Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 90

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Minorities flip out if roles are whitewashed too. Just saying.

Thing is this is a character like Bond who has had years of longevity--- a popular character too. This isn't like changing the race of a character who not a lot of people are familiar with or has only been in comics for a few years, or will shrug their shoulders and go, "Oh well...."

GA probably has no clue who Ned Leeds, Herman Schultz/Shocker or some of the other characters are, but Mary Jane Watson... GA and the public know right away who that is. There's the difference. Look at what happened with Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm and having Sue be adopted. It's changing for the sake of changing versus respecting the source. Huge difference.


If Goku/Bulma/Major Motoko Kusanag/The Ancient One/Tonto/All of Exodus & Gods of Egypt can be white then they can change freaking Mary Jane.

Boo Hoo a black girl gets kidnapped by the super villain instead of a white one the plot is ruined forever
 
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If Goku/Bulma/Major Motoko Kusanag/The Ancient One/All of Exodus & Gods of Egypt can be white then they can change freaking Mary Jane.

Boo Hoo a black girl gets kidnapped instead of a white one the plot is ruined forever

:funny:
 
Minorities flip out if roles are whitewashed too. Just saying.

Thing is this is a character like Bond who has had years of longevity--- a popular character too. This isn't like changing the race of a character who not a lot of people are familiar with or has only been in comics for a few years, or will shrug their shoulders and go, "Oh well...."

GA probably has no clue who Ned Leeds, Herman Schultz/Shocker or some of the other characters are, but Mary Jane Watson... GA and the public know right away who that is. There's the difference. Look at what happened with Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm and having Sue be adopted. It's changing for the sake of changing versus respecting the source. Huge difference.

Mary Jane is on no level as big as James Bond.
 
^ And people have actually been clamoring for a black James Bond, so the analogy fails on that level as well.
 
Is it too much to ask that people please knock it off with this BS notion that "respecting the source material" means "being slavishly loyal to the source material"?

Like how FFINO respected the source material without being slavishly loyal to it? :o

We'd have to be glad you're not a painter. If someone came to you for a portrait, they'd probably end up looking completely different or undergoing a race change, and you'd say that you were still respecting the "source material" but just not being slavishly loyal to it. :o
 
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God damn if they're making several people Shocker, I'm out. I'm getting tired of hearing of all these changes!
 
The #2 is almost certainly referring to a stunt double or body double also being present
 
@Dark Raven:

Examples of stuff that has "respected the source material" while at the same time making changes (sometimes dramatically):
* The Lord of the Rings Trilogy

* The Hobbit Trilogy

* The 8 Harry Potter films

* The Chronicles of Narnia films

* Every MCU film to date

* MTV's The Shannara Chronicles

* iZombie

* Arrow

* The Flash

* Legends of Tomorrow

* Supergirl

* Constantine

* Vixen

* Smallville

* The upcoming Dark Tower film

* Batman Begins

* The Dark Knight

* The Dark Knight Rises

* Batman: The Animated Series

* Superman: The Animated Series

* The New Adventures of Batman and Robin

* Batman Beyond

The fact that you pick one movie that you personally disliked from the word "go" as an example to counter my assertion that it's BS to peddle the idea that something is only respecting the source material if it's slavishly loyal to said source material only proves my point.
 
Media have been invited to the set on Sunday so we should be hearing a lots of stuff hopefully.
 
Because Michelle wouldn't be a codename; it would most likely be the character's middle name, and the reveal of her full FIRST NAME (Mary-Jane) would be part of her character arc in the movie.
That's weirdly contrived... Like a diet Shyamalan plot twist. Is there anything supporting that hypothesis or is just a way of making head or tails of the situation? I don't picture her revealed to be MJ like Killian being the Mandarin or something, just adding complexity to the movie where it is not needed (I suppose, 'cause I can picture the plot where that adds value, instead of just doing a "shock! look what we did! Surprise!")
 
Either way, she's MJ.

Really wouldn't make statements like this just yet.

The #2 is almost certainly referring to a stunt double or body double also being present

That is by far the weirdest thing on that cast list. :huh:

Media have been invited to the set on Sunday so we should be hearing a lots of stuff hopefully.

Hoping we might get a bit of a better idea about what this movie is going for.
 
So apparently in that cast interview where Jon revealed who the cast was playing Tom and Zendaya shared a look, which contributed to be questioning Jon before the whole news broke out.

I wish I actually watched the interview before all this stuff happened b/c now with all the news/rumors it definitely feels like "suspicious".

[YT]XDXUK7wC3P8[/YT]
 
She is MJ. Marvel and Sony haven't denied it and nobody in the know has called TheWrap's report incorrect. People are free to live in their own little world until the film comes out and they have to face reality.
 
MJ wasn't the Liz Allen of the college years. Liz was the unattainable girl who got won over, during the college years, IIRC. MJ was down for Peter from the get go. Always has been. She just happens to be super hot, even though Peter didn't see it at first.

The Pygmalion concept isn't just about dressing up and looking nice for a Homecoming dance... everyone does that. It's about transforming who you are in order to get acceptance. By the time two leads of a film get to the end of the movie, they've already accepted each other. In Pygmalion, the physical change is prompted by outside forces early in the story (like in She's All That or The Little Mermaid or even The Breakfast Club), not from an internal change, like in every superhero flick ever, that manifests at the end of the story. This is why the idea that the reveal occurs at the end of the film not only avoids the basic Pygmalion plot in favor of the same physical transformation subtext from every movie ever, but also actually gives us the jackpot scene in a way an unattainable girl just can't. The only other way to do it is to do it the way the comics did, and simply have MJ be an unseen character. I think having her dressed down for school and 'clean up nice' is a much more artful, realistic and interesting way to do it. I really don't know why people are so quick to give up the power of MJ's iconic jackpot scene in favor of this unattainable girl schlock. Especially when we already have Liz around.

But to each his own.

Still not Pygmalion tho. :susd:

dude peter knew MJ was hot from the moment he first met her on the blind date. he just wasn't into her personality.
 
I don't really care for the surprise element.

Now if they could pull off the whole movie without any of the characters referring to her by name and only speaking with pronouns when referring to her, or when talking to her only saying "you". That would be cool, because then you could keep the audience in mystery, but also not make the characters look foolish by calling her a name that no one will continue to associate her with.

the surprise element to me is more of a "lets keep this a secret so we don't get fans angry especially after the MBJ and Woodley stuff"
 
Great post by James Gunn:

https://www.facebook.com/jgunn/posts/10153548508766157

Especially this...

For me, if a character's primary attribute - the thing that makes them iconic - is the color of their skin, or their hair color, frankly, that character is shallow and sucks. For me, what makes MJ MJ is her alpha female playfulness, and if the actress captures that, then she'll work. And, for the record, I think Zendaya even matches what I think of as MJ's primary physical characteristics - she's a tall, thin model - much more so than actresses have in the past.

Nailed it.
 
So apparently in that cast interview where Jon revealed who the cast was playing Tom and Zendaya shared a look, which contributed to be questioning Jon before the whole news broke out.

I wish I actually watched the interview before all this stuff happened b/c now with all the news/rumors it definitely feels like "suspicious".

[YT]XDXUK7wC3P8[/YT]

Haha the slight look of panic on Watts' face before he quickly just named the characters.
 
Really wouldn't make statements like this just yet.

Fair enough to you, but I'm making it easily. :yay:

She is MJ. Marvel and Sony haven't denied it and nobody in the know has called TheWrap's report incorrect. People are free to live in their own little world until the film comes out and they have to face reality.

Only ones I see stating it's incorrect are on here, really.
 
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Boo Hoo a black girl gets kidnapped by the super villain instead of a white one the plot is ruined forever

2a7wnyd.jpg
 
Great post by James Gunn:

https://www.facebook.com/jgunn/posts/10153548508766157

Especially this...

For me, if a character's primary attribute - the thing that makes them iconic - is the color of their skin, or their hair color, frankly, that character is shallow and sucks. For me, what makes MJ MJ is her alpha female playfulness, and if the actress captures that, then she'll work. And, for the record, I think Zendaya even matches what I think of as MJ's primary physical characteristics - she's a tall, thin model - much more so than actresses have in the past.

Nailed it.

If James Gunn and Dan Slott can make comments like these, I fail to see the overall issue. I'm sure Sam Raimi and Marc Webb would state the same, too. :oldrazz:
 
If Goku/Bulma/Major Motoko Kusanag/The Ancient One/Tonto/All of Exodus & Gods of Egypt can be white then they can change freaking Mary Jane.

didnt everyone flip out about each of these?
 
Great post by James Gunn:

https://www.facebook.com/jgunn/posts/10153548508766157

Especially this...

For me, if a character's primary attribute - the thing that makes them iconic - is the color of their skin, or their hair color, frankly, that character is shallow and sucks. For me, what makes MJ MJ is her alpha female playfulness, and if the actress captures that, then she'll work. And, for the record, I think Zendaya even matches what I think of as MJ's primary physical characteristics - she's a tall, thin model - much more so than actresses have in the past.

Nailed it.

Bingo
 
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