Star Trek: Discovery - Part 1

Discussion in 'Misc. TV Series' started by Thread Manager, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    Tilly really doesn't seem like a first officer. She comes across as too green and too unsure of herself. She certainly doesn't have a commanding presence.

    As usual, everything depends on Burnham. It's getting rather tiring.
     
  2. KaijuDude1992 Registered

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    Tilly becoming a first officer definitely felt unearned and predictable as hell, but what else do you expect from this show at this point? Outside of Burnham she's like the only other character that they really focus on which sucks, because I never cared for her that much, but I have pretty much accepted it now.

    Outside of that though I actually kind of liked this episode at least the the scenes with the Romulans and that tribute/reference to Nimoy's Spock from Next Generation was pretty touching too IMO.
     
  3. Primal Slayer Let the Siren scream

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    They just really love to throw around "Spocks sister" to give Burnham that extra amount of importance. An aspect I wish they just never really introduced, especially since all of Spocks history on Star Trek she is never mentioned and might as well be a secret, except in Discovery.
     
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  4. chamber-music Infinity Ammo

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    There sure was a lot of crying in this recent episode.
     
  5. Batmannerism Super-unknown

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    I don't often quote myself , but in this case here's a post from last week....


    I believe the expression is " called it!"

    Sorry, that's very smug of me - maybe it shows that Discovery is very predictable and follows some tropes pretty closely. In this episode it was back to the old " Michael Burnham, saviour of the universe"

    I actually like Burnham as a character, but the story around her is just ridiculously convenient.

    So far she's the daughter of the inventor of time travel, defeated the Klingon empire, saved the galaxy from an AI gone wrong and peppered her own life with several predestination paradoxes, and now she's the only person who can smooth things over with the romu-vulcans because Spock is her brother from another mother - and her own mother has become a Vulcan nun.

    I'm not sure what the trope is called where you're always the right person in the right place at the right time - and not just a right person but the only right person !

    It's not even Mary Sue, because it's not about Burnham's talents, more about that all the major plot points of vast cosmic events happen to revolve around her and her family - and only she can fix nearly every problem.

    Maybe she'll be the subject of an entirely new trope.

    Also, I don't really care about her internal struggles about staying or leaving Starfleet, can we just get on with it please?

    I guess it's a sign of the times....Kirk visits Vulcan in 1968 and they resolve a dispute with a deathmatch- Burnham visits Vulcan in 2020 and the dispute is resolved in a wordy debate about logic and her life choices. I kind of miss the deathmatch!


    Im genuinely pleased for Tilly's promotion, because maybe someone else will get to shine.

    You were saying ?

    Don't feel bad, there were a bunch of people betting on" It will be Lieutenant Blondie/Nilsson/Whoever" .

    The next question is how long before Tilly becomes Captain ?

    Despite my problems with this episode it was still amazing seeing the TNG Spock footage.

    Live long and prosper people !
     
    #1305 Batmannerism, Nov 27, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2020
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  6. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    To add to Burnham's accomplishments, she will also be revealed to be a lost prophet of Bajor who is the true Emissary, the great grandmother of Guinan, the spirit guide of Chakotay and the breeder of Captain Archer's dog.
     
  7. RockSP MYTH SMITH ˆž∞!!!

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    ACTING first officer. I mean if it was okay for Wesley to become an acting ensign...
     
  8. Primal Slayer Let the Siren scream

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    You act as if Wesley was liked. Even acting 1st Officer is a stretch given that there are people on the ship literally next in line for any type of promotion be it temporary or not
     
  9. Flash525 The Scarlet Messenger

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    But she could've shined in so many other ways. I get why she's been promoted, because as it's been stated, there's not really any other character that would fit the role, but that's not to say Tilly is either. Her promotion is the second big disappointment for Season 3 as far as I'm concerned. The first was the Trill episode.

    This would have been an otherwise perfect opportunity to introduce a new character from within Starfleet to act as both Saru's first, and a liaison between old and new.

    I hold my hands up, obviously. Doesn't mean I've got to like the decision though. I don't. :p

    I hope never. Every show to date (including the first two seasons of Discovery) have had a human captain. It's nice to have the change in this instance. If Saru does move on or whatever, I hope there's another alien to take his place.

    Two very different things. An ensign has a lot less pull than a first officer. Tilly is in a command position.

    Wesley never was, and nor should either of them be. Tilly has a lot to still learn, and I think she's too erratic and emotional to adapt to the role. Her character has come a long way since her introduction, but she's certainly not there yet.

    Edit: Cardassians; there's some talk on Instagram that there was a couple in this episode, one of which was in Starfleet uniform. I saw none. Can anyone verify?
     
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  10. Teelie Jokerface (P)

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    I like Tilly, but yeah, her getting promoted to acting first officer is a stretch. There are at least a half dozen other characters who have a higher rank and the experience to be promoted over her. But all of that was addressed in the episode too, even if it was a little weak. Everyone else was struggling more with being thrust a thousand years into the future? No ****, but most of them are probably better equipped to be first officer.

    And once again, Burnham is the Mary Sue. She's Spock's sister, which was hammered in repeatedly and then they pull the stunt where she drops her request and still gets the information anyways. And her mother is now part of that Romulan group who handle lost causes convienently enough.

    At this point I am waiting for Q to show up, act all smug then admit he can't actually reverse what happened in the Burn.

    It wasn't actually that bad an episode but there was plenty of ways to do this better. Tilly's promotion, Burnham's pull with the Vulcans and whatever they are doing with Booker were all fairly predictable.
     
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  11. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    There's no need for Q to show up, because it will eventually be revealed that Burnham is part Q. :o
     
  12. Teelie Jokerface (P)

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    That would explain a lot about Burnham's luck.
     
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  13. RockSP MYTH SMITH ˆž∞!!!

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    None of the dislike I've ever heard and/or read was based on him being an acting ensign lol
     
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  14. Flash525 The Scarlet Messenger

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    I disliked Wesley because he was an acting ensign. :cool:;)
     
  15. Monsieur Xavier Guildsman

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    To think the show was one of the reasons I subbed to Netflix instead of torrenting like a cheap **ck.
    Luckily I can watch almost anything SF related with good VFX.
    Too much crying and talk in whispers.
    Random thought : maybe in the Pike's show Spock will be referred to as Burnham's brother :)
     
  16. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    They should just rename the 3rd Trek film "Star Trek III: The Search For Burnham's Brother". :o

    Or for a tongue twister, have that 3rd season TOS episode called "Burnham's Brother's Brain."
     
  17. Batmannerism Super-unknown

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    With Burnham's time travel adventures already,
    I wonder if it will be revealed that Burnham also:

    Was the real reason the Khitomer accords were signed.

    Came up with the idea of using a chemical bazooka to defeat the Gorn, and somehow passed it on to Kirk.

    Was the real reason that Vulcans visited Earth, for first contact. The Alfre Woodard character was an older Burnham who had travelled back in time to ensure 1st contact happened, and gave the idea of warp drive to Cochrane in the first place.

    Developed the Genesis device.

    Invented transparent aluminium.

    I could probably think of a few more.

    What annoys me isn't so much that she's a super hero who does all that kind of Galaxy saving stuff, rather that the story is written in such a way that she's the ONLY person who can do that Galaxy saving stuff. Book mentions her messiah complex, well it's not a mental condition if you actually are the messiah, and that's what Burnham almost is.

    Kirk, Picard, Janeway, Sisko and all their supporting cast did amazing stuff too but they accomplished those incredible feats by being good at their jobs, not because of an absurd number of coincidental relationships and being in the right place at the right time.

    I just realized. If Discovery was Die Hard, Burnham is John McClane. The first time he saves the day, it's awesome. The second time is cool, the third time, well done. But after that it gets a bit ridiculous- even the DH writers are clever enough to make it seem like he could fail, and can't do everything himself.

    Sorry, this aspect of Discovery just gets worse and worse as the show goes on.

    Again, I agree there was too much crying in this episode and a deathmatch would have livened things up. Where's T'Pau when you need her ?
     
  18. Flash525 The Scarlet Messenger

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    This Burnham hate is getting a tad tiresome, don't we think?

    I'm sorry, but this isn't the Trek of old. Discovery was Burnham's story, and the things she's been involved with in this episode made logical sense.
     
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  19. Flash525 The Scarlet Messenger

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    To elaborate on my previous post and to put things into context. Kirk and the Enterprise were always in the right place at the right time, and conveniently managed to solve any problem they came across.

    Picard and the Enterprise repeated that notion. Picard and his crew were even instrumental in helping stabilise the Klingon Empire, keeping peace with the Romulans and even defeating the Borg, not once, but twice.

    Sisko was the savour of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant. If it wasn't for him and his magical connection to the prophets, the Dominion would've ran the show for a couple of centuries.

    Janeway and her crew managed to travel across two quadrants, defeating the Borg, the Undine (species 8472), the Krenim, Kazon, escaping the Voth and return home with a good portion of the crew alive, and the ship in tact and even upgraded with technology from the future.

    Archer had a part to play in the temporal Cold War, conveniently managed to talk the Xindi down, traveled the expanse without dying and was instrumental in forging the Federation.

    And you guys are peeved with Burnham? o_O
     
  20. Batmannerism Super-unknown

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    What you're describing is an essential convention of serialized science fiction storytelling. That a person or particular group has an absurd impact on universal events. Without this convention Dr Who would simply not work, neither would Star Wars or Lord of the Rings.

    That Burnham is the protagonist, and the stories relate to her exploits is not my issue.

    Nor is it the Burnham character - because as a person she's quite likeable, a lot more likeable than Janeway and a lot less sanctimonious. I like that Burnham doesn't expect anything from anyone. She has her inner drives but she doesn't drag anyone else along on her crusades unwillingly.

    Her characterization is one of the show's saving graces.

    Let's go back to the convention I mentioned above for a moment. It is a fragile thing, and if it isn't established carefully, it falls apart. I mean, Tolkien takes so much care in establishing that Frodo is probably the only person who can carry the one ring, that we believe it- part of Tolkien's genius is having Frodo fail a lot and have to be saved by other characters.
    Luke Skywalker is similar in this regard.

    As for previous Treks, as I mentioned before, the characters succeed at astonishing feats and we accept it because the writers do a good job of setting it up. I never got the sense with Janeway that she could have got them home single handed, or that she was the only person who could have got them home. Kirk always needed his team, especially in the movies. Sisko may have been a demigod, but he had many disastrous failures and while it may have been his destiny to save Bajor, the writers were skillful enough to create a sense of suspense and mystery around how he could do it, and whether he was actually capable of doing it
    - that feat also ultimately cost him his mortal existence and everything he cared about.
    The defeat of the Dominion was almost equally reliant on the insurgency on Cardassia and a bunch of other events leading up to it.

    As for Enterprise...ummm, I never liked that show, which is saying a lot because I'll watch anything with hot Vulcans in it.

    The Discovery writers don't take as much care and we get the constant feeling that Michael will step in and save the day. They started well, with her being a mutineer, that was a nice twist - but then she becomes not just highly competent but also can solve every problem.

    The Vulcan debate thing turning on her being honest about her feelings re Starfleet didn't really work for me. I can see the logic though of the Vulcans revering a sister of Spock......although that information was totally suppressed at the end of season 2, supposedly never to be mentioned again. Did Sarek leave records of her existence before he died ? Did Picard make a note about her, after his mind melds with Spock and Sarek ? See, retconning takes a lot of thought if it's going to be done well.

    Still, if we get past that hurdle it still makes sense for the Vulcans to want to see her. But her mother showing up in such a ridiculous way - I mean that could have been such a dramatic event and a great story point rather than.....she just turned up in the future and went to Vulcan to become a nun.

    See, my beef isn't with the characters as much as the story itself.

    Probably the best character moment this season was when Georgiou, who constantly acts as if she knows everything and can do anything, gets knocked down a peg by a quietly spoken, unassuming and almost friendly David Cronenberg. That was well done - and didn't involve crying.

    I am looking forward to Tilly's command arc, which is likely to have a bunch of failures ( I hope) before she really saves the day.
     
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  21. Batmannerism Super-unknown

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    In a DC superhero context, it feels like Burnham's parents were murdered by a mugger in an alley, on Krypton, just before it exploded and she was the last survivor, who escaped in a rocket and landed on Themyscira, and was raised as an amazon warrior, who was then chosen by the Guardians to become a Green Lantern and also selected to wear the helmet of Nabu, and .......

    The fact that she's smart, kind, brave and has got a good heart gets a bit lost in all of that.
     
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  22. Dark Raven The Gal from Themyscira

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    You forgot that her family were also murdered at the circus (on Krypton) and that she has access to the speed force and that her cousin has gone missing so she's donned a red wig while he's gone.
     
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  23. Gaultheria Registered

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    And now she's travelled 1,000 years into the future to join the Legion of Super-Heroes.
     
  24. Gaultheria Registered

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    I liked Burnham in episode 3x01. That surprised me, because I hadn't much cared for the character in the first two seasons. Now she's back to getting on my nerves. I think she's good as an action hero, but her status on the ship keeps her in the role of "heart". She's like Buffy and Xander combined, and that just doesn't work (well, it did, once, for them, but there were serious consequences).
     
  25. Batmannerism Super-unknown

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    Nice ! :applaud:applaud:applaud
     
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