Should they make another Punisher movie?

[co2]

My girlfriend is a fan of Stevenson's from his turn on the series Rome and she actually rented War Zone from Netflix so we could watch it tonight.
I showed her the '04 film previously and she thought it was ok..but after tonight she was in agreement that War Zone was just B-A-D. (It was actually worse than I remeber it being).
I explained to her that I think Lion's Gate pumped out that piece of garbage before the rights reverted back to Marvel and that there might be yet a 4th Punisher movie...and she brought up the question on who would play Frank now. Both of us were stumped!

 

[Ipodman]

Yea... the more you watch PWZ... the worst it gets. Its like Fantastic Four, the dialogue is horrible among other problems.Tom Jane's movie wasnt bad at all imo.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

My girlfriend is a fan of Stevenson's from his turn on the series Rome and she actually rented War Zone from Netflix so we could watch it tonight.
I showed her the '04 film previously and she thought it was ok..but after tonight she was in agreement that War Zone was just B-A-D. (It was actually worse than I remeber it being).
I explained to her that I think Lion's Gate pumped out that piece of garbage before the rights reverted back to Marvel and that there might be yet a 4th Punisher movie...and she brought up the question on who would play Frank now. Both of us were stumped!

ive only seen it once since i saw it in theaters...im kinda afraid to go back. The 04 one i can watch without a problem though.

as for who should play Frank...read up the last couple of pages

 

[comicfan4Life]

i agree

Bradstreet's work come to life! If not Superman, Batman, or any other hero then make him Frank!

 

[Punisher_MAX]

its scary how much he looks like Bradstreet's work.

 

[lou2099]

They could bring back Dolph Lundgren. He's about the right age and might have a career resurgence with the Expendables.

 

[Microchip]

They could bring back Dolph Lundgren. He's about the right age and might have a career resurgence with the Expendables.

Keep in mind there's a pretty good chance Expendables will bomb.

I wouldn't mind seeing Liev Schreiber as The Punisher. Thought he looked good in a trench in Wolverine

 

[Punisher_MAX]

The Expendables seems to be doing pretty well

 

[co2]

Keep in mind there's a pretty good chance Expendables will bomb.

It likely won't be technically a "good" movie, but it has a good gimmick it is banking on, so I don't think it will bomb in any way.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

an homage to mindless 80's action flicks is a win in my book. those old movies were bad but i loved every second of them.

 

[ALP]

Keep in mind there's a pretty good chance Expendables will bomb.

I wouldn't mind seeing Liev Schreiber as The Punisher. Thought he looked good in a trench in Wolverine

Why is there a good chance it will bomb?

There's been a bit of buzz.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

just came back from The Expendables...HOLY **** THAT WAS AWESOME

 

[kguillou]

I have to ask...what was so bad about the 2004 Punisher movie? I saw it recently and freakin loved it. Not only was Thomas Jane a GREAT punisher but the story was actually very well written too. Sure, John Travolta wasn't the best in his role, but on a whole this was a really good movie. Why is this movie so maligned?

 

[Project862006]

was'nt dark enough imo

 

[Whiskey Tango]

'04 Punisher worked pretty well for me without being extra-heavy on the grimdark. Hensleigh made the best of a bad situation despite the low budget and time constraints. Jane was great & so were Frank's neighbors. Travolta and Will Patton turned in entertaining performances as well. And don't even get me started on teh Russian fight.

I think it's awesome as a nod to 70's/80's crime and revenge films, with a dash of spaghetti western. As a pure Punisher film, it strays from the source material significantly whereas War Zone is more comics accurate and yet remains a steaming turd of a movie.

Yeah, it's safe to say I like '04 Punisher more and more as the years go by.

 

[kguillou]

But i think its damn near impossible to make an interesting Punisher film unless you take some creative liberties with Frank Castle. I mean in the comics, the guy is so one-dimensional and shallow that audiences wouldnt sympathize with him. Thomas jane put on a performance that really made you feel for the guy and understand his dark turn. If they were to straight adapt the book then it would be 2 hours of shooting and nonsensical violence (behold Punisher Warzone) I think '04 Punisher was the perfect model of how to do a Punisher film. I really dont get why it doesnt get more praise.

 

[Sub-Zero]

i think the punisher's kind of appeal was dwindling back in the late 80s b/c every action movie was about a guy who loses his family and goes on a one man mission for vengeance/punishment. it's been done to death. the punisher's only difference to those action heroes is that he wheres a skull insigna on his chest.

i think burton's batman came out before the 89 punisher, and batman kinda created a tangent to where action films would go from 89 to the present. the punisher just doesn't seem to belong there. i really doubt they'll keep beating that dead horse. marvel's already pretty cheap as is. i don't see it happening.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

this is what you people dont get.

you dont have to like Frank...you just have to hate the villian more. thats what i loved about the MAX series. Frank turned into an efficiently,ruthless killing machine that was simply a murderer but he was on OUR side. he killed the people who do even worse things and he did it brutally, without remorse or care. he used to be a man who did it to avenge his family but over time he simply lost his soul to what he does. there have been hints in the MAX series that Frank had this inside all along and just needed an excuse to release it. read Born to see what they mean.

point is that the difference between The Punisher and any vigilante movie is that Frank doesnt do it to avenge anyone or to save the day or to even get recognition, he just does it because he finds himself at peace when he punishes evil men.

when we see the Punisher on screen we need to tell ourselves to hate him for his brutally and his merciless ways of doing things...but we wish we could be him, wish to to kill off all the scum that walk our streets and run the underworld, those people who do far more terrible things. we cant do anything...but Frank can.

 

[Daredevil]

Honestly when it really comes down to it, it was those of us who were the fans of the 2004 film who got screwed over the worst. We were the one who went to the theater multiple times and we were the numbers who bought enough DVDs to green light a sequel. Yet we instead got a reboot that spat in the face of everything we enjoyed about the character and the 2004 film. While many of the fans who despised the 2004 film, never saw in the theater, nor bought the DVD got a lame action movie that appealed to them and a version of the Punisher that they enjoyed. Kind of unfair in my opinion.

 

[CrimsonMist]

this is what you people dont get.

you dont have to like Frank...you just have to hate the villian more. thats what i loved about the MAX series. Frank turned into an efficiently,ruthless killing machine that was simply a murderer but he was on OUR side. he killed the people who do even worse things and he did it brutally, without remorse or care. he used to be a man who did it to avenge his family but over time he simply lost his soul to what he does. there have been hints in the MAX series that Frank had this inside all along and just needed an excuse to release it. read Born to see what they mean.

point is that the difference between The Punisher and any vigilante movie is that Frank doesnt do it to avenge anyone or to save the day or to even get recognition, he just does it because he finds himself at peace when he punishes evil men.

when we see the Punisher on screen we need to tell ourselves to hate him for his brutally and his merciless ways of doing things...but we wish we could be him, wish to to kill off all the scum that walk our streets and run the underworld, those people who do far more terrible things. we cant do anything...but Frank can.

Exactly.

And to add on top of that, I love it when Frank reflects on what he's doing and what life could have been, who he could have been, had his family not been killed. Long Cold Dark is my favorite Punisher story ever for that very reason. You CAN sympathize with Frank Castle. You feel the guy's pain. But you can't quite sympathize with what he's turned into. You can sympathize with Frank Castle. You can't with The Punisher.

With arguments like "He's so one dimensional!" it really makes me wonder if these people have read any Punisher comics at all?

And once again, once you get past the origins, The Punisher is fair game for cinematic treatment.

 

[Tony]

Yes to another movie, The Punisher is one of my favorite comic book characters. I would never say no to another Punisher movie.

 

[Guhndoi]

They should have just made the sequels to the 2004 movie.

For me, the 04 movie was just the origin where Frank is still Frank, not actually "The Punisher". even though he would call himself that. It would have been the sequel where we see him sink deeper into the darkness that resides in his soul. The third would have been where Frank loses himself to the Punisher Persona. That would have been THE Punisher movie.

2004 Punisher - Origin, revenge story.
2007 Punisher - Events shape Frank into an even more ruthless Punisher.
2010 Punisher - There is no Frank, only, THE PUNISHER.

Those are the years I imagined the sequels would have been released.

 

[kguillou]

this is what you people dont get.

you dont have to like Frank...you just have to hate the villian more. thats what i loved about the MAX series. Frank turned into an efficiently,ruthless killing machine that was simply a murderer but he was on OUR side. he killed the people who do even worse things and he did it brutally, without remorse or care. he used to be a man who did it to avenge his family but over time he simply lost his soul to what he does. there have been hints in the MAX series that Frank had this inside all along and just needed an excuse to release it. read Born to see what they mean.

point is that the difference between The Punisher and any vigilante movie is that Frank doesnt do it to avenge anyone or to save the day or to even get recognition, he just does it because he finds himself at peace when he punishes evil men.

when we see the Punisher on screen we need to tell ourselves to hate him for his brutally and his merciless ways of doing things...but we wish we could be him, wish to to kill off all the scum that walk our streets and run the underworld, those people who do far more terrible things. we cant do anything...but Frank can.

Yeah but here's my problem with the Punisher. I've read alot of Ennis' take on him and i couldnt stand it because he wrote him as this one-note, ultra violent killing machine. Now i LOVE blood and murder just as much as the next reader but whats the point if there's no emotional or moral journey? I shouldnt be absolutely disgusted by the character's actions, i should be able to sympathize with him on some level. There should be at least some level of humanity to work with.

Take someone like Jack Bauer for instance. For anyone who's watched 24, the show has been one long emotional journey for Jack. Throughout the show Jack got darker and darker because of the continuous tragedies he endured. By the last season, he was pretty much the Punisher, killing everything in his path without discrimination. But you felt for Jack and understood him, and even in his darkest hours, you still saw his humanity and he never let his demons completely consume him. This is the problem I have with Punisher and why the '04 film was so good imo. That movie gave u a reason to root for him and understand why he was on his dark path. I feel like thats what the comics are lacking, give the readers something to latch onto in order to root for character.

I mean at the end of the day, its all preference, but i think if your going to do a Punisher movie, you need to make the character a little more sympathetic and show the audience that theres a method to the madness instead of just madness. Warzone gave you none of that but the '04 movie did. You can have a character that dishes out ruthless, bloody vengeance and still have his humanity at the same time, like Jack Bauer. But if there's no character journey involved then whats the point?

 

[CrimsonMist]

Yeah but here's my problem with the Punisher. I've read alot of Ennis' take on him and i couldnt stand it because he wrote him as this one-note, ultra violent killing machine. Now i LOVE blood and murder just as much as the next reader but whats the point if there's no emotional or moral journey? I shouldnt be absolutely disgusted by the character's actions, i should be able to sympathize with him on some level. There should be at least some level of humanity to work with.

Take someone like Jack Bauer for instance. For anyone who's watched 24, the show has been one long emotional journey for Jack. Throughout the show Jack got darker and darker because of the continuous tragedies he endured. By the last season, he was pretty much the Punisher, killing everything in his path without discrimination. But you felt for Jack and understood him, and even in his darkest hours, you still saw his humanity and he never let his demons completely consume him. This is the problem I have with Punisher and why the '04 film was so good imo. That movie gave u a reason to root for him and understand why he was on his dark path. I feel like thats what the comics are lacking, give the readers something to latch onto in order to root for character.

I mean at the end of the day, its all preference, but i think if your going to do a Punisher movie, you need to make the character a little more sympathetic and show the audience that theres a method to the madness instead of just madness. Warzone gave you none of that but the '04 movie did. You can have a character that dishes out ruthless, bloody vengeance and still have his humanity at the same time, like Jack Bauer. But if there's no character journey involved then whats the point?

But that's just it. Had they made a sequel to the 2004 film, what would have been but Frank in full on Punisher mode? You know his origin and that's what drives him. That and that only.

There's a certain dark depth to the Punisher. It's very subtle. Once again, go read Long, Cold Dark. That to me is the ultimate Punisher story. You really get inside Frank's head in that one. There's something identifiably human to him, but you don't want to be that close to it. The Punisher shouldn't be the character you root for on a deeper level. The idea of rooting for him is almost silly to me. There should be a very disturbing, uncomfortable vibe to him.

In Long, Cold Dark, you see Frank reflect on who he now is, what could have been, and how he deals with it. There's a sympathy to it, but he can't abandon what he is now. He's self-admittedly too far gone.

War Zone missed the character's point. That's why it sucked. It showed nothing of any understanding of the character. It saw the violence in the MAX books and just went "YEA! VIOLENCE!" without acknowledging the story.

 

[kguillou]

But that's just it. Had they made a sequel to the 2004 film, what would have been but Frank in full on Punisher mode? You know his origin and that's what drives him. That and that only.

There's a certain dark depth to the Punisher. It's very subtle. Once again, go read Long, Cold Dark. That to me is the ultimate Punisher story. You really get inside Frank's head in that one. There's something identifiably human to him, but you don't want to be that close to it. The Punisher shouldn't be the character you root for on a deeper level. The idea of rooting for him is almost silly to me. There should be a very disturbing, uncomfortable vibe to him.

In Long, Cold Dark, you see Frank reflect on who he now is, what could have been, and how he deals with it. There's a sympathy to it, but he can't abandon what he is now. He's self-admittedly too far gone.

War Zone missed the character's point. That's why it sucked. It showed nothing of any understanding of the character. It saw the violence in the MAX books and just went "YEA! VIOLENCE!" without acknowledging the story.

I'll admit i havent read that story, i'll give it a look. I mean i truly believe the Punisher has the potential to be at truly fascinating character about tragedy and giving in to your darkest demons. I just feel like most of the time, the comics overshadow that with excessive violence and one-note characterizations. Especially Ennis. Maybe i just didnt have the stomach for it, but his stuff was way too over the top for me.

In any case, i still dont see why people hated the '04 Punisher film. Even if i didnt know this was a comic adaptation, it was a good film on its own.Its funny cause alot of mainstream critics say the film was too dark and morose and the fans say it wasn't dark enough. lol