Homecoming Spider-Man Homecoming (2017) General Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 91

[TheVileOne]

I could be wrong, but I believe they're trying to do the iconic MJ moment, where she shows up on Peter's doorstep and says "Face it Tiger, You've hit the Jackpot" and his jaw, and the audience's jaw, drops.

There's three really important aspects to this scene.

1) She is interested in Peter.
2) Peter is surprised that she is attractive.
3) The audience is invested in the MJ character

Except when that moment happens in the comics, that was her first full-on appearance. Peter had never actually met the character before in his life at that point in person. Peter is surprised about her being this knockout because his aunt was trying to set him up on a date with a girl he'd never met, blah blah blah.

Either way, none of this means people have to be on board with her casting, or else they are racist.

The main references for Zendaya's acting are her Disney shows. Now you know what, she might very well be or become a great actress. I believe she deserves a chance to prove herself, especially if she wants to become a legit actress.

But I have to laugh at the notion of if you don't believe she's the absolute best choice for the part or that she's a great actress based off her very limited work and Disney sitcoms, you're some sort of bigot.

No offense to Jessica Alba, but she was never able to prove she was the best choice for Sue Storm. She got the opportunity, and you had a director saying she gave the single best audition, but she was not a good Sue Storm.

 

[X Knight]

Except when that moment happens in the comics, that was her first full-on appearance. Peter had never actually met the character before in his life at that point in person. Peter is surprised about her being this knockout because his aunt was trying to set him up on a date with a girl he'd never met, blah blah blah.

Either way, none of this means people have to be on board with her casting, or else they are racist.

The main references for Zendaya's acting are her Disney shows. Now you know what, she might very well be or become a great actress. I believe she deserves a chance to prove herself, especially if she wants to become a legit actress.

But I have to laugh at the notion of if you don't believe she's the absolute best choice for the part or that she's a great actress based off her very limited work and Disney sitcoms, you're some sort of bigot.

No offense to Jessica Alba, but she was never able to prove she was the best choice for Sue Storm. She got the opportunity, and you had a director saying she gave the single best audition, but she was not a good Sue Storm.

if they wanted to go for the "mystery" route, I'd rather they do what you described.

we ( and hence Peter ) never see MJ until the big reveal at his doorstep because he's been avoiding her the whole time.

either that, or they have Peter/Spidey keep running into some "stranger" girl while he's out and about, and they cross paths several times, and Peter doesn't think much about it. but then when he opens the door, he's surprised it's that girl!

 

[X Knight]

on that casting sheet, Zendaya is listed as Michelle. The asian girl is listed as Cindy. Laura is Liz.

At Comic Con, the director even referred to Zendaya's character as Michelle.

However, if Michelle is actually a fake name and Z is playing MJ, then why are we to believe anything else the director or that casting sheet says.

maybe Laura isn't really Liz. or Tony isn't Flash. or that asian girl isn't really Cindy.

who knows anymore.

 

[Dark Raven]

if they wanted to go for the "mystery" route, I'd rather they do what you described.

we ( and hence Peter ) never see MJ until the big reveal at his doorstep because he's been avoiding her the whole time.

either that, or they have Peter/Spidey keep running into some "stranger" girl while he's out and about, and they cross paths several times, and Peter doesn't think much about it. but then when he opens the door, he's surprised it's that girl!

Yeah, I would rather that we didn't even think MJ was in the movie at all, and we never heard anything about an actress being cast. I would rather that MJ was like a Kevin Costner moment in BvS where it had been kept completely under wraps, or any of these other Easter eggs which haven't been spoiled by trailers, TV spots or set pictures. I'd list a few, but some were surprises to me but may not have been to others who have followed every snippet of spoilery information.

 

[Chris B]

I'm willing to see where they go with this. I was initially skeptical of the idea when it was first suggested back in the spring, but the prospect of Zendaya playing MJ did grow on me after awhile before those early set pics seemed to disprove it.

Maybe it makes me a sheep or whatever, but I have enough faith in Marvel to get the character right at the end of the day. I'm not worried about those set pics since it seems obvious now that the character will get a make over in the film, regardless of whether or not that is the right approach to take.

I do wish/think they should've kept the red hair however. I don't get caught up on physical details like that, but in Mary Jane's case, I think that is an iconic trait. Much more so than being white. And I think red hair could look natural on someone like Zendaya as long as it was a darker shade like auburn. But maybe they'll show the character dying it as part of her make over.

 

[Mike Murdock]

maybe Laura isn't really Liz. or Tony isn't Flash. or that asian girl isn't really Cindy.

Maybe Laura is Trevor Slattery.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

This is something I've actually being pondering for awhile. As a 29 year old who's been a fan since 10, is the modern era of comics or comic movies passing me by? Are these adaptations just not meant for me anymore since when I was growing up, none of that vitriol about how a character should or should not look was happening? I mean I remember going to forums and seeing some people bicker about Dunst's casting 15-16 years ago, but today when people disagree about a casting choice, they just start calling each other racists or bigots and bring up white privilege, this isn't just for you, you don't like sharing your toys, equal representation this, forced diversity that, regressive left this, right wing bigotry that, Trump supporter this... I'm sick to death of hearing all of this garbage all the time because of fictional characters. Oh, Jeremy Renner called Black Widow a sl*t, he has to apologize! Am I just getting too old for this ****. lol Sorry for the rambling.

 

[X Knight]

Maybe Laura is Trevor Slattery.

it's all part of the Mandarin's master plan.

 

[TheVileOne]

Back in ye olden days, our heated arguments were about organic webshooters, Spider-Man not talking enough while he's in costume, and the redhead to heaven 2007 campaign by Dunst haters.

The Redhead to Heaven 2007 did happen. It was just Redhead to Heaven 2007 + 7.

 

[Kurenai]

on that casting sheet, Zendaya is listed as Michelle. The asian girl is listed as Cindy. Laura is Liz.

At Comic Con, the director even referred to Zendaya's character as Michelle.

However, if Michelle is actually a fake name and Z is playing MJ, then why are we to believe anything else the director or that casting sheet says.

maybe Laura isn't really Liz. or Tony isn't Flash. or that asian girl isn't really Cindy.

who knows anymore.

Her being referred to as Michele on the casting sheet means nothing, b/c the secret of Zendaya being MJ could have been something only Tom and Zendaya knew out of the cast. Which if the MJ reveal thing was supposed to be a secret then it's understandable why her name would be Michele on the casting sheet i.e to keep the secret contained.

Also some people didn't believe Jon b/c Marvel.com didn't confirm anything.

When the Black Panther cast was revealed at SDCC, Marvel wrote an article and pointed out what character each of the cast members are playing.

Despite Jon "revealing" the Spider-Man cast and who they're supposedly playing, Marvel.com just wrote an article on some of the actors that will appear in the movie, but not who they're playing even though cat is supposedly already out of the bag.

 

[Xrated48]

This is something I've actually being pondering for awhile. As a 29 year old who's been a fan since 10, is the modern era of comics or comic movies passing me by? Are these adaptations just not meant for me anymore since when I was growing up, none of that vitriol about how a character should or should not look was happening? I mean I remember going to forums and seeing some people bicker about Dunst's casting 15-16 years ago, but today when people disagree about a casting choice, they just start calling each other racists or bigots and bring up white privilege, this isn't just for you, you don't like sharing your toys, equal representation this, forced diversity that, regressive left this, right wing bigotry that, Trump supporter this... I'm sick to death of hearing all of this garbage all the time because of fictional characters. Oh, Jeremy Renner called Black Widow a sl*t, he has to apologize! Am I just getting too old for this ****. lol Sorry for the rambling.

I feel the same way about it too don't worry your not the only one.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Guys, don't make the mistake I made and look at the IMDB forums of Honecoming. I dunno if those people are trolling. But it's infested with proud Aryan brotherhood members.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

Dr. Cosmic is prescribing common sense here.

Moreover, it's also important to remember that Jon Watts has said from early on that this film was also going to draw influence from Ultimate Spider-Man and Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane.

Exactly, Ultimate MJ is quite different from 616MJ. I like what they're doing so far with the character, and am more excited than I ever was for Web's MJ.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

Guys, don't make the mistake I made and look at the IMDB forums of Honecoming. I dunno if those people are trolling. But it's infested with proud Aryan brotherhood members.

How people can hate such a beautiful girl is amazing to me just because of her race

 

[harryoscop]

How people can hate such a beautiful girl is amazing to me just because of her race

It truly amazes me.

 

[ernesth100]

Woahhhhh. This thread is.....um....wow. Nice to see how crazy Zendeya can drive you men. She'll be a perfect MJ .

 

[harryoscop]

Woahhhhh. This thread is.....um....wow. Nice to see how crazy Zendeya can drive you men. She'll be a perfect MJ .

IKR.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I could be wrong, but I believe they're trying to do the iconic MJ moment, where she shows up on Peter's doorstep and says "Face it Tiger, You've hit the Jackpot" and his jaw, and the audience's jaw, drops.

There's three really important aspects to this scene.

1) She is interested in Peter.
2) Peter is surprised that she is attractive.
3) The audience is invested in the MJ character

Now in the original comics this is done via a blind date and constant mention. This is not an angle that builds interest for a modern audience very well. We're much more interested in who we say than some rando who doesn't even bother to show up for a whole movie. So, the best way to accomplish this moment is for her to have a relationship with Peter in which she does not appear likely to give him that moment even as she builds towards it.

BUT, you say, MJ is all about being this model/actress/fashionista/alpha female, and Zendaya's character isn't that based on what we've seen, and I agree, but if we're going by all the leaks, including the fact that Zendaya looks like Zendaya, then that means that MJ is analogous to the Basket Case of the Breakfast Club, which actually DOES fit with her background of having an abusive family. That means she transforms, which means... this is the story of her becoming the MJ that you believe in.

Now, they COULD have just made her that from the beginning, but that means we aren't invested in the "Jackpot" moment, because it happens before our interest in MJ is built up. This means she's just random hot girl who's interest in a random geek guy for no apparent reason, or for some superficial reason. This prevents the audience from being invested in her. This makes her a poorly adapted character, since they would have failed to capture why people liked her in the original story, just given her the same form and hoped that people would like her for the same reasons, even though those reasons don't exist now.

Now... if you can come up with a better way for people who are not already MJ fans to become MJ fans, go for it, but until then, they're on track to do the best MJ I can think of.

The iconic mj moment is pointless if it's not iconic mj... I'd rather they not give that to michelle...

 

[SpideyJJ]

This is something I've actually being pondering for awhile. As a 29 year old who's been a fan since 10, is the modern era of comics or comic movies passing me by? Are these adaptations just not meant for me anymore since when I was growing up, none of that vitriol about how a character should or should not look was happening? I mean I remember going to forums and seeing some people bicker about Dunst's casting 15-16 years ago, but today when people disagree about a casting choice, they just start calling each other racists or bigots and bring up white privilege, this isn't just for you, you don't like sharing your toys, equal representation this, forced diversity that, regressive left this, right wing bigotry that, Trump supporter this... I'm sick to death of hearing all of this garbage all the time because of fictional characters. Oh, Jeremy Renner called Black Widow a sl*t, he has to apologize! Am I just getting too old for this ****. lol Sorry for the rambling.

Welcome to 2016, the year where everyone gets offended by everything smh. Fully agree with your post btw

 

[Xrated48]

Woahhhhh. This thread is.....um....wow. Nice to see how crazy Zendeya can drive you men. She'll be a perfect MJ .

I think she will be fine as MJ.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

This is something I've actually being pondering for awhile. As a 29 year old who's been a fan since 10, is the modern era of comics or comic movies passing me by? Are these adaptations just not meant for me anymore since when I was growing up, none of that vitriol about how a character should or should not look was happening? I mean I remember going to forums and seeing some people bicker about Dunst's casting 15-16 years ago, but today when people disagree about a casting choice, they just start calling each other racists or bigots and bring up white privilege, this isn't just for you, you don't like sharing your toys, equal representation this, forced diversity that, regressive left this, right wing bigotry that, Trump supporter this... I'm sick to death of hearing all of this garbage all the time because of fictional characters. Oh, Jeremy Renner called Black Widow a sl*t, he has to apologize! Am I just getting too old for this ****. lol Sorry for the rambling.

I feel the same way. The entire hype forums are full of youngsters who care not about source material and basically talk down to those who want it adapted. I personally don't get it.. I mean, if we haven't seen it correctly portrayed... do that first. Then switch it up. Don't keep reinventing a broken wheel... fix it. Make it perfect. Then reinvent it.

If anyone thinks the only untouchable person you can't alter is spider-man... I feel like you kind of have missed the point... Peter has the most recognizable and we'll fleshed out supporting cast out of all the Marvel universe... and probably only second to Clark Kent's in all of comics..

 

[spideyboy_1111]

....All I want is a good movie regardless of actor. To skip out on a movie simply because of the cast before you have any visual or physical proof it'll be bad such as script leaks or a trailer. It's....it's redundant.I'm sorry but thats like loving cake then, skipping out on a cake party because one of the cakes out of all the other flavors you love is lemon. :/

All I see at this party is lemon cake and pineapple upside down.. there's is no cheesecake, no birthday, no fudge... just tart and gross

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Marvel has a good track record, I see no reason not to give this film a chance unless you don't like Spider-Man or comic book movies in general.

Records get broken eventually...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't get why everyone here is acting like they've seen the movie and know exactly how MJ will be portrayed....

Also, I'm pretty bummed that with all this diversity, there's no sign of the Robertsons...

This is what really bothers me... he's got such a vast and diverse supporting cast to pull from... where they never really had to race swap to be diverse in the first place

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Sorry, but for me personally, I would feel less invested in the jackpot moment if we have to sit through her becoming MJ and going through a makeover.

As I've said in the previous thread, just because there is the basket case type from the Breakfast Club doesn't mean that Watts has to fit her into that and that we have to see her become something else.

I'd rather see her straight away as the girl who is way out of Peter's league and who might seem flightly or superficial to start with, but we only later discover she has more substance. I don't want to see that her MJ persona and appearance are purely a facade. I want her MJ persona and look to be her, but that there's simply more to her than being a pretty face.

And as far as hitting the jackpot, I see it as more of a super confident sense of assurance on her own part that someone like Peter might have even scored a date with someone so out of his league. That's how I interpreted the classic scene. Not that she was chasing after Peter but when he finally noticed her he realised he had a jackpot all along.

I don't want a "She's All That" type arc. I'd rather she were more like Cordelia Chase. I would like it even that she had agreed (perhaps even reluctantly) to go on a date with Peter or was paired up with him for the Homecoming dance, and he wasn't sure if he wanted her because she was so out of his league, but she said rather flippantly that he's hit the jackpot. And then, after spending time with him, she realises that HE has more to him than just being an awkward nerdy type and decides to give him more of her time because he makes her laugh. And as he spends time with her he sees that she's more than just superficial as he had originally judged her to be.

Bingo!!