but the show still somehow tries to go on, you're essentially taking away the second most pivotal character to the series next to your protagonist.
 
And if his journey ends, but the show still somehow tries to go on, you're essentially taking away the second most pivotal character to the series next to your protagonist.

As I already said, it would be a WHOLE NEW SERIES, so again, you wouldn't be taking away anyone. Smallville would end with Season 7, but Clark Kent's/Superman's journey would continue under a new series with a new title.

Anyway this discussion could be a total waste of time, because if there'll be a Season 8, i'm almost certain that Gough & Millar will convince Rosey to stay, and if they don't, they aren't going to stop from making another season just because 1 or 2 cast members (Rosey & Kreuk) leave the show.
 
As I already said, it would be a WHOLE NEW SERIES, so again, you wouldn't be taking away anyone. Smallville would end with Season 7, but Clark Kent's/Superman's journey would continue under a new series with a new title.

Anyway this discussion could be a total waste of time, because if there'll be a Season 8, i'm almost certain that Gough & Millar will convince Rosey to stay, and if they don't, they aren't going to stop from making another season just because 1 or 2 cast members (Rosey & Kreuk) leave the show.

He may have said that as a bargaining chip in his contract negotiations...

Maybe Kreuk's and Rosie's contracts will end after seven, but if the implication is true that Tom is tied to the show for longer, TPTB must be willing to shell out to get the other cast to stay for longer if they are planning on eight.

They can't have two-thirds of their primary triangle leave the show but I guess we'll see.

I bet if they shell out enough, or maybe even hand out some producer credits like GG did with whatshername (the woman who plays the mom, I forget her name), they could probably convince Michael and Kristin to stay.
 
I think taking away any of the core three makes for an entirely different show.

Of course, I'd still watch regardless.
 
I think taking away any of the core three makes for an entirely different show.

Of course, I'd still watch regardless.

Yeah, me too. As long as Tom is still on board, I'll stick with the show but it wouldn't be as much fun without Rosie and Kristin.
 
Interesting discussion here on the importance of good ole Lex Luthor. I think there are many ways to look at the big picture, but two in particular come to mind. Bear with me for a moment as I tell a story...

In 1974, Henry Winkler was cast to play a minor character, Arthur Fonzarelli, in the ABC show Happy Days. He appeared in two short scenes in the pilot episode. In later seasons however, "The Fonz" became SO popular with fans, Winkler moved up in billing second only to Ron Howard. The network even wanted to rename the series, "Fonzie's Happy Days." The situation proved that you never really know what's going to click with an audience.

In the case of Happy Days, Fonzie arguably became The Most Popular Character on the show. And while Happy Days was a comedy, it bears noting that Richie Cunningham was the straight-laced kid, and Fonzie was the older, street-wise bad boy who got what he wanted merely by snapping his fingers. As a viewer living vicariously through the lives of these characters, who would YOU want to be?











*cough*

exile12.jpg


LOL! Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

For some fans, the Happy Days analogy may apply to SV. Rosenbaum's portrayal of Lex Luthor has elevated the character to a more familiar level. Cult status, even. You can kind of see the shift in how the show was perceived to adjust focus in Variety's three major reviews starting in 2001:

10/12/01
"Smallville" [is a show that] depicts Superman as a teenage boy with teenage problems...

For what it is - one more semi-soap opera about beautiful teens with self-esteem troubles - "Smallville's" well produced, and it certainly boasts some impressive special effects in its pilot episode. Ultimately, though, the familiarity of the story might work against the show. As with last season's decent entry "The Fugitive," people may feel they've already seen this before and know where it goes.
http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117916084.html

This review is interesting in that it emphasizes that the show is *about* "teenage Superman." The writer (Steven Oxman) however suggests viewers might get bored with watching something they've already seen and are therefore familiar with.

[Oh man... LMAO!! No comment. *cough*]


9/30/03
"Smallville" is one of those rare shows that has managed to successfully update, and in some instances improve upon, the mythology of a well-known character.
http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117921991.html

Two years later, they're still talking about the focus of the show being on a "well known character," but they're also pointing out how the story changes have improved the mythology. Hey, whatdaya know? Maybe Oxman was wrong; it's not boring after all.


1/18/07
Despite the limitations of a TV budget, "Smallville" has always done a creditable job of bringing convincing production value to its hero and villain-filled world - a standard put to the test by the presence of four sidekicks along with the show's usual strange visitor from another planet.​

Ah, now we're seeing the importance of the four "sidekicks" show up in reviews. Continuing on...

The real skill, however, resides with the storytelling under exec producers Alfred Gough and Miles Millar, who, in essence, have spent the last six years working backward - filling in the gap in the first "Superman" movie between Clark racing through those Kansas cornfields and Superman's John Williams-accompanied flight out of the Fortress of Solitude. Moreover, they have done so while, at times, boldly reimagining DC Comics lore...
http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117932451.html

Thank you, Variety, for reinforcing and confirming some of Gough's recent comments about... well... everything (no need to drag those arguments here - even though I just did :p )


Aight... so what's the attraction to SV? Well, back in 2001 I'd argue it was the Superman angle for me. Um... well... that and other things:

pilot12.jpg


[2001 mindset]
What IS that? Looks... mmmm... uh... interesting. <slurp>

Wait... there's an S on his chest? Is that supposed to be... no! Is that... Superman? Crap! When's that show air!
[/2001 mindset]

I'm guessing I wasn't the only one that had that reaction. So here's the bottom line as it applies to me...

  • Why did I start watching the show? Duh! It was about Superman. The caveat of the specifics - Clark Kent as a teenager - was irrelevant. It was about Superman's early life in Smallville. That was enough for me.
  • Did I give two hoots who the other characters were? Pfft! :rolleyes: :p C'mon, peeps. LOL
  • Was I confused with Lex Luthor being in the show. Yeah, kinda sorta. It was odd, but I got used to it - after about the first ten minutes.
  • Would another "villain" have worked, assuming he was written as well as Lex and had the same charisma and talent of Rosey? Sure. I don't see why not.
  • In retrospect, do I wish it was a different actor or character? Hell no! Michael Rosenbaum is fantastic - the best Lex Luthor ever. Whoda thunk?
  • Would I stop watching the show if MR were replaced or his character left the show entirely? No, of course not, though I admit such a change in line-up would take some getting used to.
  • Why do I continue to watch the show? It's STILL about Superman (despite the protestations of some fans to the contrary LOL)
  • What are the chances I'd continue to watch the show if Welling left? Slim to none.

There ya have it. YMMV. :D
 
Agree to disagree, I guess. I love Mike and the character, and he brings so much to the series. I'm sure Al and Miles could make the show watchable, but it just wouldn't be SV for me.
 
Agree to disagree, I guess. I love Mike and the character, and he brings so much to the series. I'm sure Al and Miles could make the show watchable, but it just wouldn't be SV for me.
This in response to me? If so, I'm not sure if we're in disagreement, Cmill, unless you're saying you'd stop watching if Lex left the show (actor or character?)

w/o Lex, SV *IS* a different show. I totally see that. But while I LOVE the interaction between Clark and Lex (such scenes are usually the highlights of each episode), Lex Luthor is NOT why I watch SV. Perhaps that's the disagreement? I dunno.

Why did you start watching SV, and have your reasons for continuing to watch it changed?
 
Hehe.

This is an interesting debate, so I went and posed this very question ("Would Smallville be the same without Michael Rosenbaum/Lex?") on a public group of regular SV fans. Some of the early responses:


Hell no, his character is as imporant as Clark's.

Looking forward to hearing what others have to say. :up:
 
This in response to me? If so, I'm not sure if we're in disagreement, Cmill, unless you're saying you'd stop watching if Lex left the show (actor or character?)

No, I was responding moreso to Kal, but it's okay.

I don't think I ever stated that I would stop watching. My point has been that it would be such a completely different show for me, that I'm not sure I'd enjoy it nearly as much. For me, it would be so bizarre for Lex's journey to end in Season 7, but the rest of the show goes on. Clark and Lex's stories have run parallel for 6 years, and then to cut off one end of that? I just...*shrugs*

Why did you start watching SV, and have your reasons for continuing to watch it changed?

I started watching it for the whole entity: for Clark and the Superman elements, for Lex Luthor, for the cool effects, and the stories, and the drama. I wasn't caught in the "Barechested Welling" web, unfortunately. ;)

And for me, if you pulled Lex Luthor out of this badboy (and more importantly Michael Rosenbaum), I just couldn't see it working simply because of his impact on the show.

To use a sports analogy, it'd be like the Bulls in the 90s. If you pulled Scottie Pippen (Michael Rosenbaum in this example) off that team, they'd still be a solid team (a decent show) because they have Michael Jordan (Tom Welling), but would it really still be a championship team (how great it is now)?
 
I don't think I ever stated that I would stop watching. My point has been that it would be such a completely different show for me, that I'm not sure I'd enjoy it nearly as much. For me, it would be so bizarre for Lex's journey to end in Season 7, but the rest of the show goes on. Clark and Lex's stories have run parallel for 6 years, and then to cut off one end of that? I just...*shrugs*
Interesting perspective. I'll be honest and say that while I'm curious to see Lex's slow descent to the dark side, it's one of those things I accept as inevitable, but unlike Clark's journey to his destiny, it's just something that happens. Maybe it's because Lex looses his struggle against his demons, which is sad and depressing, whereas Clark's internal battle of discovery has such an uplifting and beautiful outcome? Oh well, I must admit, I do love happy endings.

I started watching it for the whole entity: for Clark and the Superman elements, for Lex Luthor, for the cool effects, and the stories, and the drama.
I went in pretty much "blind." All I knew was what was on the One Sheet: Clark Kent in high school - every story has a beginning. Etc.

...and I really wanted to know what the hell was up with him being "crucified" in that corn field! LOL

I wasn't caught in the "Barechested Welling" web, unfortunately. ;)
Heh. "Not that there'd be anything wrong with that." - Seinfeld

J/K

And for me, if you pulled Lex Luthor out of this badboy (and more importantly Michael Rosenbaum), I just couldn't see it working simply because of his impact on the show.
It's hard to look back to envision alternatives when you have the knowledge of what did happen and are extremely satisfied with what you got. It's much easier to suggest improvements for things that might be deemed failures. For example, in retrospect, I think it would have been a better show if Lana and Chloe were combined into one character. "Chlana?" Lanoe? LOL Whatever. Pick one. Same goes for the actress cast. Either is fine by me. Of course that would have ruled out the whole Lex/Lana story arc, but I digress...

To use a sports analogy, it'd be like the Bulls in the 90s. If you pulled Scottie Pippen (Michael Rosenbaum in this example) off that team, they'd still be a solid team (a decent show) because they have Michael Jordan (Tom Welling), but would it really still be a championship team (how great it is now)?
Awesome analogy. I don't know about Rosey, but I think Tom would truly blush to be analogized to Michael Jordan in anything, never less his role as Clark Kent. Hell... that puts a lump in MY throat.
love.gif
 
Awesome analogy. I don't know about Rosey, but I think Tom would truly blush to be analogized to Michael Jordan in anything, never less his role as Clark Kent. Hell... that puts a lump in MY throat.
love.gif

The comparisons between His Airness and Superman are significant to this Chicagoan.

I saw Michael play during his Bulls dynasty years, and I was able to attend one of the playoff games. The man is a superstar. No doubt. We (my family) actually ran into him outside his restaurant, probably 10 years or so ago. My son talked to him. Unbelievably thrilling.

I was looking for some Michael stuff on youtube and I found this. Notice the interesting SV connections - the kid running through the cornstalks at the beginning, and towards the end you hear the announcer say, "Superman is back in the building."

Now THIS brings a lump to my throat. And what a perfect theme song for both men.
I Believe I Can Fly...
 
The comparisons between His Airness and Superman are significant to this Chicagoan.

I saw Michael play during his Bulls dynasty years, and I was able to attend one of the playoff games. The man is a superstar. No doubt. We (my family) actually ran into him outside his restaurant, probably 10 years or so ago. My son talked to him. Unbelievably thrilling.

I was looking for some Michael stuff on youtube and I found this. Notice the interesting SV connections - the kid running through the cornstalks at the beginning, and towards the end you hear the announcer say, "Superman is back in the building."

Now THIS brings a lump to my throat. And what a perfect theme song for both men.
I Believe I Can Fly...


I always liked that part in SpaceJam when the toons are watching MJ play and they edited the scenes real sharp with him doing dunks to the tune of Fly Like an Eagle... :up:

EDIT: Here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJfnKgfnfd4 (at 6:51 or so)
 
I'm hoping Season 7 is the end, mainly because the show feels like it's stretching itself thin. I don't want it to continue to the point where it becomes a parody of itself. The way I see it is the same way Seinfeld saw his show, better to go out while you're on top instead of dragging yourself out.
 
It would be cool if they have lex get more into political power, and stuff, and have Mike less on the show, and just show like tv ads once in a while in the background about him running for office or something, and focus the show more on Clark Kent getting out of college in season 7 or 8, and goto work at the daily planet.

This way we could focus on that part of Clarks life, add Lois at the planet as his side kick, and if Chloe is still alive her, and Jimmy could still be together to help clark out.

This show could work very well, and this could lead the way to Clark putting on the suit to face someone like DOOMSDAY or LOBO!

This way also you could still bring Lex back for a couple of episodes to have Clark/Superman stop him from doing something evil.

Then have Lex hide what he did, and use his political power to get out of trouble, and stuff lol... Don't know I just really think the show could go on for more then 7 seasons even without Lex, Lana.

Also Not for nothing but every time a person who's the lead in a show leaves the show early or before it really should end their movie careers don't really take off... Remember Xfiles David Duchovny who left after season 7, and the show kept going without him.. 1 the show wasn't the same without him even with the T1000 as a new Agent in the x-files, and 2 David's career went in the toilet after he left the x-files... Or how about David Caruso in NYPD Blue who also left for what looked like a promising movie career only to end up back on tv after a few years, and a few flops.

Tom should ride out this Superman thing for atleast 10 seasons, and get as rich as possible, and do movies on the side like how Michael J Fox used to do back in the 80's, and wear the suit for atleast a full season damnit! lol

This way he won't close doors on himself, and become yesturday tv news like those I pointed out.

The show is still very popular, and the dvd's sell like crazy... I wouldn't doubt if the WB throw alot of money at Tom, and Mike to come back for 7, 8, and maybe 9 seasons.

Besides The CW wouldn't be the same without Smallville! lol
 
Alrighty here's the "project" I alluded to. I know this is the wrong thread but since it pertains to a few posts I'll go with it.

Let me just preface this by saying I've got no video editing skills or fancy software and just worked with what I had. Still, pretty happy about this, hope you guys enjoy it. (Probably isn't quite uploaded yet).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52NKfRrJVQ
 
Alrighty here's the "project" I alluded to. I know this is the wrong thread but since it pertains to a few posts I'll go with it.

Let me just preface this by saying I've got no video editing skills or fancy software and just worked with what I had. Still, pretty happy about this, hope you guys enjoy it. (Probably isn't quite uploaded yet).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52NKfRrJVQ

I had a smile on my face during that whole thing. Loved it.
You should post it in the TW thread.

There are 2 superjumps that I just thought of that you didn't include - the one from Lucy and the one from..<insert title> when he first jumped from building to building.
 
What are you talking about? The show is not called Lex Luthor either. Like MJD pointed out, in the UK it's called Smallville: Superman the Early Years, Welling/Clark comes first in the opening credits, and Clark Kent is the 1 that's practically in EVERY SCENE.

Plot Outline: A young Clark Kent struggles to find his place in the world as he learns to harness his alien powers for good and deals with the typical troubles of teenage life in Smallvile - READ!

It's incredible all the BS you read on the internet by some posters.

And "lexlives" isn't the main character, you're so obsessed with lexlives that you typed out his username instead of Lex Luthor, lol.
now that is very funny :woot:
 

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