The Amazing Spider-Man spider-man's mask during dialogue

[spider-neil]

I still think semi-opaque lenes are the way to go during conversation and switch them to full opaque lenses during action shots.

I don't think 'V' and 'rorschach' are good examples. with v the character who had to show emotion was the girl, it was established early on v was emotionless therefore you didn't need to see the nuances of his eyes and with rorschach the character moments were with the doctor (no mask) when he gets captured (pulls his mask off) and when Dr. m blows him away (rips his mask off), everytime rorschach had to show real emtion rather than monologue he was without his mask or took his mask off.

 

[david icke]

I don't think 'V' and 'rorschach' are good examples. with v the character who had to show emotion was the girl, it was established early on v was emotionless therefore you didn't need to see the nuances of his eyes and with rorschach the character moments were with the doctor (no mask) when he gets captured (pulls his mask off) and when Dr. m blows him away (rips his mask off), everytime rorschach had to show real emtion rather than monologue he was without his mask or took his mask off.

This isn't true. The scene when confronts the child killer , and when he is surrounded by the police, the actor's body language successfully conveyed his fury, frustration and agitation.
There are other scenes where is not simply 'mono-loguing' , but is having meaningful conversations with people, and he is successful at conveying attitude etc through body language and vocals.

I disagree about V being 'unemotional. In fact, the movie version is waaaay more emotional than the book's 'V', who was more distant and gave off a feeling of a monotone way of speaking.

 

[spider-neil]

This isn't true. The scene when confronts the child killer , and when he is surrounded by the police, the actor's body language successfully conveyed his fury, frustration and agitation.
There are other scenes where is not simply 'mono-loguing' , but is having meaningful conversations with people, and he is successful at conveying attitude etc through body language and vocals.

I disagree about V being 'unemotional. In fact, the movie version is waaaay more emotional than the book's 'V', who was more distant and gave off a feeling of a monotone way of speaking.

I think the two most powerful scenes in the spidey trilogy were;

1. spidey stops the train

2. spidey convinces doc ock to stop the machine

can someone seriously tell me those two scenes would have worked, would have had the same impact/depth if spidey were wearing a mask? c'mon, be serious.

 

[david icke]

I think the two most powerful scenes in the spidey trilogy were;

1. spidey stops the train

2. spidey convinces doc ock to stop the machine

can someone seriously tell me those two scenes would have worked, would have had the same impact/depth if spidey were wearing a mask? c'mon, be serious.

Yeah, I know, and I do agree that it is a problem for certain scenes. Raimi took care of those by way of mask ripping/removal, but there is only so many times you can do that b4 it becomes ridiculous, maybe, depend how it is handled in the movie.
But, for regular conversations etc, I think the mask will be fine on.
I agree it is a problem for the big emotional showdowns, but I really can't see a better solution than to rip the mask up a bit so you can see a bit of face. I don't like the idea of intrusive 'x-ray' sfx being used.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I think the two most powerful scenes in the spidey trilogy were;

1. spidey stops the train

2. spidey convinces doc ock to stop the machine

can someone seriously tell me those two scenes would have worked, would have had the same impact/depth if spidey were wearing a mask? c'mon, be serious.

I'll say this though. Spidey taking his mask off was also quite easily one of my least favorite moments of the entire series. Him standing there in front of all those people on the train just really, really, REALLY annoyed me.

Especially with them saying "we won't tell anyone." Yeah right. I'm sorry, but there would have been one ******* there who would have snapped a quick pic on his cellphone without anyone noticing.

That really bugged me. Ock stopping the machine is one situation, because he wasn't in front of a bunch of people, so that didn't bother me, but the train thing was just dumb.

And actually, with a talented enough actor, I do think you can convey a wide range of emotions with your face covered. I disagree with your assessment of V. I think Weaving did a marvelous job of getting across a very nuanced performance without the use of his face.

However, I've always wondered how a more expression-able mask would look in live action. Cartoons and comics often utilize the eyes in particular as movable to convey some of Spidey's mood. I've always been curious to see how that would look on screen. Though, I think it would be hard to pull off. I could see it happening with Batman's cowl easier then Spider-mans mask.

 

[The Joker]

Raimi doesn't seem to be a fan of masks in general. Harry's Goblin only wore that ridiculous paint baller's mask for the first 30 seconds of the first fight with Peter. Venom was consistently peeling back the symbiote to have Topher's face pop out to deliver all the dialogue.

Green Goblin's best scenes were the Norman ones, IMO. That plastic mask just didn't convey any kind of emotion. Dafoe has such an expressive face, too. I think he was the bitter lesson that put Raimi off using masks, except only when necessary.

Even in the final battle between Spidey and Goblin, half of the Spidey mask is gone, and we can see most of Peter's face.

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

Get a good actor. I felt Roarchach's lust for justice very much throughout Watchmen and his mask covered everything.

exactly...im sick of seeing spidey with his dang mask off (raimis version...)
if the actor is good...then he can pull off the emotion needed while maintaining the mask...

 

[weezerspider]

exactly...im sick of seeing spidey with his dang mask off (raimis version...)
if the actor is good...then he can pull off the emotion needed while maintaining the mask...

Yah seriously. The only reason Rorschach took off his mask during his death was to impact the audience and Nite Owl, because the Movie version Nite Owl had never seen his face and now he sees it as his partner dies. Besides, the greatest scene IMO, is when Rorschach puts all of his psycho-ness aside and tells Nite Owl he realizes he's tough to be around and how Nite Owl is a good friend. Rorschach did that with his mask on. Also, I'm not saying this as a kick at Tobey. If Tobey had to do this with Spiderman, he might have succeeded. I don't know, it never happened. I would like them to hire a talented actor and atleast try it, because I was very sick of Peter taking his mask off so much. (It was absolutely ridiculous in Spiderman 3.). Also, Spiderman 2, IMO, is the 2nd greatest comic film, but the whole "we wont tell anyone" part in the train scene is very cheesy and could have been avoided with, well, a mask.

 

[spider-neil]

you can get loads of information across with the eyes so make the eyes more visible. you lose far two much information when the face is completely covered. imagine the interrogation scene in TDK, imagine if the joker was wearing a full mask...

 

[weezerspider]

you can get loads of information across with the eyes so make the eyes more visible. you lose far two much information when the face is completely covered. imagine the interrogation scene in TDK, imagine if the joker was wearing a full mask...

With Heath's hand gestures and the way he moved his head around, and how he delivered his lines, he could have been wearing a Michael Meyers mask and I would have still loved every bit of it.

EDIT: They are actors. Give them a real challenge. Seriously, if whoever plays Spidey next can portray his emotions in full Spidey gear, I will be happy to put him on my "Marvel Oscars" list. It can be done. I honestly think the kid who played Kick-Ass could do it.

 

[spider-neil]

With Heath's hand gestures and the way he moved his head around, and how he delivered his lines, he could have been wearing a Michael Meyers mask and I would have still loved every bit of it.

EDIT: They are actors. Give them a real challenge. Seriously, if whoever plays Spidey next can portray his emotions in full Spidey gear, I will be happy to put him on my "Marvel Oscars" list. It can be done. I honestly think the kid who played Kick-Ass could do it.

the interrogation would hve sucked if you couldn't see joker's face.

you could see kickass' eyes and mouth. oh, its worth mentioning in the kickass trade the kickass mask in the comic has no mouth. the kick ass director cut a hole in the mask so the mouth was visible, why do you think he did that?

 

[Infinity9999x]

Raimi doesn't seem to be a fan of masks in general. Harry's Goblin only wore that ridiculous paint baller's mask for the first 30 seconds of the first fight with Peter. Venom was consistently peeling back the symbiote to have Topher's face pop out to deliver all the dialogue.

Green Goblin's best scenes were the Norman ones, IMO. That plastic mask just didn't convey any kind of emotion. Dafoe has such an expressive face, too. I think he was the bitter lesson that put Raimi off using masks, except only when necessary.

Even in the final battle between Spidey and Goblin, half of the Spidey mask is gone, and we can see most of Peter's face.

Giving Dafoe a non-moveable mask was such a foolish decision. And the funny thing is, despite Raimi's hate of masks in regards to Spidey, he gave Dafoe a non-moveable mask when it was a character that didn't call for it!

But I don't mind Spidey's mask in tatters in the Goblin fight. That was a situation where it was only the two of them, they both already knew who the other was, and it was a very dramatic scene. In that instance, I didn't mind it at all. And it really gave it a nice gritty feel seeing Pete's face through the torn mask.

Taking the mask off on the train....not so much.

And again, as others have said. A good actor can get a lot across with his voice and body movements. They'll just have to work at it, but it can be done. And in the right situations, have the torn mask/no mask, but keep it limited.

It's one problem I have with USM and the Raimi films both. KEEP THE DAMN MASK ON!!

 

[weezerspider]

the interrogation would hve sucked if you couldn't see joker's face.

you could see kickass' eyes and mouth. oh, its worth mentioning in the kickass trade the kickass mask in the comic has no mouth. the kick ass director cut a hole in the mask so the mouth was visible, why do you think he did that?

because they were on an extremely low budget and probably didn't have the best mics and it sounds better then the muffled voice under a mask.

 

[spider-neil]

because they were on an extremely low budget and probably didn't have the best mics and it sounds better then the muffled voice under a mask.

 

[weezerspider]

what? if they had a bigger budget, they'd get better mics and therefor his voice wouldn't have been so muffled. Nothing about unable to show emotions in there.... I wouldn't mind if they made his eyes get bigger, smaller like in the comics, but I do not want his mask off the whole time. Seriously, Raimi's Spiderman did not even have to wear a mask in 2 or 3....did he even wear one in those films?

 

[spider-neil]

what? if they had a bigger budget, they'd get better mics and therefor his voice wouldn't have been so muffled. Nothing about unable to show emotions in there.... I wouldn't mind if they made his eyes get bigger, smaller like in the comics, but I do not want his mask off the whole time. Seriously, Raimi's Spiderman did not even have to wear a mask in 2 or 3....did he even wear one in those films?

the director cut a hole in the mask so the audience could see kickass' mouth - the end.

 

[Invader34]

What would you guys think of them using the CGI technology that they used for Davy Jones in the Pirates movies. During close up scenes with Peter having conversation, or in action scenes like the train scene in SM2 where emotion needs to be shown, they could have the actor in full suit without the mask and his face covered with markers like Bill Nighy. They could then add the mask with CGI, but with it having captured all the actors facial expressions and emotion. What do you guys think? I thought it worked quite well in Pirates of the Caribbean.

 

[Ultra-Spidey]

really? who cares? one of the most iconic characters in all of movie cinema (Darth Vader) wore a full mask/helmet for 3 movies and that turned out fine. granted, Spidey and Vader are 2 characters that are on 2 completely different spectrums, really though, spidey shouldn't have THAT much dialog as Spidey. we want to see him fighting/fliping/swinging not talking. and i already know, Spidey quips while fighting, but really, do we need a close up shot of his face while he's delivering his wisecracks? if anything, jus hav his mask move a lil jus to show that his mouth is actually moving underneath there. I always found it kinda odd that aspect was very inconsistant (mouth portion of the mask moving while talking) in the movies. Sometimes it moved, most of the time it didn't o_0

 

[weezerspider]

really? who cares? one of the most iconic characters in all of movie cinema (Darth Vader) wore a full mask/helmet for 3 movies and that turned out fine. granted, Spidey and Vader are 2 characters that are on 2 completely different spectrums, really though, spidey shouldn't have THAT much dialog as Spidey. we want to see him fighting/fliping/swinging not talking. and i already know, Spidey quips while fighting, but really, do we need a close up shot of his face while he's delivering his wisecracks? if anything, jus hav his mask move a lil jus to show that his mouth is actually moving underneath there. I always found it kinda odd that aspect was very inconsistant (mouth portion of the mask moving while talking) in the movies. Sometimes it moved, most of the time it didn't o_0

Thank You

 

[weezerspider]

the director cut a hole in the mask so the audience could see kickass' mouth - the end.

Get me a quote of the director saying that is the exact reason. Also even if Vaughn did do it for that reason, that doesn't make it the end-all right decision for every character. Mathew Vaughn isn't God.

 

[spider-neil]

darth vader sis a bad example, he was the villian of the movie. the actors that had to show the range of emotion and express their feelings were leia, han and luke.

if anyone read 'behind the mask of spider-man; secrets of the movie' (the concept book of spider-man) did you see the picture of the translucent mask they were going to go with at first? can someone post a picture of it?

if they crack the problem of spidey showing a greater range of emoition with a mask then you will see spidey on screen more rather than just set pieces.

 

[david icke]

Get me a quote of the director saying that is the exact reason. Also even if Vaughn did do it for that reason, that doesn't make it the end-all right decision for every character. Mathew Vaughn isn't God.

Dude, I thought you were kidding around with that microphone bit, and actually thought you were being very witty, but c'mon, lol, why don't *you* find us a quote where the director said that?
It may not have had as much of a budget as most sh tentpoles, but it was an expensive movie.
not filmed with a video camera round someone's house.
and as a matter of fact, I have read an interview with the makers saying they wanted to see more expression from the actor, so cut a mouth hole.
I can't recall where, but if I happen to come across one, I'll post it up, even though I shouldn't really have to, it's kind of like posting a link to prove what toilet-paper is for.

 

[Rodrigo90]

I may be delving into Nolan style,but wouldn't it look more realistic and expressive if he had a mask like this?

Where you can faintly see his eyes?

 

[david icke]

Where you can faintly see his eyes?

That's really faint though, I had to look twice to see his eyes through that. It wouldn't make any difference I think, the Goblin had his eyes shown completely in a lot of scenes, you could even see his mouth somewhat, and all people complain about is how you couldn't see his expressions.

It is a humdinger of a problem for sure, I think Raimi tackled it in the best way possible, ripped on the mask and smashed eye pieces, and the odd scene in civvies.

 

[Rodrigo90]

You do have to focus,but thats ok IMO. Dramatic scenes and Spider-Sense,the camera could deliberately focus on his eyes,and you see his expression. It wouldn't look right if you saw his eyes completely in other scenes though. Just a small enough window for us to see his expressions,etc.