Should they make another Punisher movie?

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War Zone missed the character's point. That's why it sucked. It showed nothing of any understanding of the character. It saw the violence in the MAX books and just went "YEA! VIOLENCE!" without acknowledging the story.

Let's not blame everything on the lack of pathos; War Zone also sucked for many other reasons, like godawful acting, garish lighting, etc.

In any case, i still dont see why people hated the '04 Punisher film. Even if i didnt know this was a comic adaptation, it was a good film on its own.Its funny cause alot of mainstream critics say the film was too dark and morose and the fans say it wasn't dark enough. lol

Most of the complaints leveled against it were of the "Why is it set in Florida?" variety, or other cases where it differs significantly from the comic. I also remember a lot of comparisons to low budget straight-to-dvd flicks which I personally disagree with. But eh. Not everyone has to like it.

Man, talking about it makes me really wish Marvel would go after Tom again. Just skip the origin, or rehash it in the opening credits like Incredible Hulk and proceed. Would be awesome.
 
I agree, get Tom back as Punisher cause lets face it, Hung is not doing it for him (no pun intended).
 
It saw the violence in the MAX books and just went "YEA! VIOLENCE!" without acknowledging the story.
I'm a fellow fan of the Tom Jane film, oddly I haven't gotten a chance to see Warzone, but I do see lots of negative things about it. When making a Punisher film, the first question shouldn't be "How much violence does this need?" but rather, what story and subject manner am I going to tell and how am I going to weave Frank into it? That is my main worry everytime a new Punisher project is announced.

For me, I've seen a lot of 80s action and Revenge Flicks, but I always came back to Frank because it went beyond being personal; he doesn't just hang up the skull after avenging his family, he just never stops, he knows he'll never win, but he wants to make as much difference as possible. I see Frank as a cold and "dead man"; emotions, mercy, pity, they're all gone, replaced by a mechanical analysis. What I feel needs to be done to avoid him being 1 dimensional is to still have him reflect through narration and comparison. I always loved how personal he took violence and abuse of women; I could almost see him imagining his daughter or his wife in a situation like that and thus going on the war path. He may be "dead" but he's still conscious; he has thoughts and opinions; I remember when he was killing a few Russian thugs he noted one of them started to cry and say the Lord's Prayer. Frank said:


"The Lord's Prayer...I'd recognize it in any language.."

He gave him a second to finish it before killing him; I found it interesting because Frank, formerly being a significantly religious individual, took a moment to reflect on that moment and was not slaughtering everything like a programmed automaton; what would have made things bland for me is if he did not think about that, but rather just silently exterminated the thugs and then have the panel change. He may not have felt mercy, or pity, but rather it was a moment that got his attention, he found it interesting and then finished him. If that scene was in a movie I could see a bit of an expansion being given to his thought patterns; afterwards he could have a minor day dream as to what things would be like if he did fully go into the priesthood. He may see himself in that alternate life listening to someone's confessional. Either way, my point is, have him like an inquisitive machine/ Terminator interacting with things foreign to him; he understands pain, evil, good, begging for mercy, what have you, but it still should feel somewhat foreign to him and something that drifts past him; like the T1000's manner of studying people, stopping to take a closer look at their pain or resilience, filing it in his memory and soldier on, not gaining sympathy. To make Frank interesting is to have him reflect on what he's doing and the little bits of humanity he sees around him. Either way, he should be brutal, but not souless and bland.

Eep, sorry for the massive ramble. :woot:
 
this is what you people dont get.

you dont have to like Frank...you just have to hate the villian more. thats what i loved about the MAX series. Frank turned into an efficiently,ruthless killing machine that was simply a murderer but he was on OUR side. he killed the people who do even worse things and he did it brutally, without remorse or care. he used to be a man who did it to avenge his family but over time he simply lost his soul to what he does. there have been hints in the MAX series that Frank had this inside all along and just needed an excuse to release it. read Born to see what they mean.

point is that the difference between The Punisher and any vigilante movie is that Frank doesnt do it to avenge anyone or to save the day or to even get recognition, he just does it because he finds himself at peace when he punishes evil men.

when we see the Punisher on screen we need to tell ourselves to hate him for his brutally and his merciless ways of doing things...but we wish we could be him, wish to to kill off all the scum that walk our streets and run the underworld, those people who do far more terrible things. we cant do anything...but Frank can.

You know your Castle my friend...but I don't know if that will translate well to a film going audience. In an ongoing monthly series that has years to run, yes. In fact, that was the thrust of the Ennis stuff. Frank had been Punisher so long that there really wasn't much Frank left, only The Punisher. But a movie audience getting their 1.5 to 2 hour "bite size chunk" needs a greater connection to the character.

'04 was sooo close to getting a sequel. It wasn't a smash hit, but it was good enough and proved successful enough theatrically and particularly on DVD to warrant a follow up. It was one of those movies that some people managed to catch on DVD and thought "I missed this one in the theater, but it was actually an entertaining movie". The sequel could have proved successful. But no one was satisfied with the direction of that sequel, even Jane, so by the time it finally came out it was a load of fecal. I wish they had gotten it together. Jane didn't actually "become" the punisher until the very end of the film and I would have liked to see where that went. It's just too bad that Lion's gate drug it's feet, because I think the sequel could have been great.
 
You know your Castle my friend...but I don't know if that will translate well to a film going audience. In an ongoing monthly series that has years to run, yes. In fact, that was the thrust of the Ennis stuff. Frank had been Punisher so long that there really wasn't much Frank left, only The Punisher. But a movie audience getting their 1.5 to 2 hour "bite size chunk" needs a greater connection to the character.

'04 was sooo close to getting a sequel. It wasn't a smash hit, but it was good enough and proved successful enough theatrically and particularly on DVD to warrant a follow up. It was one of those movies that some people managed to catch on DVD and thought "I missed this one in the theater, but it was actually an entertaining movie". The sequel could have proved successful. But no one was satisfied with the direction of that sequel, even Jane, so by the time it finally came out it was a load of fecal. I wish they had gotten it together. Jane didn't actually "become" the punisher until the very end of the film and I would have liked to see where that went. It's just too bad that Lion's gate drug it's feet, because I think the sequel could have been great.

haha thanks man, I am not all knowing when it comes to The Punisher, i still have many stories to read, but I am definitely an admirer and a total fan of the MAX run because it is such a deep,dark,gritty series that explore more of Frank than anyone ever thought of.

The 04 Punisher was a start, the shoot out at the end, though not efficient or perfect, showed glimpses of where Frank would head. in the MAX series hes been doing this for 30 years and its to a point that he can predict his enemies to the exact action and he becomes a machine that runs and never stops. I hope Marvel either goes the origin route again, be it Vietnam and make its Born for one half and Year One for the other, or just pick up some time into his run as The Punisher and give us The Slavers or something.

if Marvel wants to tie SHIELD and the MU into the Punisher i say they do Mother Russia or something along those lines.
 
lol at rottentomatoes

The Punisher:

RottenTomatoes said:
Consensus: A good cast fails to elevate this overly violent and by-the-numbers revenge flick.


So, they think that The Punisher 2004 is overly violent when they dont think that about Punisher Warzone? Yeah Warzone has a lower score there but the fact that they claim 2004 is overly violent is just stupid. Fans complained that it wasnt violent enough xD
 
Jon Hamm all the way for Me also this may just be me but i felt Death Sentence is a better revenge flick than any Punisher film
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I bought the Extended Cut and loved it in comparison to the original which I also loved. However I was very upset that they actually REMOVED the scenes where he is in Puerto Rico with his family. It cuts out the part with Roy Schneider (probably misspelled his last name), the intro to the "witch doctor" and the family reunion dinner and cuts straight to the part with Frank and Maria looking at their son and saying "lets have another"

I felt that the removal of these scenes which I believed were very important because it made it a bit sadder in my opinion. I dont understand why they were removed to begin with which is what upsets me because it was just extremely pointless to remove it in my opinion.

Anyone else upset with this removal?
 
the extended cut has those removals? or you talking about the theatrical cut?
 
I didn't notice either. I may have to go back and compare them.
 
Nevermind. Its a long story that led to the error on my part. Yeah the Extended Cut didnt cut it out.
 
So, they think that The Punisher 2004 is overly violent when they dont think that about Punisher Warzone? Yeah Warzone has a lower score there but the fact that they claim 2004 is overly violent is just stupid. Fans complained that it wasnt violent enough xD

Well it's tone too. It's not as bloody or gratuitous as PWZ, but the tone in which the violence is inflicted is more uncomfortable and slow. The movie makes you think there is more violence than there is. PWZ just played it off as a cartoon.
 
Got back from the Expendables (thought it a definite step down from RAMBO and was full of ****** Bourne style action editing amongst other problems that I know for a fact were things that never played that way in the '80s). I'm not sure if I'd want to see Stallone direct the Punisher now. If he strayed from the shaky cam cinematography for actions scenes(because what is the point of making an action movie if you can't see or comprehend the action scenes?!) and the CGI blood(because it looked really fake here), then maybe he could direct it. But as of now, no Stallone. Gimme Walter Hill.

But i saw the trailer again for The Town and Jon Hamm really impressed me in the trailer. If Marvel didn't bring back Tom Jane in any capacity, i'd be all for Jon Hamm as The Punisher. He's got the look and his voice works fine too.
 
Got back from the Expendables (thought it a definite step down from RAMBO and was full of ****** Bourne style action editing amongst other problems that I know for a fact were things that never played that way in the '80s). I'm not sure if I'd want to see Stallone direct the Punisher now. If he strayed from the shaky cam cinematography for actions scenes(because what is the point of making an action movie if you can't see or comprehend the action scenes?!) and the CGI blood(because it looked really fake here), then maybe he could direct it. But as of now, no Stallone. Gimme Walter Hill.

But i saw the trailer again for The Town and Jon Hamm really impressed me in the trailer. If Marvel didn't bring back Tom Jane in any capacity, i'd be all for Jon Hamm as The Punisher. He's got the look and his voice works fine too.
 
i think The Expendables was him being experimental...but as a director he definitely has shown he is capable with Rambo and Rocky.
 
i think The Expendables was him being experimental...but as a director he definitely has shown he is capable with Rambo and Rocky.

I don't know. He showed capability with Rocky and Rambo, but The Expendables felt like a step down. The script was terrible, with villains I couldn't hate if I wanted to, unexplored depth of characters and what they do(which is why Mickey Rourke and that wonderful scene between him and Stallone was the best part of the movie and why Rourke was the best part of the movie), lack of any real motivation, plot points that are never followed up.

If you wanna make something simple, make something simple. Somehow, a very simple movie became far too complicated.

and just quit it with the shaky cam. Really. It's annoying and I hate the Bourne films for popularizing it. It's seizure inducing, not adrenaline pumping.
 
Well it's tone too. It's not as bloody or gratuitous as PWZ, but the tone in which the violence is inflicted is more uncomfortable and slow. The movie makes you think there is more violence than there is. PWZ just played it off as a cartoon.

Dave's torture scene always gets me. Not a lot in the way of blood and whatnot but it's way more effective than anything in War Zone.

Ah screw it, I gotta watch it now.:awesome:
 
Dave's torture scene always gets me. Not a lot in the way of blood and whatnot but it's way more effective than anything in War Zone.

Ah screw it, I gotta watch it now.:awesome:

Yeah, they even cut away from it when Glass really starts getting into and you hear Dave screaming and pleading, and then returns during the aftermath. That was more effective than actually showing the act.
 
I don't know. He showed capability with Rocky and Rambo, but The Expendables felt like a step down. The script was terrible, with villains I couldn't hate if I wanted to, unexplored depth of characters and what they do(which is why Mickey Rourke and that wonderful scene between him and Stallone was the best part of the movie and why Rourke was the best part of the movie), lack of any real motivation, plot points that are never followed up.

If you wanna make something simple, make something simple. Somehow, a very simple movie became far too complicated.

and just quit it with the shaky cam. Really. It's annoying and I hate the Bourne films for popularizing it. It's seizure inducing, not adrenaline pumping.

well i paid for something resembling an 80's man flick so i enjoyed every aspect of The Expendables haha

i do agree though, i hate that Shaky cam **** SO much...
 
I agree, get Tom back as Punisher cause lets face it, Hung is not doing it for him (no pun intended).

Although I think most people would be happy with that, I really think this is quite impossible and delving on it will only make us more bitter.
 
I hate 2004's Punisher. It's a decent action flick but with Tom "Angel's face" Jane in the role of a supervigilante ruthless and bad...And a villain played by John Travolta in a way ridicolous.

Ah, if they used Will Patton as the villain...And if they mix the screenplay with Michael France's one (who is more faithful than that piece of s..t!).

War Zone was more faithful and have a good Punisher (Ray Stevenson is Punisher) but awful acting, awful screenplay, awful dialogues, awful ending.

The score for both are really good but i hate both of them. Two fails for a Punisher's fan. I ever think a real true Punisher can't talk very well about one of the two because are both extremely bad. I actually still wait to see the true Punisher on the big screen. No a only-hard violent movie with no plot and awful acting. No a sunny adaptation with an actor who's looks like my undefended next door and faithful to comics like Man-Thing's movie was.

I hope Marvel Studios can bring Punisher justice.
 
I hate 2004's Punisher. It's a decent action flick but with Tom "Angel's face" Jane in the role of a supervigilante ruthless and bad...And a villain played by John Travolta in a way ridicolous.

Ah, if they used Will Patton as the villain...And if they mix the screenplay with Michael France's one (who is more faithful than that piece of s..t!).

War Zone was more faithful and have a good Punisher (Ray Stevenson is Punisher) but awful acting, awful screenplay, awful dialogues, awful ending.

The score for both are really good but i hate both of them. Two fails for a Punisher's fan. I ever think a real true Punisher can't talk very well about one of the two because are both extremely bad. I actually still wait to see the true Punisher on the big screen. No a only-hard violent movie with no plot and awful acting. No a sunny adaptation with an actor who's looks like my undefended next door and faithful to comics like Man-Thing's movie was.

I hope Marvel Studios can bring Punisher justice.

you're dead wrong because many of us Punisher fans actually love the 04 version.
 
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