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Discussion in 'Spider-Man: Homecoming' started by Thread Manager, Jul 28, 2016.
I wasn't suggesting that they should do another origin story. This is a new version of the character, and they are trying to sell this version, and Civil War is a backdoor pilot of sorts. You want to put your best foot forward, and in my case at least, making him a Tony Stark fanboy who does what Tony tells him because omg Iron Man isn't that.
*They could* go over his origin briefly in the opening titles similar to what they did in "SM2" with the Alex Ross drawings/paintings. But yeah... people know the origin story and they could always slip in flashbacks too or pull a "BvS" and quickly run through the origin story with the opening credits.
Exactly. This Spider-Man should've been like Ultimate/Spectacular in personality; he should've operated independently on the battefield. He shouldn't have been asking Tony "Mr. Stark, what should I do?" You're a fricking budding genuis scientist and you don't know what to do? Why did Tony have to tell you to web up Cap's legs? ANYBODY with a working neurological structure would have been able to figure that out. What is your best argument against fighting Captain America? "Because you're wrong and you think you're right" Are you 5 years old? Him saying that proved he didn't know what the hell he was getting himself into.
Spider-Man's quips for Homecoming:
Vulture: You think I'm afraid of a kid like you?
Spidey: You're old but you think you're young.
Shocker: There's no stopping me Spider-Man.
Spidey: You think you'll get away but you won't.
Tinkerer: It doesn't take a genius to outwit you.
Spidey: You think you're smart but you're not so smart.
Flash: No getting away from that Parker luck, huh?
Peter: You're mean but you think you're not.
Miles: You might die and then I'll have to take over as Spider-Man.
Peter: I don't want that to happen but I think it might.
Harry, he hasn't been doing this all that long. Six months I believe. And NOTHING on the scale of what he faced at the airport.
I'll repeat what I said a few pages back (earlier today):
For those worried that Spidey is becoming Tony's sidekick, let me try to alleviate your worries. I remember an interview with Feige saying they wanted to explore Pete trying to figure out how he fits in this world. Does he even want to do it like the other warring heroes (this was during filming of Civil War). Add to that, when Pete gives Tony the "with great power" reason for why he does it, it sounds almost exactly how Cap explained why he couldn't sign the accords. I think there's enough hints that Pete might actually break off from Tony to become his own hero.
So I'm not saying you can't have concerns. I have them too. Just take it from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: "Don't Panic!"
The way I see it, Peter went with Tony not because he made him or blackmailed him to do it and not because he was his idol.
It was because of his ideology and his beliefs. That speech he gave to Tony is why he went IMO.
He must have heard in the news about what happened with Steve and Bucky and Tony told him he can help and make a difference.
Also I don't think he was his sidekick or anything like that. Peter was active for six months before Tony went to him and Tony went to him to get his help because he was really good at what he did all by himself.
And yet the overwhelming reception to him was positive. This is what I don't get. This perception that they did him a disservice pretty much only exists here. Everyone else thought he was fine and one of the highlights of the movie.
No. Literally nobody else needed to see it again. That would've just taken up even more screen time and it wasn't necessary. People were already making jokes about how unnecessary it was when the first ASM movie spent the first half of the film showing his origin again. Nobody needed it a third time and they definitely didn't need it in someone else's movie.
Spectacular Spidey only had his powers for 6 months too and he was already taking on the fricking mob, fighting the Lizard and Electro. Ultimate Peter had his powers for a few DAYS and he went toe-to-toe with a roided out Hulk Goblin. Raimi Peter also had his powers for, like, a week and ge defeated the Green Goblin. Webb Peter defeated The Lizard and don't even get me started on all of the enemies Peter faced in the early comics. Did they need to have someone hold their hand through every step of the way -- This version of Spidey had more time than all of them to master his skils, yet he couldn't even figure out how to web someone's leg up.
And I always assumed Feige was talking about Spidey in Civil War. But the things he was describing: "Peter trying to find his place in the world, he's now in a world inhabited by these established, larger-than-life heroes but does he want to be like these other heroes? the drama comes from this kid being thrown into adult situations' etc sounded SOO good and was pretty much Ultimate Peter & early Ditko/616 Peter's arc. But we haven't seen any of that so far.
That depends on where you're looking. If you're looking at a comic forum, with people who are established in the Mythos, they're probably going to have more of a problem with portrayal than a general fan of the character.
And an origin flashback wouldn't have taken anymore than 15 seconds and nobody would have complained.
I frequent comic book message boards and the overwhelming reaction to the character was still fine. I don't mean that to be a dick, but even on here it seems like most of the negativity comes from the same select group of people.
Luckily, we won't get this level of quips from Spider-Man.
Well we've only seen 9 minutes of him so......
I frequent comic message boards too, and as soon you start bringing up the Tony Stark thing, a lot of them have a problem with it. I remember a good amount of fans having a problem with Stark giving him his suit & Webshooters when the rumors started surfacing and I follow some guys who didn't care for Sidekick Spidey in Civil War. Of course there's many fans that loved the portrayal too (more probably liked it than disliked it) -- but my point is, you're going to find more variety of opinions on a Spidey comic forum than say, Twitter or Facebook.
Bingo. Could that have come later? Sure, but not in his first appearance within this new continuity. Hence why I disagreed with NSLA's post about proving Peter/Spidey being a Stark fanboy. Wasn't about that as it was moreso in his first appearance they made him reckless and incompetent without Tony guiding him (aka a mentor/sidekick mentality).
Sure, he was only Spider-Man for 6 months but again, they cut him short within his first appearance with his immaturity and naive attitude.
It should be. Oscorp is a big part of the Spidey world. Even though we never saw the Bugle in the TASM series we still knew it existed.
I'm guessing we're not getting the Daily Bugle in this film series just yet. In the Raimi version, we saw set pics of the Bugle trucks quite early on. There's been absolutely no hint of this at all this time round.
I'm assuming you guys took out the possibility that its possible he has a ark where he becomes independent over the film? I'm a hardcore fan and I would love a character evolution like that.
I think people are getting the wrong idea of what I was saying earlier, Not saying you cant criticize or be doubtful (I am approaching with caution too) but ringing the doomsday bell and saying Marvel has already ruined the character after only 20 minutes of footage I think is too much. And then saying that anyone who thinks Marvel isn't ruining the character isn't a fan who knows the mythos then that's also blasphemy because well he has had only 20 minutes and no time to evolve as a character into what we all know and love.
AGAIN not saying not to criticize, just saying to approach your problems with what might or might note be the case before any footage with more skepticism and less "doom and gloom".
You feel me?
I like Tom.
I like the suit.
I like Michael Keaton.
I liked what I saw in CW.
I have reason to be excited for Homecoming.
For sure man. Characters change and grow. The whole theme of homecoming is coming-of-age. Dude's 15. I'm definitely down to see him experience heartache and personal trials as well as being pushed to the brink by his rogue's and become his own man. That's the beauty of his character right now. They're in no rush to grow him up and that's gonna result in a better character in the end I think.
Great. But in the MCU, THIS is the first time he's gone up against "supers." Before that it was probably muggers and stray cars.
I'll grant you some of those things bothered me, but that doesn't mean that's how Spidey will act in every MCU film.
Feige also said he really wanted to explore Pete in high school. Did we get a lot of that in Civil War? No. Because, he was talking about Pete through the course of the films. This includes finding his way in the world.
When Pete gives Tony the "with great power" reason for why he does it, it sounds almost exactly how Cap explained why he couldn't sign the accords. I think there's enough hints that Pete might actually break off from Tony to become his own hero.
Been reading Spider-Man comics since 1973. I didn't really have a problem with Tom's Pete/Spidey. Garfield was the one I felt zero connection to.
I thought you were part of the bandwagon that said no to retelling the origin.
Exactly. It's also the case for Batman and other characters in the DCEU. These characters have a starting point, and Spidey in Civil War is not the final product. They start out with imperfections and evolve. That's the beauty and the whole point of having an extended universe. When all is said and done we'll be able to chart the evolution arc and appreciate it. But for now, it's one film at a time.
There's fans who dislike just about every change the movies ever make. That's their right but it's by no means any sort of consensus.
It's fine if someone dislikes how Spider-Man has been portrayed in Civil War, but it's a massive stretch to say that the movie somehow harmed his reputation or gave audiences a bad taste, is what I was saying. Even if there are naysayers his reception (as well as the film's in general) was extremely positive.
My point still stands. Those Spideys didn't know to how to handle enhanced supers either, but common sense prevailed for them which didn't register in this Spidey's brain for some reason.
Hopefully he doesn't, but the original point of the argument was this being his debut film, you'd think they'd want Spidey to look his best.
But that raises the question of why wasn't Cap the one seeking and recruiting Peter when Tony & Peter ideologies don't match.
I totally respect you for being a longtime Spidey fan. But what I meant was, EVERYBODY doesn't like what they saw in Civil War and if you go to a comic forum instead of Twitter/Instagram etc, you're more likely to find somebody who didn't like it due to the fact that they have a pre-conceived notion of how Spidey is suppose to be portrayed. Not saying comic fans didn't like it.
You got me confused with someone else, lol. I was one of the few completely fine with another origin story haha.
Thanks man, you get what I mean! Just wish others would at least see where I'm coming from and not jump to "your a marvel studios fanboiiiii".
Spidey in Civil War wasn't exactly facing hardcore super villains. He seemed a bit conflicted initially as to what the plan was since they were facing other heroes like Cap whom he seemed to admire and respect. It wasn't until they refused to surrender and decided to resist arrest that they were forced to engage.
I don't think there was a whole lot to take from him other than he is a 15 year old kid just starting to mix it up with people with super abilities. The youngest Spidey we ever have seen on the big screen. He will be faced with growing pains unlike anything we have seen before.