Discussion in 'Misc. Films' started by Thread Manager, May 30, 2017.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]517171[/split]
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]514889[/split]
I think there was a bit of competition between CBS and Paramount, who share the rights. Which is why there never was a big 50th anniversary promotion.
I don't know many people who are willing to pay to watch Discovery. They'll probably catch it for free on bootlegs if they watch it at all.
It's being released on Netflix overseas, so it's got that going for it.
The thing that sucks is that Beyond definitely recaptured the magic from the first film its just the muted response to STID and the crappy marketing caused the BO decline.
I remember a few people not even realizing the film was coming out during its opening weekend.
STID didn't really have a muted response.
It's the highest grossing of the reboot series worldwide, got better critic scores than Beyond and on IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes STID got a higher audience score
I think what hurt Beyond was they didn't market it enough. Now I thought people were being babies about the Sabotage trailer but I didnt see a lot of marketing material to STB. I think also 2016 was such a weird year box office wise.
I think the other thing that people were talking about before was the huge missed opportunity. THey never really capitalized on the success and critical acclaim of 09. It's actually kinda crazy 09 didn't even crack 400 mill worldwide
2009 was right before the international markets blew-up.
It made 257 million domestic which was seen as a huge success for what was pretty much a dead movie franchise at that point.
The sequel could have been poised to do even better but the 4 year wait killed some of that momentum and STID benefited from a strong international market as its domestic total dipped.
I'm gonna be completely honest, I kind of hope there's no Star Trek 4. I watched Beyond and I thought it was the best of the three by far, but several months later I can't remember much of anything about the movie aside from the motorcycle chase and destroying the fleet with the rock song. I only remember these scenes because, quite frankly, I was sort of laughing internally at them.
One of my main gripes about these reboot films is that they try so hard to distance themselves from classic Star Trek, but fail to establish their own identity. Do any locations, ships, or sets really leave an impact on anyone? Many people say that the 60s Star Trek show is corny, but at least I can tell the transporter room apart from the bridge, I can't say the same for this series, everything looks like generic 2000s sci-fi design work.
I also think rebooting the series was a bad move. There were decades of strong lore to build on, and let's face it: no one can replace the original cast. Don't get me wrong, the actors tried and were as good as could be expected, but the original cast was just too iconic (although I will say I actually bought the new Doctor McCoy and Scotty), and I say that as someone who didn't even grow up in the 60s.
I feel like the best move would be to give up the reboot series and continue the original timeline, there have to be an infinite amount of ideas they could do with that. If they have to continue in this reboot universe, I would like to see a Doctor McCoy stand alone movie, I could get behind that.
I didn't really care for blowing up the enemy fleet with the rock song either and thought that was kind of goofy.
My only other major problem with the movie is that Lin did too much of that quick cutting shaky cam garbage during the action.
I enjoyed Beyond in terms of the characters and so on, but I felt the story premise - which meant they were mostly planet-based - is what let it down. That was clearly evident in the marketing for the film and just like Star Trek : Insurrection in 1998, it made it look more like a glorified TV episode than a movie experience. A very shiny, very expensive CGi'd TV episode but nonetheless, lacking that scope that the movies offered in their 2hr and massive budget framework.
Star Trek has always been about lots of things, but a voyage into the unknown areas of space is what made it compelling. When the majority of a movie is land-based on an Earth-like planet, it loses some of that appeal. I want to see more of that journey into uncharted areas of space.
First Contact admittedly spent much of its running time on Earth, but I felt there were enough other elements in there - the Borg, the time travel, the initial Fleet battle, the subsequent battles aboard the Enterprise in orbit - to distract from that.
The third one was pretty good, but lacked the frenetic energy the first two had (Justin Lin is no J.J. Abrams), which to me are two of the most memorable and fun blockbusters in recent times.
You're right. Justin Lin is no J.J. Abrams. Justin Lin makes films that make sense and don't disguise their emptiness and lack of logic through frantic pacing and mystery box b.s.
The rock song thing felt too much like Guardians of the Galaxy. It would have been hilarious in that movie series, but I thought it just felt out of place in Star Trek, especially A Stat Trek movie that was trying to be pretty straightforward and serious.
Fair enough, although I must say I thought Beyond was still way too frantic and fast-paced for my taste.
Lol, I can't stand the whole mystery box thing. I do think Beyond had some interesting messages and themes in it.
This is being added to Amazon Prime in 3 weeks.
If they doake a 4th film I hope they abandon their plans for time travel and Chris Hemsworth. I really feel like the whole arc of Kirk living up to his father is done and they can move on.
I liked Beyond a lot and it's one of those movies vies that grows on you the more you watch. But I definitely think Abrams was missed for the 3rd movie. His movies have a grandeur that Beyond just seemed to lack.
But yeah, the marketing was awful for Beyond as well.
i didnt care for beyond and it didnt do well so i wouldnt mind if they recasted the next generation crew and start fresh
Beyond was my favorite of the bunch, because it felt like a big budget episode of the old show to me, and I loved that vibe. The downside of that, however, is that it feels less like an "event" film than the first two. I do hope they make a 4th one.
I liked Beyond. Not as much as the first two but it was solid and rewatchable even if Lin wasn't the greatest directing choice for it. I don't know how I feel about Star Trek 4 now that Yelchin is no longer with us. The thought of it just makes me sad.
I do think if anything hurt Beyond, it was that first trailer. It's bad when one of your writers (Pegg) has to come out and say "Hey, that's not what this movie is like at all."
I really liked it, as well. But yep. I agree on all you've said.
The 'mystery box' only applies if you were following the production and trying to find out who Benedict Cumberbatch was going to play. I didn't pay attention to all that stuff and just waited for the movie to come out, and wasn't disappointed.
Still ******** about Abrams not saying he was Khan prior to the release? Why should he? Why not just find out in theaters. Man, people feel really entitled these days....
It was stupid of a marketing point to not say it was Khan
But even stupider to actively deny it was Khan and then repeat beats from Wrath of Khan
And this somehow impacts the quality of the movie negatively?
He just wanted people to find out in theaters. Nothing wrong with that, at all.
I really don't get why people NEED TO KNOW? They'll find out about it in theaters, anyway. If you liked Abrams' first Star Trek movie and want to see the sequel how does knowing if he's Khan make or break it?
I never said it make or breaks it.
From a marketing standpoint, if you have a big-ish villain like Khan in it, it does help to say it's Khan. And the denying it was just trying too hard. I think even Abrams said it was a mistake
From a filmmaking standpoint I do think it's stupid just to follow the beats even some of the dialogue from a "better" film.
It was definitely a mistake by not revealing Cumberbatch was Khan. Retroactively looking back, the 2009 first film didn't make enough to justify the secret. Paramount should have vetoed Abrams's choice to do so.
Then again, Paramount also botched the 50th anniversary of the franchise. I mean, damn. An anniversary is the easiest marketing campaign ever and they botched it. But as long as they have Transformers, I guess they feel they're good to do whatever.