Should this be an origin film?

Discussion in 'Captain Marvel' started by Mike Murdock, Feb 25, 2015.

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What to do with her origin?

  1. Yes, this movie should be an origin story

  2. This story should show her origin, but it should be a minor part of the story

  3. Her origin should be limited to the credits or a precredits sequence

  4. Her origin should be told in some other medium instead (TV, one-shot, or prior movie)

  5. Her origin should be ignored entirely. Who cares how she got her powers?

  6. I have no opinion but I want to vote in this poll anyway

  7. I wish they had done a Captain Mar-Vell movie first

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Mike Murdock Registered

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    This discussion has popped up off and on in other threads, but I think it needs its own thread.

    For a long time, the origin story was the staple of comicbook movies. Pretty much every first movie had to start with the hero's journey where they become the character you know and love. There was often good reason for it - it introduces the character to the audience in a way that lets them understand them. Also, some times the origin story is just really cool. However, lately, there's been a trend away from that. Thor had a hero's journey without showing how he became Thor simply due to the fact that he was always just Thor (no Don Blake secret identity). The Incredible Hulk reduced the origin to an opening credits sequence and just filled in the rest through dialogue (it helps that most people generally know what the deal with the Hulk is). Guardians of the Galaxy showed the team forming, but made each character fairly established as who they were in the beginning (there's no Peter Quill learning to be a action space hero).

    I think it's fair to say for some characters, people have completely soured on origin stories - people may be fine with a rebooted Spider-Man, but I don't think anyone really sees the need to focus on Peter Parker getting his powers for a third time. In addition, there is a report that Marvel is getting away from origin stories. Some are claiming that even Dr. Strange, who has one of the more interesting origin stories, won't get an origin story movie. Other characters, like Black Panther, are apparently being introduced prior to their solo movie and will likely have to be established (at least to a certain degree).

    With Captain Marvel, there are conflicting impulses. Her origin is not common knowledge. It's not like the Hulk or Spider-Man which the audience already knows. On the other hand, it's nowhere near as exciting a story as Spider-Man with Uncle Ben or Iron Man making his armor. Finally, her origin story is a story focused on an entirely different Captain Marvel - Captain Mar-Vell of the Kree and might be too involved to be anything other than an entire movie plot. Having an origin story in her own movie might take the focus away from Carol Danvers, take her away from space (where it seems they want to be her focus), and might not be that great of a story. On the other hand, a story is as strong as its writers and it's fair to say the audience doesn't know why they should care about her just yet.

    So what do you think? Should this movie be an origin story? Should it be a minor part of the film? Should it be taken care of in some other story previously?
     
  2. Endeavor Que bolá con el timbeque?

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    I think one of the last points you made is the key factor for me wanting this to be an origin piece, or at the very least have it be a significant part of the film: She is a relative unknown.
    Unlike with Thor, Hulk and even Black Panther to an extent, very few people know of Carol or her history. Most probably don't even realize she's that blonde woman that gave Rogue the powers for which she became so popular.
    I think the GA would benefit from an opportunity to participate in Carol's story from the beginning, as opposed to learning about her from quick flashback scenes or as part of somebody else's story (a prior movie). I have no doubt that the key themes of her comics origin can be adapted to a good cohesive story, without the need to degrade her importance by making her a damsel in distress or even a derivative character.
     
  3. CConn Fountainhead of culture.

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    It should be an origin film like Batman, Guardians of the Galaxy and X-Men were origin films.

    Because if we get the exact same plot of Superman: The Movie, Spider-Man, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Iron Man, and Batman Begins again, I'll put my head through a wall.
     
  4. InternetPeople Petty... and tiny

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    Being that Captain Marvel is nestled in between the Infinity War films, I get the feeling the Kree will be the threat to Earth in IW pt. 1 featuring Mar-Vell in some fashion. That begins Danver's origins without making a film about her origins. I'm not sure you can even do a true origin film here because of the imminent threat of Thanos.

    Black Panther and Spider Man are both showing up in the MCU before their solo movies. I imagine as the MCU gets bigger, more characters will debut in with other characters before receiving their own films/series. Luke Cage would be more evidence of this.
     
  5. Mike5575 I'm the Captain now!

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    Imagine she just shows up in IW2 with no explanation and Steve Rogers sees her flying around zapping bad guys with energy blasts, punching things really hard. Steve asks Tony Stark who she is. Tony shrugs his shoulders. "I don't know. She calls herself
    Ms/Captain Marvel. I can't remember which. I think she's half alien or something. Nobody knows anything about her or where she comes from. We should ask her to join the Avengers." Steve shrugs his shoulders. Sure, why not."
     
  6. Mike5575 I'm the Captain now!

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    I'm actually kind of sold on the idea of no more origin stories in movies. That way we can jump right in on the action with her first solo film! I do think they would have to give her origin story in Infinity War 1 or Guardians 2. I know, I know. James Gunn doesn't want anymore humans in GOTG2. I get it. But James Gunn doesn't run Marvel, Kevin Feige does. Besides, a teamup with the Guardians would be awesome. Have Carol beat the hell out of something, surprising the Guardians. Starlord is like "Well, I'm just glad she's on our side." Captain Marvel loves Star Wars, Peter Quill says Star Wars things. It would be awesome.

    I like the idea of the Kree being a big threat to Earth. Maybe SWORD could be introduced at this point, assuming Marvel has the rights. This could also be the event which eventually leads to the Inhumans to come out of hiding. After all, they were genetically programmed to hide and await for the pare turn of the Kree. Maybe Thanos coerces the Kree to attack Earth. After all, it was a Kree that betrayed him.
     
  7. flickchick85 Admin of Might

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    I've sort of gotten used to the idea of her origin occurring before her movie, so as long as we see it in some movie, I'm happy.
     
  8. Kahran Ramsus Super Moderator

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    I think it should. Her origin is rather complicated and it is so tied in with her relationships with Mar-vell and the Kree that I really think it needs to be seen.
     
  9. Mike5575 I'm the Captain now!

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    The comics has Carol getting her powers nine years after her origin story. Maybe her origin story is in some previous film, and she shows up in her own movie, and her powers manifest for the first time. This way, her origin story is kind of split between films. We also get to see Carol get used to her powers, but still have plenty of time of a superpowered Carol for the rest of her film.
     
  10. Mike Murdock Registered

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    I will say getting her powers so much later is fitting with her relatively passive origin story. It isn't her origin that makes her a hero, it's what she does with her powers.
     
  11. cph9fa Registered

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    I am a sucker for a good origin movie. It's often a character's most defining moment, and it would be a shame to not see it.

    To be fair... any origin story that takes the focus away from the main character whose origin it is, is a pretty poorly-written origin story. The only reason it happened that way in the comics is because of the beauty of retcons. The PM explosion was never originally intended to be an origin story, and Carol's character was not planned to become a superhero. With the benefit of hindsight, planning, and the clean slate presented by Earth-199999, writers can and should tweak the origin to be more personal to Carol, and give her a more active role. And noting the success that Marvel has had with knowing when and how to rewrite things from the comics that don't quite work, I have no doubt they'll find an absolutely brilliant way to do just that. If Marvel does decide to skip her origin, it wouldn't be for these reasons.

    For me, the question isn't should her origin be shown, but rather, how should it be reimagined. And, I suppose, how much of the film should be spent on it.

    And while I do think that Mar-Vell should have a significant role in that origin, he does not need to have superpowers, beyond the expected training & tech of a high-ranking Kree soldier. But, if desired, rewriting Carol's origin to remove Mar-Vell is child's play:
    [​IMG]
     
  12. flickchick85 Admin of Might

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    ^Haha, I love it how the Psyche-Magnetron basically looks like an air conditioning unit in that drawing.
     
  13. Mike5575 I'm the Captain now!

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    Ha! Minus the helmet, she looks like an a/c repairwoman in coveralls.
     
  14. Mike Murdock Registered

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    Regarding Captain Mar-Vell's powers, I don't think he should have any and it doesn't make sense that Carol's powers would be a duplicate of his. To me, the only natural ability he should have is strength, which should be comparable but slightly weaker than that of Ronan the Accuser. Aside from that, go with the original technological powers - unibeam and technologically powered flight (I forget what they called it). Frankly, even after he got powers from Zo (which seemed to be practically the same thing, except maybe some kind of illusion projecting power, only biological instead of technological), I never saw any kind of energy absorbing powers.

    Given all that, I think it makes far more sense that she has the strength of a Kree now, but any other powers are due to the Psyche-Magnetron, not Mar-Vell.
     
  15. Endeavor Que bolá con el timbeque?

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    I think she should be stronger than a Kree, or at the very least on par with Ronan (sans infinity stone). Call it hybrid vigor if you need to explain it. I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch for people to buy into it.
     
  16. Mike Murdock Registered

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    I saw no reason to think the other Kree are weaker than Ronan. He was my point of reference, which is pretty damn strong.
     
  17. Endeavor Que bolá con el timbeque?

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    Korath was much weaker than Ronan, even before he acquired the infinity stone. How they both fared against Drax shows this.
     
  18. Protar Registered

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    I definitely think they should go with an origin story for her. My impression is that she will be pivotal to Infinity War: in Part 1 the Avengers will be being crushed, then in P2 (after her solo film) she shows up and kicks Thanos' ass. So she can't be around prior to Part 1. That creates plot holes in general - she's this superman level hero, people would have heard of her before if she was already established.
     
  19. Mike Murdock Registered

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    Fair enough. Poor choice of words on my part. Let's say she has the strength of Captain Mar-Vell who, as a mighty Kree warrior, is among the best of his people. Happy? :p
     
  20. Endeavor Que bolá con el timbeque?

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    Hahah

    I'll be happy either way. I just think it would be cooler if she's something completely different after the transformation, not just a human version of a Kree. I understand the energy manipulation alone could be enough of a diference, but I'd like the strength to show as well.
     
  21. Mike Murdock Registered

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    Really, the only reason I hold onto anything Kree-related is the idea that she shares Kree heritage now, it's something that ties her to Captain Mar-Vell at a genetic level. I don't want that to go away. She isn't just a human with sci-fi powers, but something more.
     
  22. Endeavor Que bolá con el timbeque?

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    :up:

    Brings up the question if Mar-Vell will be included or focused on at all, or will it just be some random Kree?
     
  23. AndrewGilkison Registered

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    This is why I've said Mar-Vell should be an older Obi-Wan like mentor figure. It gives him a sense of weight and history and legacy (important if Carol is gonna take up his mantle) while not undermining the fact that Carol is the star of the movie. She is the main hero from the start so you don't want to undercut that by making her a love interest who gets kidnapped. That was fine for when Mar-Vell was the lead character in the Captain Marvel books and Carol was a supporting character, but this is different.
     
  24. cph9fa Registered

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    Mar-Vell did eventually gain the ability to absorb and project energy, but it was well after both the Psyche-Magnitron incident and his meeting with Zo.

    TBH, it rarely came up, except as an occasional plot device.

    At any rate, that's not where Carol got her energy absorbing powers from (at least not directly). As I understand it, those came from the Brood, who were fascinated by her half-Kree genetics and experimented on her, sometime after she had been depowered by Rogue and joined the X-Men.
     
  25. Kahran Ramsus Super Moderator

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    The Brood complicates things too much, and Marvel doesn't have the rights to them anyways. It is much simpler just to have her get those powers from Mar-vell, like in Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
     

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