Picard Star Trek: Picard - General Discussion Thread

[Gaultheria]

Re: 1x09, and Re: this speculation:

Spoiler

Yeah, looks like...

Spoiler

...looks like Altan Inigo Soong — "A. I. Soong" — could be Lore, stolen and reassembled by Maddox. Before Maddox went rogue, he would've had access to the parts, just like Agnes got to study B-4.

 

[Dark Raven]

The android community on Soji's planet looked like they could've been at home in a classic Trek episode or early Next Generation. It was a welcome sight.

I don't know why we've never heard of this Soong offspring before. None of the Soong family seem really all that good. They're more like Lore than Data.

Was hoping to see Seven more. Hopefully she'll play more next week.

 

[RockSP]

I don't know why we've never heard of this Soong offspring before. None of the Soong family seem really all that good. They're more like Lore than Data.

I haven't watched most of Voyager or Enterprise...did Soong family members show up on those series? Because otherwise the only other one we've ever met is Noonien.

 

[Dark Raven]

I haven't watched most of Voyager or Enterprise...did Soong family members show up on those series? Because otherwise the only other one we've ever met is Noonien.

He showed up in Enterprise as an ancestor of Noonien named Arik Soong. He was a villain involved in genetic engineering, but at the end decided he might try his hand at cybernetics.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

 

[Dr.]

Episode title and trivia time :

“Et en Arcadia ego” is usually translated as “and/even in Arcadia I…” or “I (too) in Arcadia.” As a phrase, it’s arguably incomplete - or at least enigmatic. But Et en Arcadia ego often refers to a famous painting (aka The Arcadian Shepherds) by Nicholas Poussin. In the painting, shepherds find a tomb inscribed with this Latin phrase. And the meaning becomes more obvious: even in a utopia (Arcadia), Death (“I” or “ego”) announces its presence.

Perhaps the utopia is Coppelius. Or, more generally, it could be the “utopian” future of Star Trek. Then there’s the question of who death is coming for…

 

[Dark Raven]

I read one theory in an article online that maybe Picard would have his consciousness transferred into that android body and that is what would save him from the terminal brain condition.

Star Trek: Picard Theory About Synths Could Make For A Controversial Season 1 Ending

I don't think that would go down well having Picard becoming an android/ synthetic.

 

[Pink Ranger]

The android community on Soji's planet looked like they could've been at home in a classic Trek episode or early Next Generation. It was a welcome sight.

Damn, it was times like this I miss James Tiberius Kirk. He and Sutra would have done that whole "chasing each other around trees giggling" thing before he put his ***** in her ***** and ********.

 

[Gaultheria]

I read one theory in an article online that maybe Picard would have his consciousness transferred into that android body and that is what would save him from the terminal brain condition.

That may be the Synths' plan, and the topic keeps coming up in Trek ("What Are Little Girls Made Of?"; "The Schizoid Man"; "Inhertance"). Lore's plan in "Descent" — to improve liberated Borg by making them fully synthetic — seems like it might be a factor here, with all of those ex-Borg in the crashed cube who seem to revere Picard as the first of their kind. They would protect from an unwanted, experimental medical procedure.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I wonder if the beings who are the founders of the "Federation of AIs" that's being referenced are the same beings who are responsible for V'Ger in Start Trek: TMP.

 

[Flash525]

Enjoyed the latest episode, though I’m not too fond of those new Romulan Warbirds; for a species of refugees, they’ve certainly amassed a large fleet.

I’m half expecting a Federation fleet to warp in near the end of the next episode too, but we’ll see. Not sure on golden’s motives here either (sorry, forgot her name) but she’s quite happy with genocide?

Regarding Picard in a synthetic body, as much as it pains me, that’s one way to keep the show going on and on with the Picard character, though it wouldn’t be under Patrick, and honestly (I think I also speak for every Trek fan here) that’s not what we’re going to want to see.

Commodore Oh doesn’t seem to have a problem leaving Federation space either, despite Picard having named and shamed her.

Roll on the final, I’m genuinely intrigued to see how they’re going to wrap this one up, and whether they’ll cliffhanger it (lets be honest, they will) or conclude.

 

[Dark Raven]

I watched the Pike-related Short Treks. Would definitely be good to have a Pike era series and even adopting a similar tone. They were more light hearted than Discovery and more along the lines of classic Trek. And it would be a shame to let their Enterprise set go to waste.

 

[Persona]

What in the actual ****

 

[Dr.]

Yeah, a tad predicable and underwhelming. Though, if you’re a big TNG fan, there’s (arguably) an emotion quotient that sustains the episode.

 

[Persona]

that AV Club review was very on the money

All is resolved in an underwhelming Star Trek: Picard finale

also, just frustrating to watch a season of new Picard stuff (and Stewart is still a joy to watch) where so much of it is bent out of shape around a super-convoluted Mass Effect plot

 

[Gaultheria]

Re: 1x10 (season finale)

Narek's line about "from long before our ancestors first arrived on Vulcan" is intriguing. Why give airtime to a line like that, instead of saying something less specific like "long ago", if not to build on it in season 2?

 

[RockSP]

Yeah the show was a mess. Terrible pacing over the 10 episodes (moving ridiculously slow for the first several eps and then shoving too much into the last couple), and a sloppy and badly written plot. But on the positive side the show looks very good production wise and I like the cast for the most part (Jurati isn't interesting to me yet, and Elnor definitely needs some character development). My hope is that future seasons will be better, similar to TNG and DS9.

 

[Dark Raven]

It was a mixed finale. Looks like the theory about Picard getting that golem body was correct. So he's now technically an android. Wasn't fond of this development or his death.

I agree the season was poorly paced and then too much stuffed into the final episode.

Most of Picard's crew aren't very interesting. Is Seven going to be part of it though? She's more watchable than all the rest.

I find Jurati reminiscent of Tilly and somewhat annoying. Did they forget she murdered Bruce Maddox? Most of the others are rather bland.

I didn't like Narissa using the F word. Why would Romulans be using a human expletive to describe having sex?

The version of Blue Skies at the end was sung by Isa Briones who plays Soji. She has a great voice.

 

[Gaultheria]

If ghost Data had said something about an ongoing decay of the memory structures in the quantum simulation of his positronic matrix, or about the simulation being an incomplete copy to begin with, I could've had some sympathy for his desire for assisted suicide. It would've been a metaphor for degenerative illnesses in the real world, and the terrible fates that the afflicted and their families have to contemplate. However, Data seemed to be in no danger as a quantum simulation, and Soong's golem-and-mind-transfer technology offered a cure for his condition. Sure, the cure wasn't immediately available, but it wouldn't have taken more than a few years to build a golem, and if what Data feared was a boring wait, we already know that his consciousness can survive being switched off for 500 years. It seems to me that, in-universe, it would've been worthwhile to at least attempt to transfer Data.

Out-of-universe reasons such as actor availability and all that? Sure, they're entirely valid. They just deserve an in-universe justification that makes sense in-universe.

 

[elgaz]

The finale had some decent moments, particularly

Spoiler

the talk between Data and Picard which was predictably emotional and hard hitting.

All in all though, it just felt rushed rather than climatic, with various ridiculous plot devices utilised to move the story along. The Dr Who style magic wand which can fix electronics and also make hundreds of holographic ships with warp signatures appear? The federation suddenly making a huge U-turn and sending more ships to save a small group of synths than they sent to stop the Borg destroying Earth? Elnor developing some kind of attachment to Seven despite barely knowing her.

Picard dying had some emotional punch, but seeing his new crew almost distraught (despite some of them only having met him a few days or weeks prior) felt forced. Bringing him back in a new body could have opened up some avenues for exploration (Would his lifespan be extended? Would his Borg related PTSD affect his ability to inhabit what is essentially an android body?) . . . but he was essentially just the same as before, which makes you wonder what was the point of him dying rather than just being cured somehow.

All in all the series just felt a bit clumsy to me and had too many missteps. It says a lot that the highlights of the series for me all involved interactions between Picard and members of his TNG crew; perhaps it’s like looking back with rose tinted glasses, but their interactions felt much more authentic than with the newer crew members. The TNG cast had 178 episodes and 4 movies to develop their camaraderie - it feels like the Picard showrunners thought they could achieve the same in 10 eps.

 

[Gaultheria]

The federation suddenly making a huge U-turn and sending more ships to save a small group of synths than they sent to stop the Borg destroying Earth?

Maybe Riker had the same idea as Picard and Dr. Jurati.

Elnor developing some kind of attachment to Seven despite barely knowing her.

That seemed natural to me. Elnor is off to war and away from home for the first time, and Seven is a strong warrior woman with a no-nonsense, commanding presence, so I expect he feels safe around her the way he did back home with his mothers and sisters, the warrior nuns.

 

[Gaultheria]

Looks like the theory about Picard getting that golem body was correct. So he's now technically an android.

It's ironic — or perhaps intentional — since Patrick Stewart was originally on track to play Data before the TNG producers made some casting changes.

 

[Dr.]

If ghost Data had said something about an ongoing decay of the memory structures in the quantum simulation of his positronic matrix, or about the simulation being an incomplete copy to begin with, I could've had some sympathy for his desire for assisted suicide...

An analogous notion was evoked in The Good Place finale. There, characters existed for the equivalent of several lives, underwent a lengthy evolution of personal and moral improvement and then decided that -- at a certain point -- it was time to call it quits. The proverbial “death gives meaning to life” concept. And we might assume that a quantum VR and positronic brain provided Data with a similar (or even superior), Buddhist-y sense of completion. But whereas this process was depicted in The Good Place (throughout the series -- but especially in the finale), the Data scenes in Picard were mostly exposition. I.e., the difference was “showing” vs. “telling.”

 

[Gaultheria]

I'm a little disappointed that Data didn't sing "Daisy, Daisy,..." as they were pulling the chips out.

 

[carrrnuttt]

It's ironic — or perhaps intentional — since Patrick Stewart was originally on track to play Data before the TNG producers made some casting changes.

And as sad as it may be, it will be an excuse later on down the road when eventually undefeated Father Time puts its toll on Sir Stewart, or he just decides to retire.

Re-casting the role of the iconic Picard himself wouldn't be such a crazy thing because of this.