Something stupid about "The Abyss"

[Timstuff]

Well, the Director's Cut, at least. It's been a long time since I saw the theatrical one, so I can't remember if it was the same or not. But anyway, here's the movie's geo-political subplot is in a nutshell... the U.S. and U.S.S.R. were on the verge of having a nuclear war in some capacity. This apparently got the "water fairies" really pissed off, so they were going to destroy the human race using their ability to control water to create massive tsunamis around the world. The main guy is able to talk the fairies out of making us go extinct with a plea of "we're not all that bad" and such, and they agree not to kill us all but they also warn us that we must give up our "childish things" (i.e. nukes).

It only tonight hit me what the movie's real moral is, though. The moral of the story is not that WMDs and genocide are bad, because the water fairies possess the WMD of artificial tsunamis, which, if the threat of the film is to be believed, is more powerful than any WMD we possess, and they were also about to commit genocide against the human race. So what the movie's real moral is, is that WMDs are bad if they are not environmentally friendly. It's OK to use WMDs and slaughter people by the billions to make a statement, but only if it doesn't leave behind any kind of pollution, such as radiation.

Then again, this movie was written by the same guy who used $400 million dollars worth of technology to tell a story about why technology and capitalism are bad, which made 2 billion dollars off of the box office and another billion off of the merchandise and multiple DVD releases.

 

[Eggyman]

LOL.

That's an interesting perspective.

 

[lime]

Am I the guy who has to say this? This are just movies! Entertainment.

He can tell whatever he want, however he wants. That's cinema.

 

[Eggyman]

Am I the guy who has to say this? This are just movies! Entertainment.

He can tell whatever he want, however he wants. That's cinema.

But are we not on a forum to discuss film? Isn't each member given the ability to make a thread or a post with his/her opinion/idea at the forefront?

Shall we close the forum, board up the windows, and on the splintered wooden beams write, 'Go Away: This are just movies!'?

 

[Superfreak]

actually, you came close, but didn't quite get the last bit. The moral of the story is M.A.D., mutually assured destruction.

the theatrical version played much less upon the geopolitical theme, infact, it was barely mentioned. Most of the geopolitical stuff came from the paranioa of the navy seals. From the theatrical version, you just assumed that the water fairies were upset that crazy Micheal Beihn dropped a nuke on their palace... not that global nuclear war was about to start.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Avatar doesn't attack capitalism, it attacks imperialism. There's a difference.

and the aliens in the abyss don't threaten to kill humans simply because of nukes but because of our volitile nature.

It's exactly the same premise as The Day the Earth Stood Still which is considered a classic but you probably won't criticize that movie because James "treehugger" Cameron didn't direct it.

 

[Timstuff]

and the aliens in the abyss don't threaten to kill humans simply because of nukes but because of our volitile nature.

But doesn't that in turn make the fairies themselves volatile in nature? There are lots of people we could call volatile in nature, but that doesn't give us the right to drop the bomb on them.

It's exactly the same premise as The Day the Earth Stood Still which is considered a classic but you probably won't criticize that movie because James "treehugger" Cameron didn't direct it.

The aliens in The Day the Earth Stood Still saw earth as a threat, because our warfare was about to expand to space, meaning that the aliens would soon find themselves caught in the crossfire. It's not like the lame Keanu Reeves remake where the aliens simply showed up and told us "you don't deserve your planet because you aren't taking care of it, so we, the deserving master race, are going to take it from you by force."

 

[Passdom]

But doesn't that in turn make the fairies themselves volatile in nature? There are lots of people we could call volatile in nature, but that doesn't give us the right to drop the bomb on them.

The aliens in The Abyss are by design higher beings than humanity. I don't think you are meant to be able to pass judgement on them as you can't relate to how exactly they think.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

But doesn't that in turn make the fairies themselves volatile in nature? There are lots of people we could call volatile in nature, but that doesn't give us the right to drop the bomb on them.

It's like destroying a virus.

If something simply spreads destruction its elimination benefits everyone.

You're not destroying it out of greed, paranoia or spite, the way humans destroy.

 

[WildcatNC]

The "Water fairies" are personifications of the earth itself IMO, acting as nature spirits. They see it as an act of self defense, much like chemotherapy kills cancer.

The "earth friendly" WMD is not the point. Its saying that we, as a species, are not "evolved" and advanced enough to wield such power responsibly (like the water fairies are). There is much potential in us though if we could only reach it.

I think your looking to hard for the pinko-commie influence of the hippies and lefties in old movies. Its a common theme in movies and literature. Always has been.

 

[Haff]

Well, the Director's Cut, at least. It's been a long time since I saw the theatrical one, so I can't remember if it was the same or not. But anyway, here's the movie's geo-political subplot is in a nutshell... the U.S. and U.S.S.R. were on the verge of having a nuclear war in some capacity. This apparently got the "water fairies" really pissed off, so they were going to destroy the human race using their ability to control water to create massive tsunamis around the world. The main guy is able to talk the fairies out of making us go extinct with a plea of "we're not all that bad" and such, and they agree not to kill us all but they also warn us that we must give up our "childish things" (i.e. nukes).

It only tonight hit me what the movie's real moral is, though. The moral of the story is not that WMDs and genocide are bad, because the water fairies possess the WMD of artificial tsunamis, which, if the threat of the film is to be believed, is more powerful than any WMD we possess, and they were also about to commit genocide against the human race. So what the movie's real moral is, is that WMDs are bad if they are not environmentally friendly. It's OK to use WMDs and slaughter people by the billions to make a statement, but only if it doesn't leave behind any kind of pollution, such as radiation.

Then again, this movie was written by the same guy who used $400 million dollars worth of technology to tell a story about why technology and capitalism are bad, which made 2 billion dollars off of the box office and another billion off of the merchandise and multiple DVD releases.

Yeah I noticed this part too when I watched the directors cut. It's not very clear on what the message is, as both sides has a way of killing each other without an adequate cause. The whole ending scene in the directors cut bothered me because of this reason. IMO The theatrical ending just cut out all this nonsense and made it simpler.

 

[Kent]

I gotta say, the theatrical cut is far superior.

Though I'm kind of curious as to if this is truly a director's cut, or if it's just an extended cut that they chose to call a "director's cut" for no good reason, as was the case with the Terminator 2 "director's cut".

 

[Passdom]

It is a directors cut. The theatrical cut is the way it is because they did not have the money to finish the scenes.

Cameron got the money to finish the Abyss a few years after it came out.

The theatrical cut doesn't even exist in my mind. Its worthless when the DC is available to watch. Itd be like watching the theatrical cut of Watchmen over the DC.

 

[:eek:]

From Wikipedia:

Special Edition
The special edition includes more of the conflict between the United States and Soviet forces over the crash of the Montana, each side initially blaming the other for it. When Bud arrives on the NTI ship, he is shown the images of humanity's destructive behavior on a view screen. The NTIs create enormous megatsunami-level waves that threaten every coastline, but then stall them moments before they would come crashing down. After showing Bud his messages of self-sacrifice and caring and believing humanity to be capable of the same, the NTIs cause the standing waves to dissipate harmlessly, after which they start to bring their ship to the surface.
Despite the fact that James Cameron had final cut on the original theatrical version and almost all cuts were decided by him, the extended version is often mislabeled as a "director's cut

 

[Timstuff]

It's like destroying a virus.

If something simply spreads destruction its elimination benefits everyone.

You're not destroying it out of greed, paranoia or spite, the way humans destroy.

So in other words, anything can be justified if done for the right reason-- even the genocide of another species. If a human had been attempting to do what the water fairies were doing, they'd undoubtedly be the villain of the movie. The only reason the water fairies got a free pass is because they are not human, and thus people make the assumption that they are somehow "wiser" than humans and therefore are in a better position than us to judge whether or not we should exist.

If America were to drop a nuke on a country like Iran or North Korea, would that be seen as "eliminating a virus" since they "spread destruction" and "eliminate benefits for everyone?" I highly doubt it. You can rationalize it all you want, but the fact of the matter is that it's blighting an entire field of crops just to kill a couple weeds-- except we're talking people here, not wheat. Really, the creatures in the movie are just as bad as humans, they just put on a better show.

 

[Timstuff]

Here's another way to look at it: if the aliens in Independence Day had shown us to destroy us not because they wanted to loot and plunder our planet of its resources, but because they percieve humans to be a destructive, greedy, and war-like species, would that have stopped the human race from fighting back? Would Bill Pullman have still delivered his epic speech and jumped into the F-18 at the end, or would he have just said "We had this coming for a long time. We deserve what's coming to us, and our best hope is to show them that we can change" ?

The creatures in The Abyss weren't in any better of a position to decide whether or not humans have the right to exist exist than the aliens from Independence Day. However, since are beautiful creatures who use nature as a weapon, and not ugly ones who use giant plasma canons, we're supposed to accept their their judgment on the matter is fair even if it's not in our best interest, just because their reason for doing it is different. Whatever their plans for the earth after we're gone may be don't really matter, because the point is that they want all humans dead and believe that they are in a position morally and scientifically to decide whether or not another species exists, which makes them no better than humans.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

So in other words, anything can be justified if done for the right reason-- even the genocide of another species. If a human had been attempting to do what the water fairies were doing, they'd undoubtedly be the villain of the movie. The only reason the water fairies got a free pass is because they are not human, and thus people make the assumption that they are somehow "wiser" than humans and therefore are in a better position than us to judge whether or not we should exist.

If America were to drop a nuke on a country like Iran or North Korea, would that be seen as "eliminating a virus" since they "spread destruction" and "eliminate benefits for everyone?" I highly doubt it. You can rationalize it all you want, but the fact of the matter is that it's blighting an entire field of crops just to kill a couple weeds-- except we're talking people here, not wheat. Really, the creatures in the movie are just as bad as humans, they just put on a better show.

It's not a "couple of weeds". Almost every industrialized nation has nukes. Those nukes could turn the Earth into a wasteland in a couple of minutes.

If there was a nuclear holocaust the aliens would have clearly been right to consider wiping out the human race because we were such a threat to the Earth. Hell, if humans thought cats were going to bring about armageddon we would do our best to eradicate them.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Here's another way to look at it: if the aliens in Independence Day had shown us to destroy us not because they wanted to loot and plunder our planet of its resources, but because they percieve humans to be a destructive, greedy, and war-like species, would that have stopped the human race from fighting back? Would Bill Pullman have still delivered his epic speech and jumped into the F-18 at the end, or would he have just said "We had this coming for a long time. We deserve what's coming to us, and our best hope is to show them that we can change" ?

The creatures in The Abyss weren't in any better of a position to decide whether or not humans have the right to exist exist than the aliens from Independence Day. However, since are beautiful creatures who use nature as a weapon, and not ugly ones who use giant plasma canons, we're supposed to accept their their judgment on the matter is fair even if it's not in our best interest, just because their reason for doing it is different. Whatever their plans for the earth after we're gone may be don't really matter, because the point is that they want all humans dead and believe that they are in a position morally and scientifically to decide whether or not another species exists, which makes them no better than humans.

Ultimately, the abyss aliens didn't hurt one person where the ID4 aliens killed millions.

Maybe the abyss aliens were just trying to send a message to scare us straight. It was an empty threat to stop the destructive trends of the human race. You have no proof that the abyss aliens were capable of hurting anyone..

 

[dark_b]

yes Cameron made 200 mil for Avatar.yes Avatar made 2 billion worldwide. yes i understand that Cameron is hated.


but come on , to open a thread because you are angry about Avatar?

 

[Timstuff]

yes Cameron made 200 mil for Avatar.yes Avatar made 2 billion worldwide. yes i understand that Cameron is hated.


but come on , to open a thread because you are angry about Avatar?

I wasn't even going to say something about Avatar originally. I thought of that right before I was about to submit the thread and I thought it was funny. I did not make this thread because "I hate Avatar." I made this thread because I had this thought about The Abyss and I wanted other people's opinions on it.

 

[dark_b]

i was just joking hehehhehehehee.