Should superheroes (of either gender) be "political"?

[Fantasyartist]

In the wake of the "Civil War" storyline in which the pro-registration school was ultimately victorious, this issue may seem moot, but I think it's a valid question.
In a recently published Fantastic Four novel "What Lies Between" by Peter David, Susan Richards is offered a post in the White House as Director Of Women's Issues by an unnamed President( probably the incumbent, George W.Bush although he is not directly named). Reed protests that this will "politicize" the group in the eyes of the public and Sue ultimately accedes to her husband's views.
My view is that superheroes/heroines( there are more of the former than the latter anyway) should as much as possible be apolitical_ much like the clergy( of all denominations), the Armed Forces, or law enforcement.
Still, accepting the given status quo in a society can be as "political" as overtly endorseing an Administration or its policies-as the Black Panthers(not to be confused with the King of Wakanda) put it-you're either part of the problem or part of the solution. I keep thinking of a Fantastic Four story where Ben, Johnny and the Black Panther visit a minority white supremacist country in Africa, "Rudyarda"( obviously based on apartheid era South Africa) and make their views very well known to all and sundry- compare that to the late Captain America who in a story before his death visited the real life Guantanamo Bay and didn't even allude to the allegations of torture made by former inmates- not since the then Vice President Henry Wallace visited a Stalin era concentration camp and "saw no evil"(in all fairness the Soviets dismantled all the watchtowers and replaced all the emaciated inmates with healthy looking young people) have i observed such a blatant perversion of reality!

it may be argued that explicit "politicizing" detracts from the hero/heroine's mission but I am not certain if in certain circumstances this is a cop out- there are times when even the most apolitical individual has to take a stand!

Anybody think as I do?

Terry

 

[3dman27]

apolitica superheroes is my prefference

 

[SenseiofCheese]

If a superhero/superheroine is of a certain political stance, it doesn't bother me. But if the thing the superhero is most known for, is his/her political stance, it irks me.

 

[Red Mask]

Usually some shade of political idea is expressed in these comics. Some issues won't be on the forefront of the news but it's there. Just by working with SHIELD you're making a political stance. If you work as an outlaw you're making a political stance.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

I would as soon not have to listen to some piss-ant's uninformed opinion be presented through the mouth of what should be a superhero. The originator of this thread declared Cap not needlessly mentioning the behavior of four or five idiots to a division of hard-working and committed heroes as "a blatant perversion of reality." I'm sure Terry spent a lot of time inside that facility with an open mind evaluating what's going on regarding all sides of the issue.
Right.
I'm a little sick of that level of blind stupidity being constantly paraded around as being "socially conscious." And I really, really don't want some self-righteous fool with no actual idea of what's going on aside from what NPR or Katie Couric has told them, misrepresenting the facts just to make themselves feel better about doing absolutely absolutely nothing but sitting on their butt and complaining.

 

[3dman27]

well said

 

[Kitsune]

Heroes should have political leanings, and should be willing to draw attention to issues that mean something to them, but in general they should avoid advocating specific parties or candidates. This is a rule that should apply to any celebrity.

 

[deemar325]

I would as soon not have to listen to some piss-ant's uninformed opinion be presented through the mouth of what should be a superhero. The originator of this thread declared Cap not needlessly mentioning the behavior of four or five idiots to a division of hard-working and committed heroes as "a blatant perversion of reality." I'm sure Terry spent a lot of time inside that facility with an open mind evaluating what's going on regarding all sides of the issue.
Right.
I'm a little sick of that level of blind stupidity being constantly paraded around as being "socially conscious." And I really, really don't want some self-righteous fool with no actual idea of what's going on aside from what NPR or Katie Couric has told them, misrepresenting the facts just to make themselves feel better about doing absolutely absolutely nothing but sitting on their butt and complaining.

Pretty much agree, accept when it comes to issues that affect me personally.

 

[Anubis]

I don't care. Why the f**k not? Just cuz they put on a costume doesn't mean they're not entitled to an opinion. Same with celebs. Their opinion is just as valid as anybody else's, which ultimately is worthless when it really comes down to it. So, Stark running for office on the democrat ticket? Sure why not. Beast as a Secretary on Mutant Affairs under a Republican Pres? Sounds okay to me. Does it matter? No, not really.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Writers often put their opinions into the comics.The characters speak the thoughts of the writers,like Ultimate Captain America for example.

 

[BigTonyBoy]

I personally don't like characters to have a political slant, unless their personality particularly calls for it (like Cap). I don't have a problem with general moral views, but getting into the political spectrum starts to get preachy.

 

[hippie_hunter]

It depends on the character. Characters like Green Arrow and the X-Men need to be political. Others like Batman and Spider-Man should remain apolitical.

 

[Harlekin]

Agreed with most here. Some yes, some no.

 

[gildea]

Writers often put their opinions into the comics.The characters speak the thoughts of the writers,like Ultimate Captain America for example.

Dunno, millar only started hating on the french a long time after "Does this A stand for france?" line...

 

[BrianWilly]

Depends on the character. I don't think the average superhero should be more or less political than the average person. Some more, some less.

What I would hate is for it to be taken out altogether. That would be stupid.

 

[Mladen]

Superheroes are essentially the ultimate symbols of fascism, enforcing the status quo by, well, force. They don't HAVE to openly declare their allegiance to a country (Cap. America), since they do so by their actions (upholding the 'law'). For example, Batman has a strong moral conviction against killing, though he's happy to capture and hand-in a criminal, even when he KNOWS that said criminal will recieve the death sentence. He's willing to betray his STRONGEST DRIVING MORAL CONVICTION as long as its state-sanctioned, and thats as political as you can get. Most superheroes are this way, and its an extension of the writers who fail to realise that their 'heroes' are based on cultural rules and standards, especially adherence to the law. Nearly every single mainstream comic is political without even realising it.

A writer who recognises this problem and attempts to deal with it by placing a hero in a literally political situation is attempting to deal with the problem of the fascist superhero head on. There are more subtle ways to do it though... Punisher being one.

Warren Ellis' new Black Summer looks like it'll be an excellent examination of patriotism.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Superheroes are essentially the ultimate symbols of fascism, enforcing the status quo by, well, force. They don't HAVE to openly declare their allegiance to a country (Cap. America), since they do so by their actions (upholding the 'law'). For example, Batman has a strong moral conviction against killing, though he's happy to capture and hand-in a criminal, even when he KNOWS that said criminal will recieve the death sentence. He's willing to betray his STRONGEST DRIVING MORAL CONVICTION as long as its state-sanctioned, and thats as political as you can get. Most superheroes are this way, and its an extension of the writers who fail to realise that their 'heroes' are based on cultural rules and standards, especially adherence to the law. Nearly every single mainstream comic is political without even realising it.

A writer who recognises this problem and attempts to deal with it by placing a hero in a literally political situation is attempting to deal with the problem of the fascist superhero head on. There are more subtle ways to do it though... Punisher being one.

Warren Ellis' new Black Summer looks like it'll be an excellent examination of patriotism.

And here we have someone who needs to look up the word facsism. (Of course the argument can be made that in Tony Stark's post Civil War world, superheroes represent fascism, but let's forget that poorly thought-out turd of a story and stick with historical "superheroes") Being vigilantes, they are not instruments of the state. Fascism occurs when the state takes over everything and tells you how you can act and what you can read through legislation.
Of course Mladen is correct that there are more subtle ways to take on the issue of fascism. It makes me wish Joey had a subtle mind.

 

[BrianWilly]

Superheroes are essentially the ultimate symbols of fascism, enforcing the status quo by, well, force. They don't HAVE to openly declare their allegiance to a country (Cap. America), since they do so by their actions (upholding the 'law'). For example, Batman has a strong moral conviction against killing, though he's happy to capture and hand-in a criminal, even when he KNOWS that said criminal will recieve the death sentence. He's willing to betray his STRONGEST DRIVING MORAL CONVICTION as long as its state-sanctioned, and thats as political as you can get. Most superheroes are this way, and its an extension of the writers who fail to realise that their 'heroes' are based on cultural rules and standards, especially adherence to the law. Nearly every single mainstream comic is political without even realising it.

This right here is absolutely cuckolded ridiculous. By your logic, Superman also betrays his strongest moral conviction whenever whenever he drops off some crooks at the local police. And so does Spider-Man, and so do the X-Men, and so does every single other superhero in existence who doesn't believe in slaughtering criminals with their bare hands but has no problem with the state enforcing its own laws. Batman doesn't believe in acting as judge jury and executioner on his own vigilantism terms, but why should he interfere with the affairs of the state as they were voted into being by the people? And what in the world does that possibly have to do with fascism?

And another thing...how many villains have you seen the GCPD or any other place in the DCU actually execute? Would that be...none, or a little less than none? Most of Batman's rogues are lunatics who get placed in an asylum, anyway.

 

[Mladen]

And here we have someone who needs to look up the word facsism. (Of course the argument can be made that in Tony Stark's post Civil War world, superheroes represent fascism, but let's forget that poorly thought-out turd of a story and stick with historical "superheroes") Being vigilantes, they are not instruments of the state. Fascism occurs when the state takes over everything and tells you how you can act and what you can read through legislation.
Of course Mladen is correct that there are more subtle ways to take on the issue of fascism. It makes me wish Joey had a subtle mind.

The concept of law itself is fascist, and I don't mean in the derogotory sense. Strengthening the society through eliminating individual abberations which seem counterproductive or just undesireable. Very simply, it tells us that we don't know whats good for us. It tells us exactly how fast to drive, how little we're allowed to wear in public, exactly what films we can watch at what age, how old we can be until we smoke/drink, tells certain people they cannot marry each other, and enforces the suppression of these individual freedoms.

The hero is symbolic of maintaining the status quo through enforcing government-imposed law. The superhero is the ideal fascist symbol because he/she not only maintains the status-quo through overt acts of violence, but elevates it to a mythic level in the eyes of the public. They maintain the law, and often rob the individual criminal of personal freedoms which are owed to them. Its un-sanctioned fascism, and the police and most government people in the comics dont have a problem with it.

The law is the average superhero's moral imperative, no matter how much we'd like to believe otherwise. In cases where the hero acts on his or her moral imperative at odds with the state sanctioned law (for example, the Punisher killing rapists, or Batman beating up some mugger to a bloody pulp, or maybe me executing somebody for running a red light) they classify as a vigilante. If they're simply arresting criminals, all they're doing is conducting a glorified citizen's arrest, which is not outside the letter of the law.

The state is still the final judgement, since Superman and Batman and all of them still hand over the criminal to the police at the end of the story. Neither dispel justice, thats for the LAW to decide. Otherwise Superman would have a prison in his fortress of solitude, then or he'd just melt people's faces off. The end message of most comic stories is that the government is the true justice: the superheroes are just agents of it. The superhero, even as an ultimate symbol of individual power, is still subject to the will of the state. Most heroes may have a moral problem with murder, except when its state sanctioned (such as war, or the execution of a criminal). With great power, comes great responsibility to maintain state law.

I'm rambling.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Yes, you are.

Because only an anarchist typifies "the law" as being fascist.

The law, in our society, is the agreement through which we all get to live/work together. Fascism is imposed. You are using the word incorrectly.

 

[Mladen]

"The law, in our society, is the agreement through which we all get to live/work together. Fascism is imposed. You are using the word incorrectly."

You fail to see that there's no distinction between the 'imposed' laws in a fascist society and laws in our own. In neither is the law defined by mutual agreement. In our society its a simple case of majority wins. The individuals who do not conform with the same ideals have no reprieve. A law they do not agree with is imposed on them, and they have no say otherwise. Homosexuals may not marry, smokers cannot smoke in bars, groups of teenagers cannot stand innocently together in a public place.

The only difference is that in one case a minority decides the law, while in the other it is a majority which decides the law. The principle is the same.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

But you fail to see that those things you've listed may (and will) change with time. It is due to participation. By choosing to live in this country, you are free to participate in the type of change you want.

It is absolutly NOT the same principle.

But I can only point out your error in just so many ways. If you persist in not choosing to grasp what fascism actually is and want to lable anything in society that you personally disagree with as "fascism" go right ahead. Just realize that others, better aquainted with the terminology you are using, will know that you are wrong.

Representative democracy is not fascism. Merely calling it fascism does not make it so.

 

[Steve Rogers]

I don't see a problem with heroes being involved in politics depending on how it's done. Technically lawyers are politicians in the sense that they work in --what's the word? Not upholding the law...but Well they are well versed in the Constitution and both Matt Murdock and Jennifer Walters have excelled as lawyers. The problem would be with politicians/lawyers bending the law for their own good. But I don't see superheroes doing that. Super villains, maybe.

 

[gildea]

The law, in our society, is the agreement through which we all get to live/work together. Fascism is imposed. You are using the word incorrectly.

It's not an agreement though, it's a majority rule. People don't agree to abide by laws they have to until they are in position to change them but there is no guarantee that people will ever be in that position.

Not that that makes it fascism but thats another discussion.

 

[Penismightier]

I think they have to be, to some extent. I mean, every superhero has an ideal they try to live up to. Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man all have their ideals of what justice should be and try to uphold those ideals. Now, those ideals could be interpreted as a political stance. In someone's opinion, not mine, I can see someone interpreting Batman as being more fascist than Superman because of the methods Batman employs. I would disagree, but I can see the point.

Now that being said, what I would not want is blatant pandering to a political party. A comic book character extolling the virtues of the Democratic or Republican party would be the wrong forum to present your leanings. Superheroes aren't tools for a political party, they're meant to be enjoyed by everyone.