Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 104

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[The Joker]

Imo Spidey generally being a motormouth is what's important and that was endearingly delivered in Civil War.

Seconded.

In another note, what do you think of Shocker's look?

I really like it. They got the core basic look of the character right, and added some updated touches like the black pants.

 

[Web-Head]

I felt like the Falcon remark was there to say "Look! This Spider-Man is a motormouth, aren't you happy fans?"

I think that's what I'm looking forward to the most in the next trailer is to see if there's any good quipping.

The Avengers line was a step in the right direction.


Also:All the people complaining that we keep talking about the quips are the same who said "As long as they nail Peter and Spidey, I don't care about the supporting cast."

Well, to us the quips play a big part in nailing Spider-Man.

 

[Web-Head]

Shocker- I think the suit looks great. I bet it'll look even better in action and possible CGI to make it even better.

 

[harryoscop]

I look forward to the day when I'll come in here and not see harry and Dark Raven moaning about quips.

I look foward to the day where I go into a Leto Joker thread and not see you among other fans complaining about his characterization and design (in all seriousness, Leto is being unfairly bashed everyday in that thread) The quips are a legitimate complaint fans have had that goes all the way to the Raimi films. Spidey being (reduced) to nothing more than a character who talks a lot is not enough, I'm afraid.

 

[Neno_Kos]

shocker look sucks.

 

[Marvel Spider]

Yeah I'm not a fan of it either. At least not what it looks like there. There's a part of me that thinks maybe the "Schultz with Shocker sleeves" look will be all we get anyways.

 

[First Avenger]

I look foward to the day where I go into a Leto Joker thread and not see you among other fans complaining about his characterization and design (in all seriousness, Leto is being unfairly bashed everyday in that thread) The quips are a legitimate complaint fans have had that goes all the way to the Raimi films. Spidey being (reduced) to nothing more than a character who talks a lot is not enough, I'm afraid.

So it's fine to bash a good,well-received representation of Spider-Man everyday but it's not right to bash a razzie-nominated bastardization of one of the best and most iconic villains of all time?

 

[harryoscop]

I felt like the Falcon remark was there to say "Look! This Spider-Man is a motormouth, aren't you happy fans?"


I think that's what I'm looking forward to the most in the next trailer is to see if there's any good quipping.


The Avengers line was a step in the right direction.




Also:All the people complaining that we keep talking about the quips are the same who said "As long as they nail Peter and Spidey, I don't care about the supporting cast."


Well, to us the quips play a big part in nailing Spider-Man.

Precisely:

FEIGE: Well, you nailed it. His presence in Civil War was meant to be the counterpoint. The other heroes have a lot of history together. They have a lot of angst, they have a lot of geopolitical issues that they’re dealing with, and it’s heavy. This kid basically feels like he hit the jackpot. The most famous man in the world, Tony Stark, asks him to go to Germany and participate with the Avengers and he loves every minute of it. That’s fun. That’s who Spider-Man is, and we can and will do much more of this in Spider-Man: Homecoming. You saw it in the comics; he constantly talks. In Civil War he goes up against Falcon and at one point Falcon says, “I don’t know if you’ve been in a fight before, but there’s usually not this much talking.” That’s Spider-Man to us.

"You saw it in the comics; He constantly talks' that, right there is where they missed the mark. It sounds like they opened up a Spider-Man comic, stared at it from afar at all of the sentence bubbles & said "Okay guys, he talks a lot and he's a kid. Let's make him talk a lot & say kid stuff'

 

[harryoscop]

So it's fine to bash a good,well-received representation of Spider-Man everyday but it's not right to bash a razzie-nominated bastardization of one of the best and most iconic villains of all time?

No, they can bash whatever they want to. I'm just throwing it right back at Joker because he and other Joker fans bash Leto everyday on the Hype. Go into the Leto thread right now and you'll see them complaining about his look, his obsession with Harley, him owning clubs, his laugh, Leto himself etc. Why is wrong for us to complain about Spider-Man's line of humor in Civil War when it was done so poorly in our opinion?

 

[The Joker]

I look foward to the day where I go into a Leto Joker thread and not see you among other fans complaining about his characterization and design (in all seriousness, Leto is being unfairly bashed everyday in that thread)

Fans have every right to complain since they have seen a full and completed characterization of the character in a movie. They are judging what WB deemed fit to say this is the Joker in our universe. One who had multiple scenes in the movie. They are not looking at just one or two scenes and saying this character sucks.

You on the other hand are complaining daily about quips in one single scene of CW.

The quips are a legitimate complaint fans have had that goes all the way to the Raimi films. Spidey being (reduced) to nothing more than a character who talks a lot is not enough, I'm afraid.

It would be a legitimate complaint if you were basing this endless daily complaining on more than one single fight scene.

 

[harryoscop]

Fans have every right to complain since they have seen a full and completed characterization of the character in a movie. They are judging what WB deemed fit to say this is the Joker in our universe. One who had multiple scenes in the movie. They are not looking at just one or two scenes and saying this character sucks.

How so? Joker had as much screen time as Tom Holland's Spider-Man in the MCU. Probably less, actually. I could just as easily apply the same argument to Leto-- that it wasn't the complete picture because his scenes were chopped to **** in the editing room. He said he shot enough footage to make a fricking Joker movie. Holland on the other hand was the complete picture. He was exactly as they intended him to be portrayed the movie & an introduction to his character.

You on the other hand are complaining daily about quips in one single scene of CW.

Just like you & other fans complaining about him loving Harley daily. They monopolise the thread with negativity.

It would be a legitimate complaint if you were basing this endless daily complaining on more than one single fight scene.

I'm basing it off of his entire screen time as Spider-Man. He was in three different locations and fought four different characters and he was written the same way in all three scenes. The Spidey introduction scene, the Spidey vs. Falcon/Bucky scene, the Cap scene and the Giant Man scene.

 

[PeterBenParker]

What if Schultz gets killed off and the 'official' Shocker turns out to be LMG?

 

[Dark Raven]

What if Schultz gets killed off and the 'official' Shocker turns out to be LMG?

LMG? Life Model Goon?

 

[The Joker]

How so? Joker had as much screen time as Tom Holland's Spider-Man in the MCU. Probably less, actually. I could just as easily apply the same argument to Leto-- that it wasn't the complete picture because his scenes were chopped to **** in the editing room. He said he shot enough footage to make a fricking Joker movie. Holland on the other hand was the complete picture. He was exactly as they intended him to be portrayed the movie & an introduction to his character.

It's nothing to do with screen time. It's about quality, not quantity. In SS the Joker was established as a night club owner, one who dresses in tattoos and bling bling jewelry, and drab gangster outfits rather than clownish clothing. The character's entire role was dedicated to just getting his gf back because he missed her. His relationship with Harley was completely changed.

What WB chose to put into the movie is the complete picture. Footage that was cut out was cut out for a reason. They didn't want it. It didn't fit with the version they wanted to put out there. The extended cut didn't include anything that changed the Joker's character either. They included the scene where Harley confronts Joker on the motorcycle for example, but didn't put in the part where he hits her. Because that is not the Joker they want. So this is what WB want their Joker to be.

Holland on the other hand had the bare essentials of his character established; middle class kid, Science geek, living with his Aunt, and secretly a superhero who does it for moral heroic reasons. He is a newbie hero.

Leto Joker on the other hand is supposed to be a veteran of many years, like Batfleck. So we can't even put down his awful characterization to teething troubles or hope of change.

Just like you complaining about him loving Harley daily.

Which is legitimate because that's the characterization we're lumbered with. Whereas you are complaining about the quality of quips in ONE single scene.

You focus on one thing you didn't like, and you milk it to the point that you make this thread a daily venting ground repeating over and over that you hated it.

That's your entire schtick. To amplify negativity as much as possible, and often in the most childish ways e.g. I saw what you tried to do with the negative voting on Holland in the elimination game after the game was over and he'd already lost. A moderator had to close the thread and tell you the game was done because they saw how childish you were being.

I'm basing it off of his entire screen time as Spider-Man. He was in three different locations and fought four different characters and he was written the same way in all three scenes. The Spidey introduction scene, the Spidey vs. Falcon/Bucky scene, the Cap scene and the Giant Man scene.

Three different locations? He was at the airport. That is one location. Just because you move around different rooms in a house doesn't mean you are not still in the house.

This is exactly what it was. An intro scene, where this newbie Spidey was facing legendary characters. Acting more starstruck than smart mouth was not some horrid bastardization of the character, nor an indicator that he will not be more witty in the solo movie. But you latch onto it like a life preserver and barely entertain the idea that the quips will be better in the movie, because discussing the negative is the only thing that appeals to you.

 

[PeterBenParker]

LMG? Life Model Goon?

Logan Marshall-Green.

There's two Shockers in the film after all, so I'm expecting one of 'em to get arrested while the other gets away.

Still think Vulture's dying, too. Could be a nice callback to the first Raimi film.

 

[BatsDC]

I wonder if Blackie Drago will be in the film

 

[PeterBenParker]

I wonder if Blackie Drago will be in the film

That'd be cool, and that could be a way of keeping Vulture around if Toomes does get killed off.

 

[Infinity9999x]

How so? Joker had as much screen time as Tom Holland's Spider-Man in the MCU. Probably less, actually. I could just as easily apply the same argument to Leto-- that it wasn't the complete picture because his scenes were chopped to **** in the editing room. He said he shot enough footage to make a fricking Joker movie. Holland on the other hand was the complete picture. He was exactly as they intended him to be portrayed the movie & an introduction to his character.

Yeah...I get where you're coming from on some of your concerns Harry, but comparing Tom and Leto is a bit too extreme. Leto's Joker had a lot more going against it than Tom's Spidey did. Sure, I would have enjoyed more variety in his humor, but it was still within Spiderman's character to act the way he did in CW. Leto's Joker? He was just written poorly. No way around it.

 

[The Joker]

Yeah...I get where you're coming from on some of your concerns Harry, but comparing Tom and Leto is a bit too extreme. Leto's Joker had a lot more going against it than Tom's Spidey did. Sure, I would have enjoyed more variety in his humor, but it was still within Spiderman's character to act the way he did in CW. Leto's Joker? He was just written poorly. No way around it.

Thank you. They showed a lot more range with Letoker than they did with Holland's Spidey. How he runs his underworld, how he terrorizes victims, how he treats Harley, various outfits he likes to wear, how he feels when Harley is not around, the lengths he'll go to be with her, the brand of 'humor' he has in various scenes; "This handsome HUNK HUNKA", "All that chit chat's gonna get ya hurt", "She's the itch in my crotch. THE FIRE IN MY LOINS" etc etc.

He sucked. I see no reason why the character would change. He's supposed to be a veteran Joker of many years.

 

[harryoscop]

It's nothing to do with screen time. It's about quality, not quantity. In SS the Joker was established as a night club owner, one who dresses in tattoos and bling bling jewelry, and drab gangster outfits rather than clownish clothing. The character's entire role was dedicated to just getting his gf back because he missed her. His relationship with Harley was completely changed.

And CW Spidey was not quality in my eyes. Joker was still a gangster, still had a visual resemblance to a clown, still laughed and still acted crazy. He even talked about anarchy in that scene with Harleen Quinzel. You talk about the bling jewelry & gangster aesthetic (Which Joker was an old-fashioned gangster in the 40s') I equivalent that to Spidey wearing a mechanical Stark suit. (which he got the Iron Spider from Stark in the comics) Both have precedence but aren't relevant.

What WB chose to put into the movie is the complete picture. Footage that was cut out was cut out for a reason. They didn't want it. It didn't fit with the version they wanted to put out there. The extended cut didn't include anything that changed the Joker's character either. So this is what WB want their Joker to be.

The problems with Joker (like him loving Harley) could be applied to them cutting stuff up. He was a darker character in Ayer's original version which is what was true vision WB had. They only changed in a ditch effort (actually, Trailer Park edited the movie which explains the terrible Neon colors and random pop songs) to make up for BvS' tone that critics were bashing.

Holland on the other hand had the bare essentials of his character established; middle class kid, Science geek, living with his Aunt, and secretly a superhero who does it for moral heroic reasons. He is a newbie hero.

Same applies to Joker.

Leto Joker on the other hand is supposed to be a veteran of many years, like Batfleck. So we can't even put down his awful characterization to teething troubles or hope of change.

Ultimate Spidey was a rookie and I loved him the first time I read him in the first 5 issues. Great characterization. He was a quipping machine in his first fight at the Wrestling ring & second fight with Green Goblin. Spectacular Spider-Man was a rookie 3 months into his powers similarly to Holland and he was perfect: best adaptation of the comics. He was a quipping machine the first time we saw him. Marvel Adventures: Spider-Man was 3 days into his powers & I loved him. Quipping machine too. The og Spidey 616 Stan Lee Spidey I loved in the first issue. And was a quipping machine (I actually love the way Stan wrote the quips)

Which is legitimate because that's the characterization we're lumbered with. Whereas you are complaining about the quality of quips in ONE single scene.

I could've said the same thing about Holland if we hadn't seen the Homecoming trailer with the "Hulk gives it away" going by Feige's word of them continuing it in Homecoming. I'm hoping they drastically improve on his (non-existent) quips and characterization as a whole. You could hope for the same thing too because they could always revamp Leto's Joker for his next appearance.

You focus on one thing you didn't like, and you milk it to the point that you make this thread a daily venting ground repeating over and over that you hated it

You're basically describing the SS & Batman movie Joker threads because it literally has become a venting ground for angry fans to bash Leto on a daily basis. (not exaggerating at all)

That's your entire schtick. To amplify negativity as much as possible, and often in the most childish ways e.g. I saw what you tried to do with the negative voting on Holland in the elimination game after the game was over and he'd already lost. A moderator had to close the thread and tell you the game was done because they saw how childish you were being.

I'll admit, I did vote Holland down to a negative 1 but it was purely for humor's sake. The mod was right to shut it down

Three different locations? He was at the airport. That is one location. Just because you move around different rooms in a house doesn't mean you are not still in the house.

So I'm just suppose to turn a blind eye to their obvious attempt at making Spidey a talkative character? Yes, he was at the Airport but he was in four different parts with multiple chances to display classic Spidey humor as opposed to marveling at the science of the Avengers and what makes them tick. He only made TWO quips "I think you lost this" and "You have the right to remain silent"

This is exactly what it was. An intro scene, where this newbie Spidey was facing legendary characters. Acting more starstruck than smart mouth was not some horrid bastardization of the character, nor an indicator that he will not be more witty in the solo movie. But you latch onto it like a life preserver and barely entertain the idea that the quips will be better in the movie, because discussing the negative is the only thing that appeals to you.

Not true, every time I complain I always acknowledge that what we got in the Homecoming trailer was better than Civil War. And I do discuss things that I like about MCU Spidey & Homecoming. I love Shocker's suit & I made that clear on the last thread. I'm not always negative. That's hyperbole. In fact, in the early days of the MCU Spidey before Civil War & before Tom was even cast, I was one of the most positive posters on this forum. Constantly deeming Marvel's take to inevitably become the definitive Spidey. And I was cheering along with everyone else when he was revealed in the Civil War trailer. I was at the school library & I was screaming t the top of my lungs when I watched the trailer. So I'm not a harbinger of hate & unjust like some make me out to be. But a negative topic is bound to come up again at some point. Just ask the Justice League boards. It's the nature of the discussion

 

[Oscorp]

As much as I dislike the upper body of Shocker's look, I'm happy they simply gave him black pants and not brown undies-on-the-outside.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Is it possible they made Ant Man the quippier one in the movie and Spidey the more observational one just so they don't feel too redundANT? Spidey would probably be the more naturally observational of the two, no? Doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong, but I'd understand if it were the case.

 

[PeterBenParker]

As much as I dislike the upper body of Shocker's look, I'm happy they simply gave him black pants and not brown undies-on-the-outside.

To me, the design just seems confused. You have the classic yellow with mixes of orange, blue, black, and silver. The key to Shocker's design is its simplicity and simple color choices.

Is it possible they made Ant Man the quippier one in the movie and Spidey the more observational one just so they don't feel too redundant? Spidey would probably be the more naturally observational of the two, no? Doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong, but I'd understand if it were the case.

It could be, and it'd certainly explain why I enjoyed Ant-Man so much and why I was left wishing Spidey had been more akin to him.