Simon Kinberg vs David Goyer- who's the bigger hack?

Discussion in 'Misc. Comics Films' started by MasterBoss, Jun 6, 2019.

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Who's the bigger hack?

  1. Simon Kinberg

    32 vote(s)
    94.1%
  2. David Goyer

    2 vote(s)
    5.9%
  1. henzINNIT

    henzINNIT Registered

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    There's certainly different degrees of bad but I don't think crappy films deserve that much nuance. A hack can be someone who fumbles a crazy idea or over-reach. I'd argue the case against M. Night and Snyder being hacks (which I'd agree with) is solely because they've made films that are pretty good.
     
  2. I Am The Knight

    I Am The Knight Tonight's a good night.

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    Wonder how much influence Snyder had on his screenplay.
     
  3. LibidoLoca

    LibidoLoca Sensually Delicious

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    The subsequent interviews after the film showed Terrio knew very little about them. I think it was the interview where he compared the film to a Greek tragedy.
     
  4. 2kt09

    2kt09 Snyder Rent-Free

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    Wait, Goyer's original template was a greek tragedy?
     
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  5. LibidoLoca

    LibidoLoca Sensually Delicious

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    I think it was Terrio's template. But I don't know anymore cause Goyer still got a writing credit for the film. :shrug:
     
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  6. 2kt09

    2kt09 Snyder Rent-Free

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    That means stuff like story, characters, plot points, dialogue stuck around for him to get 50% of Terrio's rewrite.
     
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  7. Batmannerism

    Batmannerism Super-unknown

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    The real tragedy was seeing 2 cultural icons treated so badly. Even Euripides would have cried about that.
     
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  8. The Endless

    The Endless WE are Groot

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    I think Snyder does understand Superman. Thing is... he thinks he's lame and corny. So he tried to "grow him up" (his words).

    That makes it worse for me. I can understand someone not quite getting a character, or misinterpreting a character. But Snyder was always quite vocal with his disrespect of Superman. He always made it clear that he thought Superman was lame and corny and childish.

    His idea of "growing him up" was to make him a jaded, cynic of a man who treats his powers and responsibilities as a burden... rather than something to be proud of and happy about.

    At the end of the day I blame the WB execs more than Snyder. He didnt hide anything or try to fool anyone. He just simply wasnt right for Superman. He would've been better for The Authority or Plutonian or Hyperion.
     
  9. MovieSlave

    MovieSlave Registered

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    Yup! Basically a studio "yes man" or also someone who rips off other people's ideas and claims them as their own.

    Soooo many people throw out the word "hack" just because they simply don't like someone's films. It has nothing to do with the quality of the films they make. That is in fact incorrect.
     
  10. henzINNIT

    henzINNIT Registered

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    hack2
    /hak/

    [​IMG]Learn to pronounce

    noun
    noun: hack; plural noun: hacks
    1.
    a writer or journalist producing dull, unoriginal work.
    "Sunday newspaper hacks earn their livings on such gullibilities"

    Being a hack has everything to do with the quality of their work. The word itself is referring to "hack" in terms of chopping things ie doing a rough job.
     
    #60 henzINNIT, Jun 29, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
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  11. MovieSlave

    MovieSlave Registered

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    I don't agree with that at all. If someone makes bad films or unoriginal films they are simply a bad or unoriginal filmmaker. Indon't consider that a hack.
     
  12. Batmannerism

    Batmannerism Super-unknown

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    Respect ! :applaud When advancing a submission get some authority for it. What does the Oxford online dictionary say - as that's a pretty respected source.
     
  13. The Endless

    The Endless WE are Groot

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    That definition suggests the poor quality is intended though. Theres no real passion or effort. They're phoning it in.

    If someone has all the best intentions... but is just not very good; I wouldnt call them a hack.
     
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  14. Flint Marko

    Flint Marko Bring me Thanos

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    Quality is completely subjective so that's not helpful when describing a "hack". The word "unoriginal" in that definition is key.

    Snyder's movies aren't good but he's no hack. He clearly puts in tremendous effort and has unique artistic sensibilities that set his work apart. Subjective opinions about the finished product aside, "hacks" don't put in that kind of effort and create art that different and provocative.

    Hack's put in middle of the road effort to create, at best, middle of the road products. Not saying their intentions aren't good, but intention doesn't matter when the talent isn't there.
     
    #64 Flint Marko, Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
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  15. henzINNIT

    henzINNIT Registered

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    Oxford Dictionary:

    1. A writer or journalist producing dull, unoriginal work.
    1.1 A person who does dull routine work.

    I'd argue that quality isn't completely subjective in film, but that's a rabbit hole I don't want to go down.

    I'm not sure I agree a hack can be labelled as such because of a lack of effort. How is effort any easier to identify than quality? And if the talent isn't there as you suggest, surely any amount of effort would be insufficient? Would a routinely terrible film-maker be a hack if you believed they were trying really hard? By your logic, what would separate a Snyder from a Kinberg, if anything?

    It seems like Snyder escapes the label because he's done something of quality, subjectively probably.
     
    #65 henzINNIT, Jul 1, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  16. Flint Marko

    Flint Marko Bring me Thanos

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    When I say effort I mean effort to do something that feels unique and original. Snyder has a signature style because he makes an effort in that respect. He has his own artistic sensibilities and leans into them.

    Guys like Brett Ratner and Kinberg and Singer, in my eyes, don’t do that. Their movies feel like anyone could make them.
     
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  17. Sithborg

    Sithborg Oooh, plot twist!

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    I will say Kinberg seemed to have a better eye for shots than Singer. And he seems to have a good idea for action. The battle in New York one of the best team fights in the series.
     
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  18. henzINNIT

    henzINNIT Registered

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    Subjectivity proven I guess cause I thought the NY fight was really bad. It felt awfully paced with poor geography and action beats. Doesn't help that it was supposed to be this epic race... across the street.

    Snyder certainly is the most stylized of the group. I wouldn't call that a total plus though, as outside of the spectacle he might be the worst of the above. If a scene requires 2 people talking to each-other, and for me to care, I'd take Singer out of the four.
     
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  19. Frankeh

    Frankeh Registered

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    The team fights were one of the achilles heel of that franchise. They needed to watch The Incredibles and The Avengers and take notes, but it's too late now.
     
  20. Blade Hoarder

    Blade Hoarder Registered

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    That's not saying much. Singer probably had two memorable shots in his entire X-men career.

    As for action, he forgot the most fundamental part of it. You're supposed to care about the characters doing the action.
     
  21. henzINNIT

    henzINNIT Registered

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    Even the most hardened Marvel Studios skeptic must be anticipating what they're going to do with the action. So, so much potential. Disney just doubled their roster, and our favourite mutants arguably have a more interesting mix of powers than the Avengers.
     
  22. Blade Hoarder

    Blade Hoarder Registered

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    It's telling that Kinberg's best shot is lifted straight from Interstellar, I laughed when I saw that.
     
  23. Sithborg

    Sithborg Oooh, plot twist!

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    The only real question is which faceless goon type they will face.
     
  24. henzINNIT

    henzINNIT Registered

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    Well luckily they also absorbed a great selection of villainous characters as well. Pitting hero teams versus villain teams would be fairly fresh ground for the MCU and there's great potential with that too.
     
  25. The Endless

    The Endless WE are Groot

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    I know all signs point to a more cosmic MCU in the future... but I'd love to see a Dark Reign adaptation of sorts. With Osborne's T-Bolts etc.

    Probably missed the boat with that one though.
     
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