Siegel & Shuster vs WB: Superman and Infinite Crisis

[TripXyDE]

You got it - its go with Singer's ego or go with Superman and save the franchise with a new director/vision/approach.

The Lex rumored here is how Singer should have done it from the start. To jump from Singer's campy over-the-top Lex to this corporate Lex would be, make no mistake, essentially a "re-boot" or "re-start" of Lex. An admission of failure. An attempt to "fix' what is not fixable IMO.

The kid, some of the cast, the FX team - they all need to be as radically altered as this "new" Lex would be if this rumor is true.

To show you how shaky the foundation of SR is let's think. Say they go with this new Lex. To get there from here (SR) a lot of time would have elapsed. So how are Superman/Lois/Jason/Richard introduced in a sequel taking place a few years after SR?

Surely, Heaven forbid, not Superman still pining and "spying" on Lois.

No, that situation will have to have been resolved off-screen. Either Lois is with Richard years later or with Superman. The transition to this new relationship which presumably Singer wanted to be key now becomes a flashback if that.

WB has a mess on its hands any way you look at it if they give Singer a go-ahead.

It is brought home by the Spiderman clips shown at the electronics convention a few weeks back. They blew away the audience and I am told make the SR visuals look like a college film project.

Koeppe's script so amazed the Sony suits they are trying to sign him like today to write Spiderman 4. How different from the reaction of the WB suits last May/June to the SR script.

Come on folks, we are seeing GREAT stuff with Spiderman 3 and potentially great stuff with FF 2. Don't you want that for Superman? In your heart of hearts do you really think Singer and his team is capable of anything near to what we will be getting in Spiderman 3?

That is the choice and rather than settling fans should be upset that Spiderman and FF are delivering so much more despite the fact Singer, up to that time, had the biggest budget in film history.

We all as Superman fans who have waited decades for this deserve so much more than Singer is capable of giving

EXACTLY!!!

SUPERMAN RETURNS
should have been the PERFECT set-up to FIX all the flaws of the Donner/Reeve movies. With Supes GONE for a long period, Lex couldv redeemed himself during such a time, he could've been able to acquire VAST amounts of money, earn the RESPECT of the community, let's say there was this BIG calamity that hit, Superman was not around, but Lex was the hero of the hour that was able to save everybody & redeem himself to the eyes of the community.

Let's face the obvious; Donner's & Singer's Lex is a plain hooligan. sure, he's a brilliant "criminal mastermind". but he's still a hooligan. Corporate Lex is the REAL Criminal Mastermind. it's an obvious mirror on reality (in which Singer claims SR has) that the most BRILLIANT criminal masterminds are the ones who are respected by the public, & because of this respect & power, they can MOVE things like pawns (from cops, to public officials, to even the military).

THEIR version of Lex contents himself with just staying in an underground lair, a yacht, and a few goons. How can he redeem himself in the next movie, when the world could easily find out who's responsible for that big dumb "bizarro island" catastrophe. if we civilians can access Google Earth, don't you think that some spy satellite would catch Luthor & his goons in that bizarro island like a sore thumb?

If Corporate Lex was given the circumstances, he would've been a step ahead---ALWAYS. one of the guys accessing the spy satellite would've secretly been in the payroll of Lexcorp. While Superman was being taken to the hospital (don't you think we shouldve taken a wounded alien, to a lab? they don't exactly have syringes that could penetrate hard-as-steel, alien skin in the hospital, you know) Lex would've already been sped off by his minions to the Bahamas, sipping wine with some politicians saying "I wonder who's responsible for THIS disaster?"

 

[TripXyDE]

ALL of that Lexlives is your opinion and a lot of it supposition based on unseen movies but there are a lot that feel just a few tweaks and the sequel can be X2 level good

THING IS, this is NOT just plain Singer-Bashing...
this is stating clear the fact that SR really was a FAILURE
i loved X-Men PART ONE
it didn't have enough action, as many complainers would put out, BUT IT WAS decent.
This is stating the fact that somebody powerful among the suits should just go ahead telling Singer:

"Dude, you're a GREAT director, but SUPERMAN is just NOT your THING. Remember how good Joel Schumacher WAS as a director? Well, now, he's tarnished as the DIRECTOR of "Batman Forever" & "Batman & Robin"... do YOU REALLY wanna be remembered as the director of the Gay Superman, the PEEPING Tom Superman, the Superman who had a son out of wedlock, the Superman movie with the DUMB Lex Luthor, A Lois Lane that EVERYBODY seems to agree should be replaced, the Superman movie which was so FREAKING boring...? you screwed up not on just one minor part of the movie, but it seems--ALL of it. & who did you please? fanboys who still have a hard-on for the Donner Superman nostalgia, chicks who get wet for Routh, & critics who don't know jack5hit of Superman? Dude---ARE YOU SURE that given a SEQUEL---CAN YOU PULL THIS OFF?

i don't think so

so, for the sake of your career, stay away from THIS franchise & redeem your GREAT image...get it back to the way people RESPECTED you when you made USUAL SUSPECTS"

 

[TripXyDE]

I'm always a bit taken back by some. I actually agree with EVERYTHING you said...except the bolded. It really isn't a MANY of us...it's a very vague numercial quantity.

Also, keep this in mind, watch Singer's interviews on X2. He humbly and frankly speaks about the things he felt could've been better in X1, and he went out of his way to correct them -- talking about them.

Yet, you have people like LexLives, that just leech onto what i think is artistic itnegrity (you don't get many 'drafts" of a movie) to realize what you could've done better and turn it into an admission of failure. I just dont' see it that way...

Look at Raimi, who really didn't "improve' anything he messed up with in SM1. I don't know, I just am really getting tired of lexLives...there's disliking this movie, and then ther'es just bashing.

LexLives represents the exact symbol of blind, near-trolling bashing of this film and it just is disgusting.

sure. the same way we should respect the opinions of those who liked Schumacher's Batman movies. sure, we RESPECT opinions, but every now & then, we should educate others to tell what's good & what's garbage.

 

[lexlives]

THING IS, this is NOT just plain Singer-Bashing...
this is stating clear the fact that SR really was a FAILURE
i loved X-Men PART ONE
it didn't have enough action, as many complainers would put out, BUT IT WAS decent.
This is stating the fact that somebody powerful among the suits should just go ahead telling Singer:

"Dude, you're a GREAT director, but SUPERMAN is just NOT your THING. Remember how good Joel Schumacher WAS as a director? Well, now, he's tarnished as the DIRECTOR of "Batman Forever" & "Batman & Robin"... do YOU REALLY wanna be remembered as the director of the Gay Superman, the PEEPING Tom Superman, the Superman who had a son out of wedlock, the Superman movie with the DUMB Lex Luthor, A Lois Lane that EVERYBODY seems to agree should be replaced, the Superman movie which was so FREAKING boring...? you screwed up not on just one minor part of the movie, but it seems--ALL of it. & who did you please? fanboys who still have a hard-on for the Donner Superman nostalgia, chicks who get wet for Routh, & critics who don't know jack5hit of Superman? Dude---ARE YOU SURE that given a SEQUEL---CAN YOU PULL THIS OFF?

i don't think so

so, for the sake of your career, stay away from THIS franchise & redeem your GREAT image...get it back to the way people RESPECTED you when you made USUAL SUSPECTS"

Indeed, Singer is a good director but not the right director for Superman IMO. One does not preclude the other.

I do wonder if Singer wonders this too because if a Singer sequel does not come close to matching X-Men 2 in terms of BO jump his sequel will be seen as a failure and indeed his career will be seriously tarnished.

The Schumacker analogy is perfect.

X2 did 41% or so better than X1 - that means a Singer sequel would have to do 282 million to match his earlier X-Men success.

With the much smaller budget and the general negativity many have towards SR I think it is all but impossible for SR 2 to do anywhere near 282 million. I doubt it will be able to muster much more than 210 - 215 million.

Singer has to be thinking too does he want 2 years of intense scrutiny - the internet movie sites and boards will be waiting for any slip and will pounce on it.

An easy out would be for Singer and WB to part company on Superman because of creative differences with WB putting the franchise on indefinite hold.

Win for both WB and Singer. And fans too I'd add.

 

[The Punisher]

Edit. NM.

 

[X Knight]

and, then, Singer can go back to the X-men movies and save his franchise.....

 

[lexlives]

EXACTLY!!!

SUPERMAN RETURNS
should have been the PERFECT set-up to FIX all the flaws of the Donner/Reeve movies. With Supes GONE for a long period, Lex couldv redeemed himself during such a time, he could've been able to acquire VAST amounts of money, earn the RESPECT of the community, let's say there was this BIG calamity that hit, Superman was not around, but Lex was the hero of the hour that was able to save everybody & redeem himself to the eyes of the community.

Let's face the obvious; Donner's & Singer's Lex is a plain hooligan. sure, he's a brilliant "criminal mastermind". but he's still a hooligan. Corporate Lex is the REAL Criminal Mastermind. it's an obvious mirror on reality (in which Singer claims SR has) that the most BRILLIANT criminal masterminds are the ones who are respected by the public, & because of this respect & power, they can MOVE things like pawns (from cops, to public officials, to even the military).

THEIR version of Lex contents himself with just staying in an underground lair, a yacht, and a few goons. How can he redeem himself in the next movie, when the world could easily find out who's responsible for that big dumb "bizarro island" catastrophe. if we civilians can access Google Earth, don't you think that some spy satellite would catch Luthor & his goons in that bizarro island like a sore thumb?

If Corporate Lex was given the circumstances, he would've been a step ahead---ALWAYS. one of the guys accessing the spy satellite would've secretly been in the payroll of Lexcorp. While Superman was being taken to the hospital (don't you think we shouldve taken a wounded alien, to a lab? they don't exactly have syringes that could penetrate hard-as-steel, alien skin in the hospital, you know) Lex would've already been sped off by his minions to the Bahamas, sipping wine with some politicians saying "I wonder who's responsible for THIS disaster?"

Yeah, they should have taken Superman to Star Labs. A wonderful chance to showcase a great part of the mythology. So many missed opportunities.

Its one of the reasons Jason was such a wrong way to go. Screentime that could have been used to focus on Star Labs, Inspector Henderson, Emil - on and on - is not available now. Jason has to be a large part of the story. The stuff as a fan I would have loved to have seen simply won't get the airtime.

 

[Showtime]

I didn't know you had a twin brother Lex L.?

 

[Showtime]

sure. the same way we should respect the opinions of those who liked Schumacher's Batman movies. sure, we RESPECT opinions, but every now & then, we should educate others to tell what's good & what's garbage.

I didn't realize you could educate others on what their opinions should be...tell me more?

 

[lexlives]

I didn't know you had a twin brother Lex L.?

Great minds think alike!

Seriously you have admitted SR split the fanbase about down the middle so indeed I have lots of brothers and sisters out there. We are everywhere don't you know. Your best friend may even be one of us!

 

[Showtime]

Great minds think alike!

Seriously you have admitted SR split the fanbase about down the middle so indeed I have lots of brothers and sisters out there. We are everywhere don't you know. Your best friend may even be one of us!

For every one of you there is one of them. Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes.

 

[lexlives]

sure. the same way we should respect the opinions of those who liked Schumacher's Batman movies. sure, we RESPECT opinions, but every now & then, we should educate others to tell what's good & what's garbage.

TripXyDE - check out the blog myself and a few others have set up. We are getting a good response.

http://home.earthlink.net/~dvrandy/

 

[lexlives]

For every one of you there is one of them. Don't shoot until you see the whites of their eyes.

This is one thing that has to bother Singer. He may not read the boards - so he says - but he knows I bet the split his film caused.

Someone above mentioned him returning to X-Men to fix it. I gotta say that option must look in ways like a greener pasture to Singer. The larger budget alone which it will certainly get - larger than X3's 210 million - has got to be tempting and the fact Singer would face a lot less grief and might be seen as a saviour by some of the X-Men franchise.

No ones knows what he is really thinking but it would not surprise me in the end if he ends up on X-Men 4 instead of another Superman film.

 

[Showtime]

Doubt it, he went in with a two - three movie pitch, and WB is allowing him the sequel. He's going to go forward with a continuation of his story.

 

[lexlives]

Doubt it, he went in with a two - three movie pitch, and WB is allowing him the sequel. He's going to go forward with a continuation of his story.

He went in with a 3 film pitch (not 2 - 3) though now even he probably realizes a 3rd film may be problematic.

I noticed Routh's slip at the DVD launch party where he said he always weanted to do 2 Superman films. Freudian slip? I think they all know this thing is hanging.

Not saying he will bolt for sure just that the grass on that side has to look greener right now and the outcome far more assured.

 

[Showtime]

He went in with a 3 film pitch (not 2 - 3) though now even he probably realizes a 3rd film may be problematic.

I noticed Routh's slip at the DVD launch party where he said he always weanted to do 2 Superman films. Freudian slip? I think they all know this thing is hanging.

Not saying he will bolt for sure just that the grass on that side has to look greener right now and the outcome far more assured.

I am a realist I don't take small harmless comments and turn them into speculation or fact. Whether it was two or three, he has a complete story, a franchise if you will. All legitimate reports are pointing to Singer going forward with the sequel, no amount of so called "freudian slips" or "I heard Singer say this at a party" changes that.

 

[bosef982]

sure. the same way we should respect the opinions of those who liked Schumacher's Batman movies. sure, we RESPECT opinions, but every now & then, we should educate others to tell what's good & what's garbage.

Educate me? My dear boy, you won't be educating me? That's like a neandrathal trying to teach a homosapien how to write.

Educate others..using what? Your narrow interpretation of superman? Your endless rants? Open a text book and read...they actually make logical sense. Give me an educated analyzation of why Superman Returns was a failure, taking into account its overwhelming positive criticla success, doing a tad more than Batman Begins did internationally (and Begins is considered a success), and with WB already optioning for a sequel by Singer? Tell me, using those PROVEN FACTS how SR failed?

Or is that you're just a bitter betsy who is mad that the verison of Supeman that happened to succeeded was a version that you didn't like yourself and thus you now have to graft your opinions onto EVERYONE?

 

[bosef982]

I am a realist I don't take small harmless comments and turn them into speculation or fact. Whether it was two or three, he has a complete story, a franchise if you will. All legitimate reports are pointing to Singer going forward with the sequel, no amount of so called "freudian slips" or "I heard Singer say this at a party" changes that.

...or *****ing, or whining, or idiotic, lame website blog set up to satisfy the ego of its creator rather than effectuate any real change?

And Lex, could you post the links to the full articles that are qouted on your website by Dark Horizons and Entertainment Weekly?

 

[Morg]

TripXyDE, let's not go down that slippy slope please.

 

[gdw]

I LOVE the Lex taking political/more public actions and trying to make the public turn against Superman.

Alway's have.

 

[lexlives]

I LOVE the Lex taking political/more public actions and trying to make the public turn against Superman.

Alway's have.

No, we are encouragoig those who want a re-start to write. The problem was WB listened seemingly too much to BT as a voice of the fans and not enough to other sites where opinions were evenly split.

If nothing else writing lets fans vent steam and do something positive in addition to just complaining at boards.

BTW, taking public action is as American as apple pie. Its all voluntary. No one is being forced to write. People are doing so cause they care for the franchise.

 

[GreenKToo]

meh, I didnt read it, and won't be either. I think that even after they start filming the sequel, you'll still be claiming that singers not coming back.
I never was a big singer fan, but your constant complaining about him is turning me into one.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

No one is being forced to write. People are doing so cause they care for the franchise.

Yup. All three of ya.

 

[lexlives]

Yup. All three of ya.

Actually, the reponse has been quite good but believe what you want.

 

[AssMan]

A good response or not the WB will not listen & even if they did I highly doubt they would take someone seriously that does nothing but spam on a message board thinking hes right & everyone else is wrong.