Singers Vision Of Xmen 3?

Discussion in 'X-Men 1, 2 & 3' started by boywonder13, Dec 9, 2005.

  1. RedIsNotBlue Agree to disagree

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    Your joking right?

    Yeah but I am glad Singer left. It was time for a change. He never gave some characters the chance to shine.
     
  2. stretcho harrumph

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    I can't say I'm thrilled he left, but it certainly opens up the possibility of fresh and exciting ideas. Did you like the first two movies. If so, why are happy Singer left?
     
  3. boywonder13 Registered

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    It's hard to when you have a huge cast list.

    You think Ratner will achive that with an even bigger cast.

    I think not...!
     
  4. RedIsNotBlue Agree to disagree

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    Singer could have done it but for some reason he decided to make Wolverine movies co-starring the X-Men.
     
  5. Sean Madrox I just keep multipying...

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    I'm pretty sure which ever director was to take the job everyone would find flaws so this really isn't getting us anywhere. Just bashing the two directors that have/are directing the X-Men films.

    I also agree with Lightning that Sigourney Weaver would been a great choice for Emma Frost, also the addition of Gambit.

    Do you think that Sigourney and Mardsen would have had good chemistry on the film, if they went with a storyline between the two?
     
  6. BMM Registered

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    I didn't know Singer wanted to add Dazzler or Psylocke . . . I think Storm's taking a back seat in the supposed treatment was simply due to the possibility of Halle Berry not returning, as was rumored at the end of X2 . . . which would have sucked . . . because Storm is necessary in an X-film (especially in more than a cameo appearance) . . . but I think had Halle Berry been locked for Singer's X3/X4, Storm would have been included beyond that of a cameo role (although most likely not given the increased status she appears to maintain in the current version of X3) . . . but you never know.

    I also think Weaver would have brought much to the role of Emma Frost.
     
  7. boywonder13 Registered

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    Sigourney Weaver is old but sexy. She is 55/56 and Marden is 32/33.
    Might have been "interesting"
     
  8. RedIsNotBlue Agree to disagree

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    Emma Frost/Sigourney Weaver concept art

    [​IMG]
     
  9. berzerko89 Registered

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    probably because, the script that singer was trying to create is quite complicating and has lots of important stories that needs more time and can not be fit in one movie with the other major impt plots. Phoenix StoryLine can go solo, so can apocalypse's and the others. just a thought.
     
  10. bosef982 Registered

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    LMAO!

    Yes, wasn't it the under-developed, totally had nothing to do in the movies, Storm who managed to stop the machine from killing every human on the planet?
     
  11. skruloos Registered

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    Yes. It shows he understands movies and how to adapt a work for the general audience without being a slave to the comics.
     
  12. bosef982 Registered

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    Ratner's not giving her a bigger role. The studio is. Storm said she would only come back when and if she got more screentime. Kingberg and Penn designed the script with this concept in mind. Storm has a larger role b/c Halle Berry threatened not to come back if she didn't get a larger role. It has nothing to do with Ratner respecting the character or whatever the case -- it's studio politics.
     
  13. skruloos Registered

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    Unfortunately, Wolverine has one of the more intriguing stories in the mythos that doesn't rely on a lot of history. The general audience loves the rough guy with the heart of gold. The fact that he's mysterious to boot is just gold waiting to happen. Is it any coincidence that he also happens to be one of the few X-Men who can actually carry his own solo title?
     
  14. CapBeerCino Registered

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    So now you have a Ratner film focus on him instead. (Yeah, yeah more Storm I know - how would you feel if it was her who's romured to be vaporized?)
    I'd rather see Bryan's vision if it meant the two of them (Storm and Cyclops) taking the back seat but working as a team. (kinda like X-1).
     
  15. boywonder13 Registered

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    All of this is speculation and rumor. No one has read the treatment and said what is actually in it.

    Ratner's film is cluttered more 'cause they are making it he last X-Men film (with the mani cast, not spin off).

    Singer wanted to 3 and than 4 making it a much better and crafted story.
     
  16. bosef982 Registered

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    Very true. Singer is -- and I am bias but I can support this -- the generator of the modern comic book movie. Spider-Man's development awaited the green light contigent upon X-Men's performance.

    If you remove the fanboy variable, the immense satisfaction that moviegoers have with these movies is apparent. They are both critically (more so X2) and publicly well-recieved.

    Could Singer have done things differently? Yes, of course. But he had budget constraints. Look what WB's doing, they're not lassoing him with money, they're letting him some large free range. This to me says alot -- and I feel X-fans will be gnashing their teeth once they see SR and realize what Singer could have done had he had the support of Fox.

    I hate that people act like X3 is so radically different from Singer's movies. It's not. Storm's larger role is due to Halle Berry *****ing, not Ratner's faithfulness. Beast being it -- nothing different. Jean Grey's awakening -- nothing different. Scott possibly dying -- different, but is that a good thing? Singer was going to put him in a larger role.

    It's like the X-Movies themselves became horrible b/c a fanboy's particular favorite wasn't treated exactly how they're comic-booked bias opinion wanted it too. There's no cinematic integrity grafted into their judgements that the X-Movies suck -- just that, "It's not how I would have done it, so it must suck!" This takes an enormous amount of ego -- and an ego I don't think is realized -- to say something like this and to whole the quality of a film to purely your own standards.

    I doubt Ratner would get up and say, "Singer's X-Movie's suck because they weren't done the way I would have done them." Such a statement is a logical fallacy. You may say, "Singer's X-Movie's suck because Storm had to take a back seat" -- but already in that statement is implied a preference for Storm and a judgement made on how you would have done it -- which has no relevance to whether or not the movie is good or bad.

    Everyone turns their eyes when another character's role is shafted -- what about all Wolverine fans -- yet cry forever when theirs are. Then, you attempt to employ a sort of categorical -- a standard -- from your preference and this is where we find ourselves in that no one can be satisifed. Everyone's too busy *****ing and moaning and pawning of their opinions as cinematic fact that they lose sight of what makes a good movie: plot, character, spectacle, drama, dialogue, performance, music, etc.

    It's really getting pathetic, as I see this "pawning of opinion" occuring more frequently now. Fans refuse to even look at the basic principals of cinema and see why some things cannot be done. I for one, am very concerned by how many characters we have in X3 -- this could hurt it severely. Fans may not notice, becuase we have a huge amount of personal knowledge to fall back on. But non-fans won't. And if non-fans are lost, we all know the movie is lost as well.

    I am known as the raving Singerite. Perhaps this is true, but if I were to outline to you what I would have done with the X-Men, it would not resemble Singer's X-Films in many respects. Yet, however, I love the X-Men films -- how is this so? It's due to the fact that just because it's not done with my favorite characters or the way I would do it, doesn't mean it's not a good piece of cinema.

    Fans need to get some perspective.
     
  17. Tony Stark Armored Avenger!

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    Ratner had nothing to do with the changes in the script. Ratner didn't write the script, he was hired on after the script was complete. So this whole argument is pointless.

    Singer did a good job with the dramatic sequences, but he had no sense of action. The only good action scene in either of the X-men films was the invasion of the mansion.
     
  18. Jan Irisi Registered

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    No, the script was still being written even aftrer shooting began.
     
  19. bosef982 Registered

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    Funny thing was, I thought that was the coolest thing about X-Men. They didn't rely on action.

    Batman, Superman, and Spider-Man (although maybe Spider-man) can't rely on their dramatic premise alone. X-Men is the film that has come closest to that - to me that is a huge credit to comics as a legitimate medium of dramatic expression and to the talents of those on board who carried the excitement and interest through mere drama alone.

    However, if to look at at action, we can see there was more than just the mansion sequence. The Tornado scene was fairly well done and cool -- and the Lady Deathstrike/Logan fight is awesome.

    That's the percuilar thing about the X-men film, little action when compared to other comic book movies, yet still enrapturing and engaging to fans and non-fans alike. To me, that says alot.
     
  20. RedIsNotBlue Agree to disagree

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    I never said Wolverine isn't a great character. But these are X-MEN movies. Singer had a personal connection with him which is why he got a big chunk of the screentime and development. And this caused the shafting of others.
     
  21. The Storm Registered

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    Great post Bosef!

    About the first post, I heard something along them lines....I'm sure somewhere I read or heard about Jessica Simpson auditioning for Dazzler.
     
  22. Lightning Strykez! Former Mod On Pension Pay

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    That's incorrect.

    FOX was more than prepared for Halle to not return; that's why they instructed Zak and Simon to prepare script versions with and without the character.

    Bryan was NOT going to develop Storm any further. Halle knew that. They had differences regarding it. And that's when the threats started to come.

    Halle is well aware of the importance of Storm to the mythos. She was also likely sick of hearing the whining about her portrayal. She tried using her status to get better writing for the character. Bryan could've cared less, and he showed it by counter-proposing this "cameo/no appearance" concept to drive her away. With all the egos flared, understandably Halle said "forget it." (Surprise! :rolleyes: )

    After faltering with Catwoman, Halle changed her mind, humbly stating that she would return even if it was for a smaller role. Unexpectantly, Singer quit for Superman Returns. Matthew was hired and he began the revamp on the character. With Singer out of the picture, and the proposal for Storm to have a larger role, naturally Halle's interest was peaked even further.

    Suddenly Matthew left and then Brett arrived. Brett is continuing with the characterization, and as we can see from the trailer, she's got a more prominent role--as Storm should have. She, along with Cykes, Xavier, Jean and Wolverine are the most popular X-Men of all time. Bryan didn't "get it".

    Things just happened to work out with all of this. Studio politics played a part to an extent, but Halle wanted to come back.
     
  23. RedIsNotBlue Agree to disagree

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    :up:
     
  24. bosef982 Registered

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    True, but Storm's confirmed return and expanded role were already completed -- BEFORE Ratner signed on.
     
  25. bosef982 Registered

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    I'm not discreding Halle wanting or not wanting to come back. I'm countering your claim that Ratner is the reason that Storm has a larger role. It's not. The AICN script -- b/f Ratner's hire -- showed us that Storm already had a larger role. That's your argument I was taking issue with -- you were falsely attributing credit to Ratner for Storm's expanded role when it predated his hire. Sure, he continued to ride with it, but did he have a choice? Such a change would be unneccessary.

    Singer "didn't get it"? Come on, Lightining...please. Singer got what was neccessary to make a damn good X-film. He got the philosophy, the character interactions, the drama and the spectacle of it all.

    BTW, Storm and Cyclops are not key to the mythos of X-Men. Both members have at times been absent from the comics due to one reason or another -- if anything, in modern times, Logan is the key member and most popular member in the X-Men books. But, i'm not going down that road.

    Also, it is common knowledge that Bryan Singer and Halle Berry did not get along. So, who's at fault here? Could the reduction in Storm's role just be a fallout between them? Perhaps, and perhaps that is wrong on Singer's behalf. Or perhaps - as is rumored - he didn't agree with Halle's acting skills and decided to sideline her otherwise. Could it be that Singer just didn't like the character of storm and found more interesting stories in Magneto, Xavier, Logan, Jean, and (if X3 was to come) Cyclops?

    Everyone needs to stop attributing a difference in taste and preference as a defecit in not knowing source material, directorial skill, or cinematic prowess!
     

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