Sony: "The PS2 is still important"

[Havok83]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/88681-Sony-PS2-is-Still-Important

Following heavy financial losses in its gaming division, Sony's John Koller has emphasized the importance of continuing to support the PlayStation 2.

Less than a year away from its 10th anniversary, Sony's PlayStation 2 console continues to sell, reaching a massive 50 million units sold in North America alone this decade.

Koller, director of hardware marketing at SCEA, spoke with Gamasutra to acknowledge that the "PS2 is still important" to the technology conglomerate.

"The only way to kill the PS2 business is to stop supporting it," said Koller.

"It's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy; as it continues to sell, development continues, and consumers continue to buy," continued Koller on the console's expansive library backed by a decade of game development across every genre. "There's such a wide range of entertainment experiences available that I think it would be very difficult for people to complain, 'this console doesn't have anything that appeals to me'."

Once the PS3 was released and the PS2's price was dropped to $130, Koller noticed "changes in who's purchased the system... as we've gone along we've had various demographics entering into the marketplace."
In a short span of a few years, the music genre (led by Guitar Hero, which debuted on the PS2) and the Nintendo Wii's casual games flourished, introducing a tidal wave of previous non-gamers into the market. Koller commented, "We've made a lot of focus into the family-friendly type gaming environment and also being able to promote the overall value of the system to a lower income family."

While Sony's other gaming projects may be draining cash, PS2 production and sales continue to be a "positive margin business, and a significant contributor for us."

Expect the system to stick around for some time too; Sony is still talking to publishers and developers about porting projects onto the aging platform.

"As part of their portfolio the PS2 is still important," assured Koller. "We're on regular road shows, talking to each publisher to discuss the merits of continuing to develop for the PS2....We've spoken with developers on how to engender total family play -- retail is telling us how important it is."

The PS2 is well on its way to reach that 10 year life cycle. Its still selling pretty well and managed to sell 410,000 units in North America for Dec. Not too bad for an old system

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

IMO, the PS2 is one of the reason why the PS3 is failing.
Sony doesn´t have the guts to put it away like Microsoft and Nintendo did to their own last gen consoles.
I know that the PS2 was and still is huge, but if you don´t let it die, people will not go to the PS3.
It would have been very easy to discontinue the PS2 and make emulation on all PS3, that would have been a sucess.

 

[Tron Bonne]

You don't simply put away something that's still selling. The main reason that MS and Nintendo put away their last gen consoles isn't to promote their current ones, they did it because no one gave a damn about them anymore.

No, this PS2 is not hurting the PS3, at least not significantly. The PS1 was out and selling similarly to this in the first years of the PS2 and it didn't hurt it at all. Hell, the PS1 was still on the market up until 2006, it would be foolish and shortsighted of Sony to discontinue a system that sells pretty well and one that has such a massive userbase

And the PS3 is not 'failing', despite popular belief. Being in third place isn't really failing, it's just not winning. People seem to have such a hard time dividing those two things up

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

If you compare the PS3 with the Xbox or the Gamecube, yes, they are not failing; but when you compare to Sony´s previous consoles, yes, they are, so far anyway.
The PS1 sold 102 million units worldwide, the PS2 already surpassed 140 million units, those are the two best selling consoles ever.
The PS3 sold, so far, 20 million units only.
They only have the lead on the japonese market when compared to the 360, just because the 360 doesn´t sell in Japan.
Even with only 2 markets (US and Europe, let´s forget Japan), the 360 sold 28 millions so far.

I totally undertand the: "it would be foolish and shortsighted of Sony to discontinue a system that sells pretty well and one that has such a massive userbase", but, why make games for the PS2, when you could make them way better for the PS3?
Even if you still made PS2 games, make them capable of being run on the PS3, or put them on the PSN.
Sony is now starting to put PSP games on the PS3....my question is, why?
The PSP is a handheld from this generation, so, why not make that to the PS2 insted.
If you want to sell something, you need to take a few risks.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Do you realize the what failing means? The Sega Dreamcast was failing. I don't know the official numbers myself, but you said the PS3 is at 20 million and the 360 at 28 million. That's only 8 million. That's a pretty small gap when you consider it worldwide (Personally I thought it was more). If that little number difference is failing then the 360 must be failing as well since I'm willing to bet the Wii leads it by twice as much.

Once again, failing and losing are not always the same thing. And you can't really compare the PS3 with the PS1 (which was one the market a staggering 10+ years) and the PS2 (on the market 7 years) to a console that's been on the market barely two.

Why make games for the PS2 still? Because it's the best selling console ever and people are still buying it. If the Xbox haven't been the sales flop it was and sold half as much as the PS2 do you think they would have dropped it like they did?

I'm not sure what you mean by they make PSP games for PS3. I've seen more games be made for PSP then ported over to the PS2. As far as just putting all PS2 developed games on PSN, that would be the worst decision they could ever make. The PSN only has about 15 million users, and I would say a good portion of them only play games online and probably don't even bother with buying games over the PStore. That's not much compared to the 150 million userbase of the PS2.

You're right about Sony needing to put BC of PS2 games on PS3. That may help a little, but not much. The price point is the real problem here. If anything is making the PS3 'fail', it's that.

To discontinue the PS2 would be a terrible, terrible move on the part of Sony as of right now.

 

[Jick]

IMO, the PS2 is one of the reason why the PS3 is failing.
Sony doesn´t have the guts to put it away like Microsoft and Nintendo did to their own last gen consoles.
I know that the PS2 was and still is huge, but if you don´t let it die, people will not go to the PS3.
It would have been very easy to discontinue the PS2 and make emulation on all PS3, that would have been a sucess.

Besides the fact that it is still selling...not all people can afford a PS3, you know?
Give it time...

 

[Havok83]

I totally undertand the: "it would be foolish and shortsighted of Sony to discontinue a system that sells pretty well and one that has such a massive userbase", but, why make games for the PS2, when you could make them way better for the PS3?

And what big games is Sony making for the PS2? At this point, its biggest first party franchises on the system are Buzz and Singstar, both of which are on the PS3 as well. Sony’s primary focus has been the PS3. It got slammed early on for not sequiring many 3rd party exclusives, but one of its goals this generation has been to create original IPs for the PS3. They’ve done this by pouring money into their own developmental studios. They had Naughty Dog and Insomniac take a risk by making them step out of their comfort zone which included making mascot titles and they developed 2 of the best new series on the system with Uncharted and Resistance 2. They hope to achieve the same success with Sucker Punch and Infamous. They successfully resurrected Warhawk and it looks like they will do the same to Killzone despite early criticisms of people thinking they were foolish to make a sequel to a disappointing game. And this year we are getting God of War 3, not to mention Gran Turismo 5 is on the horizon. I fail to see how Sony isn’t focused on making great games for the PS3 in favor of the PS2.

Even if you still made PS2 games, make them capable of being run on the PS3, or put them on the PSN.
Sony is now starting to put PSP games on the PS3....my question is, why?
The PSP is a handheld from this generation, so, why not make that to the PS2 insted.
If you want to sell something, you need to take a few risks.

BC there is a casual market as we have seen with the Wii and 360. And Sony does bring PSP games to the PS2. Its one of the reasons why its still selling so well. Its easy for developers to port PSP games to the PS2 and vice versa bc they are so similar. The PSP is current and still getting games so they make a PS2 version alongside it or bring it down a few months down the line.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Besides the fact that it is still selling...not all people can afford a PS3, you know?
Give it time...

Give it time for what?
Even if it starts to sell better, it might very well be too late in the game to pass the 360.
If they lose the second place (it´s common knowledge that no one will beat the Wii), as they are now, they can only blame themselves.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Do you realize the what failing means? The Sega Dreamcast was failing.

The Dreamcast is not a good example of failure, because what killed Sega from being a console manufacture was not the Dreamcast or the PS2 like many think.
Sega killed Sega, Sega was killed by the same thing that killed almost every gaming, made the PC be what it is know, and opened door to the Playstation reign supreme....the CD.

I don't know the official numbers myself, but you said the PS3 is at 20 million and the 360 at 28 million. That's only 8 million. That's a pretty small gap when you consider it worldwide (Personally I thought it was more). If that little number difference is failing then the 360 must be failing as well since I'm willing to bet the Wii leads it by twice as much.

You have to remember that, of the 3 consoles, the 360 is the only one at a disadvantage, so, to actually be in second place is a huge victory.
Even if, in the end they end on third at the end of the "war", they are still a sucess, that, no one can take from them anymore; they doubled the units sold last gen in Japan and Europe, and they equaled the numbers in the US, only in three years.
But the reason i talk about a disadvantage is because of the 3 markets, the 360 only has 2, they will never sell in Japan, that´s just a lost cause.
It has nothing to do with games, price or quality, it has to do with the fact that the Japonses have two amazing national consoles, so, why would they jump to a foreign one?
And talking about markets, they are losing Europe, but that´s not that surpriseful, the lack of respect Sony show to Europe is unbelivable, the PSN store is laughable.
So, by being in second place, 8 million units ahead of the PS3, without one of the big markets, and with a huge hardware problem (Rrod) that´s something to write home about.
And that´s why i say that so far (things might change), the PS3 is a failure, not a failure per se, but a failure when compared to the competition and their own past.

One thing is for sure, the Playstation lost their edge, that´s a given. The Playstation is not that gigantic name it once was. And that´s not saying that they are worst, but the competition is way better.

PS -They will make money from me, i´ll buy a PS3, if all goes well, in June. But, then again, i´m all for the games, not for the manufactures; and i already know that the PS3 sucks in Europe, that´s why i have a 360 and love it.

 

[Tron Bonne]

The Dreamcast is not a good example of failure, because what killed Sega from being a console manufacture was not the Dreamcast or the PS2 like many think.
Sega killed Sega, Sega was killed by the same thing that killed almost every gaming, made the PC be what it is know, and opened door to the Playstation reign supreme....the CD.

No, the Dreamcast is a perfect example of failure. Outside of Japan it was a total flop. Sega killing Sega has nothing to do with what we're talking about. I'm just showing an example of a true failure. If you want I could use the examples like the Saturn or the 3DO, instead

You have to remember that, of the 3 consoles, the 360 is the only one at a disadvantage, so, to actually be in second place is a huge victory.

The 360 at a disadvantage? It was the first console on the market and was easy to develop for. Not to mention the already very strong base it had in North America. It is true that Japan is a lost cause, but even the original Xbox sold extremely well here and since NA is the biggest market, I would consider that a pretty good advantage actually.

But the reason i talk about a disadvantage is because of the 3 markets, the 360 only has 2, they will never sell in Japan, that´s just a lost cause.

True, but unfortunately that doesn't mean we can just disqualify it.

And talking about markets, they are losing Europe, but that´s not that surpriseful, the lack of respect Sony show to Europe is unbelivable, the PSN store is laughable.

They aren't losing Europe by that much at all considering the lead MS had and the still too high price of the PS3. Last I heard it was only around like 1-2 million units, which isn't all that much really.

So, by being in second place, 8 million units ahead of the PS3, without one of the big markets, and with a huge hardware problem (Rrod) that´s something to write home about.
And that´s why i say that so far (things might change), the PS3 is a failure, not a failure per se, but a failure when compared to the competition and their own past.

And, once again, I will say, losing is not always failure. I don't want to sound condescending here or anything, but to call the PS3 a failure at this point is wrong for two reasons:

1) You are comparing it to the PS2 and PS1. You can't really fairly do that right now since those two were on the market so long and the PS3 hasn't been.

Now, I will say I can easily take your point on the PS3 being a failure overall compared to those two, but we need to wait until the PS3 is done to accurately make that claim.

2) It is true that they are losing now, but Sony is catching steam and even though it's slow really, the PS3 is selling. To call something a failure is to basically say that the system is not gaining any major steam (3DO) or just pigeon held in one major market (DreamCast, Saturn). The PS3 doesn't fit those, yet. Not to say that it won't, but it's pretty hard to judge something as a true blue failure until it's time is up, unless it's just obvious within the first year or two that the system is headed for the dump (DreamCast), despite what some think I really don't think the PS3 is so far down the tubes to judge it as that, and since it's still bubbling...

One thing is for sure, the Playstation lost their edge, that´s a given. The Playstation is not that gigantic name it once was. And that´s not saying that they are worst, but the competition is way better.

Oh, yeah, Sony has lost a big foothold, no doubt. I'm not really trying to argue in favor of them, persay, but in the end I think the PS3 may be an overall disappointment, but not a failure.

Now if it comes down to it and when all is said and done and our future selves and the next generation judge it as so, you have full permission to rub it in my face. All I'm really saying is that calling something a failure is pretty drastic and, as of now, I think seriously calling the PS3 a failure is off.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

Notice that, everytime i said that the PS3 was a failure, i also said...SO FAR

And i´ll tell you why, after 2 years in the market, the PS2 had sold 42.5 million units (less than the Wii that sold 45.88 million so far), i don´t have the numbers for the PS1 worlwide, but it had sold 18 million is Japan alone, more than the 8 million of the Wii.
So, yeah, i stick by it, SO FAR, it´s a failure, and like i said, not a failure per se, no one is a failure when they sell 20 million worlwide in 2 years, but they are in comparison to what the Playstation name accomplished in it´s previous incarnations.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yes, I can read very well, thank you. But you are still calling the PS3 a failure and which I'm debunking that statement, even up to this point:

2) It is true that they are losing now, but Sony is catching steam and even though it's slow really, the PS3 is selling. To call something a failure is to basically say that the system is not gaining any major steam (3DO) or just pigeon held in one major market (DreamCast, Saturn). The PS3 doesn't fit those, yet. Not to say that it won't, but it's pretty hard to judge something as a true blue failure until it's time is up, unless it's just obvious within the first year or two that the system is headed for the dump (DreamCast), despite what some think I really don't think the PS3 is so far down the tubes to judge it as that, and since it's still bubbling...

The bold is essentially why I'm saying that calling the PS3, even up to this point, a failure isn't correct

You can't call the PS3 failure right now because it is gaining steam still and it is not pigeon held in one region. So, calling it a failure as of right now is wholly inaccurate. A disappointment maybe, but those two aren't always one and the same.

 

[Isildur´s Heir]

ok
Let´s agree to disagree and end this

 

[Tron Bonne]

Ok, it's fine by me. I think you and me have a completely different interpretation of what warrants the label of a 'failure', whether it be an overall failure or just a failure to a point

No damage done, though

 

[Jick]

Give it time for what?

For these people who aren't able to afford a PS3 to buy one. Money doesn't grown on trees...
Give them time...

 

[Spider-Jay]

Notice that, everytime i said that the PS3 was a failure, i also said...SO FAR

And i´ll tell you why, after 2 years in the market, the PS2 had sold 42.5 million units (less than the Wii that sold 45.88 million so far), i don´t have the numbers for the PS1 worlwide, but it had sold 18 million is Japan alone, more than the 8 million of the Wii.
So, yeah, i stick by it, SO FAR, it´s a failure, and like i said, not a failure per se, no one is a failure when they sell 20 million worlwide in 2 years, but they are in comparison to what the Playstation name accomplished in it´s previous incarnations.

According to that logic, a Playstation system on its own merits compared to its predecessors, yes it is a failure. But is that really a big deal?

Even though the PS2 and PS1 were the two top selling systems of all time, did you really expect the PS3 to power to the top considering:

a) It is the most expensive (and deservingly so)
b) It incorporates new technology that at the beginning wasn't even expected to be the dominant format
c) It launched a considerable while after its main competitor (a year, even more in some regions)
d) It is the toughest to develop for
e) the current state of the economy?
f) the explosion of casual gaming
g) It was marketed not solely as a gaming machine but as an all-around hi-def system.

Did you ever consider these disadvantages? Yet despite these obstacles it has STILL managed to sell at a rate comparable to its main competitor. On top of that, after a rough start it has finally caught up to its competitors in terms of gaming value.

Yes, it is a "failure" compared to its older brothers, but it's a laughable exaggeration of the big picture considering that viewpoint looks at only ONE domain. 2008 is not 1995 or 2000. These are different times and it is ridiculous to compare the PS3 to the PS2 and PS1 simply on the numbers without taking into account context.

PS: It is NOTHING but a good thing that Sony continues to support its PS2 user base. Instead of completely abandoning their user base (ala Nintendo and MS), they've still for provided them.

 

[Hush]

Yeah I work at gamestop and used PS2 and new PS2 games sell more than used 360 games or new. People bring ps2 games up in three's. We also can't keep the system in stock. lol. It amazes me but I think BC would help the PS3 SO MUCH, i got one of the 80 gigs that are BC and man its just a life saver.

 

[iXenon]

IMO, the PS2 is one of the reason why the PS3 is failing.
Sony doesn´t have the guts to put it away like Microsoft and Nintendo did to their own last gen consoles.
I know that the PS2 was and still is huge, but if you don´t let it die, people will not go to the PS3.
It would have been very easy to discontinue the PS2 and make emulation on all PS3, that would have been a sucess.

PSOne didn't end until 2006 and PS2 was on the bestsellers list.

 

[Addendum]

For these people who aren't able to afford a PS3 to buy one. Money doesn't grown on trees...
Give them time...

Or it's called "manage your finances". I bought my 360 2 years after the launch. I waited for the price drop, and more games I wanted to play to come out, and to a lesser extent for the new motherboard.

The PS3 has had some price drops. It's simply a matter of setting aside some money, and cutting back on some stuff, while maintaining the bills. One can be surprised how much they can save by cutting back on going out to eat, watching or buying movies, buying music, buying books, etc. It's just a matter of having the balls to stick with it no matter what is released

 

[Havok83]

The PS3 has had some price drops.

Its really only had one. Originally its models went for $499 and $599 and now they go for $399 and $499. Its had several different models and bundles out there but they've never dipped lower than this

 

[Addendum]

But it's still a matter of saving up and cutting back on a few extra things to get one if someone can't afford to go out today and get one.

 

[Hush]

Apparenty they are going to drop again, thats what my DM said.

 

[Hush]

Yeah the 80 gig is going to drop around spring to $300.

 

[Havok83]

Yeah the 80 gig is going to drop around spring to $300.

Sony needs to do a real drop. Based on their history, one can see them discontinuing the 80gb and replacing it with a $399 120gb and a $499 200gb game bundle. Nah, thats going to work again.

 

[Jick]

Or it's called "manage your finances". I bought my 360 2 years after the launch. I waited for the price drop, and more games I wanted to play to come out, and to a lesser extent for the new motherboard.

The PS3 has had some price drops. It's simply a matter of setting aside some money, and cutting back on some stuff, while maintaining the bills. One can be surprised how much they can save by cutting back on going out to eat, watching or buying movies, buying music, buying books, etc. It's just a matter of having the balls to stick with it no matter what is released

That's true.
Even so, this might take quite some time for some.
The price of the PS3 where I live must be approximately $900 in the US.
We really need some price drops.

Yeah the 80 gig is going to drop around spring to $300.

When's spring to you?