Sexism against Men in Media/Entertainment/Culture (Feminism and Misandry Gone Wild)

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I'll just leave this hear again.
SentinelMind said:
No offense, but this poster is useless rhetoric propaganda.

Feminism is not about equality...its about female superiority...we will expose this truth over the course of this dialogue...
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Please, cite some works of feminist theorists that would in any way bear this out.

You wish to critique feminism but you apparently have not a single clue as to what the term indicates. You speak of some conspiracy, of a "feminist agenda" and yet you incorporate exactly 0 of the themes and actions of modern feminist movements. You are, in short, completely operating from a stance of prejudice and literal ignorance.

Feminism, in its many incarnations, is fundamentally a critique of the forces of domination. While originally this was centered around a critique of traditional conceptions and enforcement of patriarchy this has developed to further critiques not just of domination along gender lines, but of sexuality, of race, of class, of age, of ability. Its aim, along with the understanding of such systems is to alleviate the influence of forces marginalization.
 
The Question said:
I don't either. But seeing as how I at no point justified it, I don't see why you're arguing with me about that point. I flat out said that the portrayal of domestic abuse where the man is the victim and the woman was the aggressor was harmful and stems from toxic cultural attitudes. And no point did I ever say that it was in any way beneficial to society. Please point out where you thought I did, because I'd hate to be unclear.
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Your prior posts seem to state that systematic marginalization of men is ok because you perceive women have been getting short hand of stick in past. I'm glad you have confirmed systematic approval of domestic violence against men in commericals and ads...acts that represent 50% of all domestic violence should be condemned and its hypocritical to only condemn violence against one gender. Please help me responding to those such as Parker who keep calling those ads 'hilarious.'


I didn't say violence against men was beneficial to men. It's not. Nothing that is a result of misogynist trends in our society are beneficial to anyone in any way that's healthy. But the stigma against men who've been victims of domestic abuse is a result a cultural trend that, in general, gives men power over women. That is the notion that men are strong and women are weak.
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You seem to keep using term misogynist to mean any situation where men and woman are treated differently.....whereas I'm using only to mean where women are being maligned or attack. I think its poor vocabulary to call ads that use domestic violence against mean as 'misogynist'...that just doesn't make sense based on definition of the word. This semantics game is undermining the discussion...we need consistent definition of terms.


No I'm not. I'm saying that that is what society expects of men, and that's what people usually mean when they say someone is a "real man," and I'm saying that it's wrong and it's harmful to society.


Feminists don't do that at all. Feminists are the ones saying that that notion of masculinity is wrong and harmful to society, because it hurts both men and women.



That's because the two terms are used differently. Feminists use the term "real woman" in defiance of what society expects women to be, that being submissive, emotionally fragile sex objects. People (and by that I mean people who aren't feminists, feminists don't use this phrase that way except when explaining why it's wrong and terrible) use "real man" to dictate what men are allowed to be by societies standards.

One is in defiance of oppression, the other is a form of oppression. They don't come from the same place.
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What it comes down to is that I distinguish between rhetoric feminists use...and the actions and results of their policies. The actions and results clearly indicate a desire for feminine superiority...regardless of rhetoric claiming wanting equality.
 
redhawk23 said:
Please, cite some works of feminist theorists that would in any way bear this out.
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Again, feminist theorist who AREN'T Valerie Solanas. She doesn't count because no credible feminist takes her seriously.
 
SentinelMind said:
I'm stunned how all these responses to unconvential, rather conservative, informed opinions seem to come down to personal attacks. Half this entire page is filled with attacks against me...for no reason because it goes against the conditioned norm talking points.

Men and fathers are systematically being marginalized in our society...and instead of talking about the evidence...let's talk about my avatar. :dry:
The feminist imperative of silencing debate...is working..that even male foot soldiers are on the move.
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The "conditioned talking points" in our society are mostly predominantly male oriented because the venues in which such discussion can take place, in the media and in academia, are almost wholly controlled by men.

Its apparent that you've never actually encountered any actual feminist ideas or theories.

Allow me to introduce a piece from social theorist Patricia Hill Collins about male domination of claims making and discussion in patriarchal societies.

http://www.woldww.net/classes/Principles_of_Inquiry/Collins-AfrocFemEpistemology+.htm
 
And I'm sorry if you took my previous post as personal attack. Really, I was expressing my honest confusion at the premise of the thread, which criticizes feminism by completely disregarding it.
 
Another good point at 2:25....Men must register for draft to vote in UK (in US its just to register for FAFSA for college)...women don't? Why haven't feminists fought for allowing women to be drafted? They certainly have enough power to do so now.
 
My main criticism of feminism is that feminists will fight for rewards, rights, and priveleges for women that men currently have...but will remain conveniently silent when it is about sharing the burden and responsibility to society. That sort of hypocrisy puts men at huge disadvantage and is form of gender-based discrimination...feminism is a hypocritical movement.
 
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*steps into thread and just............................stares*
 
SentinelMind said:
My main criticism of feminism is that feminists will fight for rewards, rights, and priveleges for women that men currently have...but will remain conveniently silent when it is about sharing the burden and responsibility to society. That sort of hypocrisy puts men at huge advantage and is form of gender-based discrimination...feminism is a hypocritical movement.
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Do they? Most of the roles they are fighting for are involved in taking responsibility and leadership in maintaining society. They are attempting to gain access influential positions in business and government. There are women attempting to increase female presence in the military.

They also are arguing for men to take on responsibilities they often find it simply more convenient to separate themselves from, like helping to maintain the household. Families are growing increasingly dependent upon second incomes and yet women are retaining the same domestic, unpaid responsibilities that they had before, and it doesn't really work.
 
Why are some religions filled with Misogyny (including that one in your signature)?
Why is the US government trying to decide what a woman can and cannot do with her body?
Why does media oversexualize women more than men (though it does happen both ways)?
Why do comics cater more to heterosexual men (see the Hawkeye Initiative for some examples)?
Why are most people in the film industry men?
Why are most world leaders men?
Why are most business leaders men?
Why do women not headline as many films as men?
Why are women the ones expected to stay home and take care of babies/children?
Why are women in film often a prize for the man to win?
Why are women often portrayed as damsels in distress who just need a man to take care of them?
 
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Female mutilation and violence towards women is often not only shown as a positive thing, but actually as the only possible action or good for them in our movies, tv shows and especially as of late our video games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toa_vH6xGqs I'm not a fan of Anita Sarkeesians recent videos (They take to about the 20 minute mark to start making their actual arguments) but she does a pretty good job at documenting the most common and problematic of these tropes.
 
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In regards to sexism and double standards, it all balances each other out when it's all said and done. Domestic abuse being a huge deal when a man does it versus when a woman does it is balanced out by women being viewed as weak in various media or everyday life, etc. It isn't politically correct at all nor is it right nor is it fair, but it's the way it is in this current time period. All of these double standards balance each other out.

As for feminism, I find it absolutely attractive when a woman wants to be treated as an equal. Those who play that bulls*** when they want to be treated like a queen yet get offended when they aren't treated as an equal to a man are hypocrites. That right there is having your cake and eating it too. A woman who is strong willed, self-motivated, and aren't waiting for a man to take care of them is attractive. A woman who just wants to get married and pop out babies is a disgrace to all of the women of the past that sacrificed so much in the name of progression. It isn't the pre-1960s.

There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting a man or vice-versa for that matter. There definitely is something wrong with a woman who squanders away the opportunity of self-sufficiency to be dependent on a man that can leave her at any given second. Those women make me sick.
 
wow this thread...it's just wow, let's say the conspiracy was true, why the fear of women being ever so slightly dominant over men? Is it the religious stuff? Head of household, know their place gimmick?
 
Look beyond individual instance though and the reason why domestic violence against women is that it is a systemic problem. It is not only vastly more common but in the past and to an extent even now, society wrote it off as not a problem at all, viewing the women as "deserving it" and seeing it as the husbands place to discipline their wives. It wasn't addressed because it wasn't anyone's place to address by these standards. There was nothing to address.

Many women who suffer from domestic abuse, particularly in the past when women were restricted from seeking gainful employment outside of the home is that they lacked the resources or the skills to escape their situation. For many women, particularly those that find themselves in domestic abuse situations, this is very much still the case.

Residual attitudes of the past make it very difficult to prosecute men who abuse their wives, if it makes it to court in the first place.
 
On a daily basis....I have to say something to a poster on here or delete posts where a male poster is saying the crudest, rudest, most sexist, immature, and offensive things about females.

Just saying.
 
Evelisse said:
wow this thread...it's just wow, let's say the conspiracy was true, why the fear of women being ever so slightly dominant over men? Is it the religious stuff? Head of household, know their place gimmick?
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One of the detriments feminist conspiracy has brought on society is the erosion of the traditional family unit... feminists have pushed for laws that created no-fault divorce....creating default position that women deserve half assets even if they didn't bring in half the assets into marriage (usually don't) but not necessarily half the responsibility in form of divorce.

Feminists have only pushed for advantages for women...not shared responsibility...common theme you'll despite all their posters and rhetoric.

That's why 2 out of 3 divorces are initiated by women...the laws create an incentive for women to walk out of marriage at husband and children's expense. It creates environment that is dissolving the family unit...lowest marriage rates in US history...highest divorce rates...

who suffers from this? children. two parent household best indicator for raising children and preventing deliquency and crime. A gradually decaying society is ripe for the taking from a small elite that want oppress masses that losing self worth and values...
 
Which "traditional" family unit are you so keen on protecting? Families have taken many shapes in different times and places.

The "traditional" model of which you speak has only been held as an ideal for a relatively short time in history and at most only represent half of all families at its peak.

Non-white or non-middle class women have worked outside the home for decades-working in other peoples homes or in factories.


It is an economic reality, in a globalized economy, that families often need more than one income in order provide for themselves.

Women are often required to seek out work outside the home. They are taking on partial responsibility for the economic well being the family while they are still expected by our social standards to fulfill their traditional roles.

The has not been a corresponding shift of men taking on "women's" work. Men remain free of these obligations. It is men who are shirking responsibility.
 
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