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Discussion in 'The Comics' started by ALP, Jul 12, 2012.
There, I said it.
yeah, but his writing is part of the foundation that became the Marvel Comics Group juggernaut...
Sure it is to a 21st century brain, but since his writings were done in the 1960's,when it was very new and hip, you have to accept it for what it helped to establish,ie-THE MARVEL UNIVERSE!
Stan Lee is not the greatest writer but he is the greatest creator.
You're entitled to your opinion, but you didn't say why. If you're going to start a thread about something you don't like, it would be great if you explained why you feel that way.
I don't think he is very good at all at writing dialogue or even complex characterizations. But what he is really good at is creating great concepts and plays with expectations and archetypes in his chosen genre. That's how he invented (along with Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, John Romita, etc.) an entire universe of characters that are still popular 50 years later. And while I think people have made Peter Parker more interesting since Lee left, nobody has made his adventures as memorable or entertaining.
Food for thought.
Lol, I thought I'd let you guys go through the details.
He's a brilliant ideas man. Probably the greatest ever. But the dialogue and storytelling doesn't hold up very well. I read, I believe his entire run on Spidey about two years ago. I didn't feel like there was much detail in his writing- just very broad. Enough to lay down an incredible foundation but realizing much better architects were necessary to craft a kingdom.
Pretty much what DACrowe just said.
Since i have the trade paperbacks of classic Marvel comics, i think the writing is kind of witty and funny looking back on it.
His Spider-Man and Fantastic Four are good, I do agree about cringeworthy, there are moments with such effect, but not all of his work on this character, he -as you said- had great ideas, I think what he did is interesting and he had fun writing it, it's very dated though
You should read his work on every other character besides the FF and Spidey, if you did you see how he repeats himself too much, and his work is writing the same stereotypes with different skins and name
He might be the greatest co-creator for all the characters he worked on building with Kirby, Ditko, and other artists, I'll give him props for that, but he's not the greatest writer, not when you have:
That great guy from DC his name escaped me for some reason, Geoff Jones
Bendis (on DareDevil and Ultimate Spider-Man, forget his work on team books): His dialogue has cringeworthy moments as well, but in general he writes better than Lee, and I think he did a pretty great job
Ugh, let's not get into comparisons especially if you're going to throw out a name like Bendis out there.
I think we can all agree that his writing was good in a completely different era, one that the majority of posters here are not from.
Stan Lee was a great writer and creator. The thing was, he was writing most of the Marvel Universe titles back in the day. Hulk, Spidey, X-Men, Avengers, FF...ALL OF THEM.
If you read about how he wrote the book, he actually gave the plot and the highlights to the artist, the artist then drew the book, and Stan would go back and add the words. It's the way Stan was able to do so much in so little time back them. As for Spidey, I don't get the hate...really, as DACrowe said, NO ONE since him has captured Spidey's adventures as well as he did. 1-38 is still comsidered the best Spidey run by most.
Now, I clicked onto this thread simply because I thought you were talking about anything he wrote after the "I Remember Gwen" story he did in the back-up of ASM#365....which would include Ravage 2099 until present. THAT is cringeworthy!
I'm 19, and I've read and re-read Stan's run on Spider-Man a couple times since I was 13. I've always thought his writing is witty and down-to-earth somehow. Some of his plots are extremely cheesy, but Spidey started in the early 60's, so it's understandable.
Most of the time I'm wanting to skim over the parts with Spider-Man and the villains to get to Peter Parker's social life, because I love how he writes it. I just wish he didn't think his readers would get bored with the comic if he spent more than two pages at a time on Peter Parker. He seems to rush through those moments to get back to the action-he makes comments in the narration about it all the time.
So you follow up an extremely negative exaggeration with overly positive hyperbole?
Now THAT's cringeworthy.
I think Lee's writing has a real driving energy of "HUZZAH!" throughout, which is very strenuous to read.
His writing is a bit cringeworthy but his work on the Fantastic Four and Spider-man are some of my favourite works on comics, i don't know about Stan Lee and Ditko's work in Spider-Man, but in most Stan Lee and Kirby collaborations it was Jack Kirby who did most of the work, he would basically draw the comic and then Stan Lee would come up with the dialogues if i remember well.
Yeah Stan Lee's writing is old school and date but we wouldn't be on this forum without it.
Stan Lee's dialog has not aged nearly as well as he has, but his imagination, characterization of figures, creativity and enthusiasm remain unmatched. The very concept of the flawed hero is owed to Stan Lee. He made these titanic figures a bit more relatable. They weren't wealthy men hiding away in remote headquarters. They aren't loved by all. They aren't always morally righteous. This is something that shows through Stan's writing, regardless of any issue with the word choice. His ideas shine brightly through it all.
You have to read his work from the mindset of someone from the 60s. He created a universe and planted the seeds, so that these characters and stories would one day evolve into something much greater. Its like listening to classical music and complaining that it has no singing, or watching a silent film and judging it poorly because it has no sound. They all started something revolutionary that would grow into something MARVELOUS.
and as Stan himself would say after all that...
But from what i heard Jack Kirby did most of the hard work and had most of the creative ideas, Stan did create Spider-Man but from what it seems it was Jack Kirby who came up with most of the ideas of most of the characters, even Alan Moore said this.
Stan's work on the Spider-Man newspaper strip is pretty good in modern times.
Steve Ditko, not Kirby. Also, Stan has pretty much admitted from the beginning that Ditko was heavily involved in the plot, even giving him credit in the actual issues.
As for Stan Lee's writing being cringe worthy, I think its a mostly unfair criticism, when you consider the guy was like 40 in the 60s. Anyway, its more about his IDEAS than anything else.
I wasn't talking about Spider-Man's stories, i was mostly talking about Fantastic Four and The Avengers, in those stories Kirby basically drew the story and then Stan Lee would write the dialogues.
Honestly, Stan was not alone with that style of writing. One need only visit superdickery.com to understand how shabby dialog was even in the 80s, let alone the 1960s back when Stan got his proper start.
That is cringeworthy, albeit humorous.