Star Wars - Part 8

[Bim]

So next week will see Obi Wan in full bounty hunter mode and donning a helmet he selects as shown in this preview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2MT_96TD0Y





As you can see below the show is once again paying homage as the helmet is one of the original concept designs for Boba's helmet.

That's cool t:. Looks like Obi's going to have himself a fun time as a bad guy lol. I get the feeling it might not be fun when he has Anakin after him though haha.

I'm probably a minority, but i dont care for Anakin vs Maul, meh. I would rather have seen him face Kenobi again and seeking revenge. I wonder where Savage is in "Revenge", because they only mention Maul... and we better get ready for a cruel cliffhanger in the season finale lol

 

[Spider-Gnome]

A couple things.

First on Lucas not wanting to do more Star Wars based on fan reaction, I don't blame him. Star Wars fandom has to be the most bizarre one ever. How many other fan bases have such hatred for its creator? I have always been a huge Star Wars fan since the beginning in 1977. Nothing dampens my spirit for these films than reading the internet.

Anyway, back to a positive note, really liked this week's Clone Wars. After seeing the previews, I knew it was Obi-Wan just setting something up. You could even tell in the opening when the Jedi Council was discussing a plan by Obi-Wan's reaction. And anyone catch his "code name" when he reported to Mace & Yoda? Ben!

 

[OptimusPrime114]

Jaina Solo and Commander Cody. What's your interest in them?

 

[OptimusPrime114]

And anyone catch his "code name" when he reported to Mace & Yoda? Ben!

I did!

 

[Young Superman]

These are AWESOME!!!

i just read the synopsis of "brothers" and "revenge".

In "brothers", savage opress meets up with darth maul and plans their revenge by attacking the jedi temple.

In "revenge", the duel many have dreamed of: Anakin vs. Maul!

Anakin vs. Maul is gonna be EPIC!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]373589[/split]

 

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]369561[/split]

 

[Axl Van Sixx]

I just watched Plinkett's reviews of the prequels for the first time. Best analysis I've seen of the flaws in those movies. Does anyone else agree with him, not only on the problems with the prequels but on George Lucas as a filmmaker?

Both that and some of the articles on Cracked have made me believe the reason the original trilogy was so much better than the prequels is because in the late 70s Lucas still had other people who could say no to his worst ideas (e.g. C-3PO as a sleazy used car salesman, Han Solo as an alien), whereas by the time of the prequels he had surrounded himself with yes-men. If the OT was more of a collaborative effort, the prequels were all Lucas, and they suffered creatively for it.

Lucas seemed so traumatized by his experience filming A New Hope in Tunisia that by the next time he directed a Star Wars film he had domesticated himself. You see footage of him sitting behind the two cameras drinking his coffee, on a set that's nothing but green screen (or blue, whatever). It's not adventurous at all. You lose a lot of the grit that the OT had by filming on real sets and real locations with models instead of having everything CGI. The prequels have a very slick, cartoon-y feel because the actors are basically in an animated world and this alienates the viewer.

The prequels had a lot of very simple editing, using the most basic camera techniques. Two characters will be walking and talking about some dry trade dispute, they'll stop, then you'll have a standard over-the-shoulder shot, then they'll continue walking. It's just very unimaginative. Hearing that the first cut of A New Hope was similarly flat and dull in its editing makes me think Lucas simply isn't a very creative director when it comes to basic filmmaking techniques.

Anakin was supposed to be a fallen hero but he came off as more of a whiny *****e, at least from what we saw in the movies. His reasons for turning the Dark Side were preposterous (to save Padme from dying because he had a dream about it? All of a sudden he's slaughtering children?).

The prequels in general had awful dialogue. People are saying that now about Red Tails, which just confirms this has always been one of Lucas's big weaknesses.

 

[Spider-Vader]

I love ROTS. But I agree that Lucas isn't the best director/writer anymore. He has awesome ideas, he just needs someone better to control those ideas.

 

[jacobed]

I love all the prequels and I'm pretty sure Lucas would be the first to tell you that he isn't the greatest writer/director. One thing that he does better than most if not all directors is action. Star Wars action scenes are so phenomenal its ridiculous.

 

[Thoix]

I just watched Plinkett's reviews of the prequels for the first time. Best analysis I've seen of the flaws in those movies. Does anyone else agree with him, not only on the problems with the prequels but on George Lucas as a filmmaker?

Both that and some of the articles on Cracked have made me believe the reason the original trilogy was so much better than the prequels is because in the late 70s Lucas still had other people who could say no to his worst ideas (e.g. C-3PO as a sleazy used car salesman, Han Solo as an alien), whereas by the time of the prequels he had surrounded himself with yes-men. If the OT was more of a collaborative effort, the prequels were all Lucas, and they suffered creatively for it.

Lucas seemed so traumatized by his experience filming A New Hope in Tunisia that by the next time he directed a Star Wars film he had domesticated himself. You see footage of him sitting behind the two cameras drinking his coffee, on a set that's nothing but green screen (or blue, whatever). It's not adventurous at all. You lose a lot of the grit that the OT had by filming on real sets and real locations with models instead of having everything CGI. The prequels have a very slick, cartoon-y feel because the actors are basically in an animated world and this alienates the viewer.

The prequels had a lot of very simple editing, using the most basic camera techniques. Two characters will be walking and talking about some dry trade dispute, they'll stop, then you'll have a standard over-the-shoulder shot, then they'll continue walking. It's just very unimaginative. Hearing that the first cut of A New Hope was similarly flat and dull in its editing makes me think Lucas simply isn't a very creative director when it comes to basic filmmaking techniques.

Anakin was supposed to be a fallen hero but he came off as more of a whiny *****e, at least from what we saw in the movies. His reasons for turning the Dark Side were preposterous (to save Padme from dying because he had a dream about it? All of a sudden he's slaughtering children?).

The prequels in general had awful dialogue. People are saying that now about Red Tails, which just confirms this has always been one of Lucas's big weaknesses.

The RLM reviews are some of the worst reviews I've seen on the internet, and this is coming from a fan turned non-fan (mainly thanks to his community).

He doesn't present the flaws, he makes them up, refusing to logically think about what's happening on screen and instead nitpicks the scene to death and tries to make the scene fit his description. There were only a few times where he made any sense, or tried to use his own opinion.

I'm not saying there aren't flaws, but RLM can't seem to always pinpoint actual flaws, only using his opinion to describe what's good and bad. Now that's fine for his opinion, it just doesn't make a good reviews when he's hardly objective about anything in the film.

 

[roach]

The RLM reviews are some of the worst reviews I've seen on the internet, and this is coming from a fan turned non-fan (mainly thanks to his community).

He doesn't present the flaws, he makes them up, refusing to logically think about what's happening on screen and instead nitpicks the scene to death and tries to make the scene fit his description. There were only a few times where he made any sense, or tried to use his own opinion.

I'm not saying there aren't flaws, but RLM can't seem to always pinpoint actual flaws, only using his opinion to describe what's good and bad. Now that's fine for his opinion, it just doesn't make a good reviews when he's hardly objective about anything in the film.

perfectly said

that being said i love the marketing thats going on... was watching the game at a sports bar and when the commercials came on me and a friend would try to talk business but every time the Droid/R2D2 commercial would come on we'd go back to the tv the moment we heard R2's beep booop....it was funny

 

[roach]

I just watched Plinkett's reviews of the prequels for the first time. Best analysis I've seen of the flaws in those movies. Does anyone else agree with him, not only on the problems with the prequels but on George Lucas as a filmmaker?

Both that and some of the articles on Cracked have made me believe the reason the original trilogy was so much better than the prequels is because in the late 70s Lucas still had other people who could say no to his worst ideas (e.g. C-3PO as a sleazy used car salesman, Han Solo as an alien), whereas by the time of the prequels he had surrounded himself with yes-men. If the OT was more of a collaborative effort, the prequels were all Lucas, and they suffered creatively for it.

Lucas seemed so traumatized by his experience filming A New Hope in Tunisia that by the next time he directed a Star Wars film he had domesticated himself. You see footage of him sitting behind the two cameras drinking his coffee, on a set that's nothing but green screen (or blue, whatever). It's not adventurous at all. You lose a lot of the grit that the OT had by filming on real sets and real locations with models instead of having everything CGI. The prequels have a very slick, cartoon-y feel because the actors are basically in an animated world and this alienates the viewer.

The prequels had a lot of very simple editing, using the most basic camera techniques. Two characters will be walking and talking about some dry trade dispute, they'll stop, then you'll have a standard over-the-shoulder shot, then they'll continue walking. It's just very unimaginative. Hearing that the first cut of A New Hope was similarly flat and dull in its editing makes me think Lucas simply isn't a very creative director when it comes to basic filmmaking techniques.

Anakin was supposed to be a fallen hero but he came off as more of a whiny *****e, at least from what we saw in the movies. His reasons for turning the Dark Side were preposterous (to save Padme from dying because he had a dream about it? All of a sudden he's slaughtering children?).

The prequels in general had awful dialogue. People are saying that now about Red Tails, which just confirms this has always been one of Lucas's big weaknesses.

its very opinionated...involves a lot of guessing, heresy and clips edited to reinforce the point of RL.
Can I make a non slanted video about you, Axl Van Sixx, without having met you and just using clips and posts and then using an ex to fill in the blanks.

and Lucas didn't write Red Tails

 

[Hunter Rider]

I love Starkiller's alternative Jedi robes.

Jaina Solo and Commander Cody. What's your interest in them?

Yeah, I know who they are, I liked the Jaina pic because it had a great young Leia likeness and she was sporting Luke's classic pilot uniform. Commander Cody is the most stand out clone trooper IMO, he has a classic moment, great armour/helmet design and is being developed more throught the CW.

 

[roach]

From a written counterpoint to RL:
In this first part, Stoklasa goes over the basics of what he likes to see in a movie, which is fair. What isn't fair is how he gives short shrift to TPM, refusing to say that it meets even the most basic of standards even when it does. He also claims that two of TPM's characters are indescribable blank slates, which is untrue as you will see.
0:53
Plinkett: "Nothing in The Phantom Menace makes any sense at all. It comes off like a script written by an eight-year old. It's like George Lucas finished the script in one draft, like he turned it in and they decided to go with it, without anyone saying that it made no sense at all, or it was a stupid incoherent mess"
As you will see later on, TPM made far more sense than Stoklasa gives it credit for. The alternative stories that he suggests actually make less sense than the actual thing.
1:10
Unsupported statements that Lucas "controls every aspect of the movie" and "probably got rid of those people that questioned him creatively a long time ago" are made. Basic smear tactics.
1:53
The review abruptly jumps to its first part, "1. The Characters."
Plinkett talks about movie "Protagonists" (annoying pronounced "Pro-toe-gone-ist"). He makes some fair points about the value of having likable, identifiable protagonists who the audience roots for, though he's very decompressed as he runs off a long list of movie heroes and shows numerous short clips from various movies. Mostly he shows a bunch of teenage and young adult Regular Joe characters taking crap from people early in their movies, before their adventures start. This takes up most of the next four minutes.

 

[roach]

More:
5:33
Plinkett: "I want you to tell me who the main character of The Phantom Menace was."
He goes through the various characters of TPM, starting with the two Jedi, Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi:
Plinkett: "I can tell ya that it's not the Jedi, they were just on some kinda boring mission that they didn't really care about." [A short clip is shown of Qui-Gon taking a Trade Federation servant droid's drink, as he was sitting down for planned negotiations]
The Jedi didn't care about their mission? They were just there drinking tea, and not fighting? It's really nice to see him make his first real point against the movie in such a fair and honest way. He's totally not trying to start things off by putting misleading impressions in people's heads...
He also calls the Jedi "boring." That's OK if that's his opinion, although being "boring" doesn't disqualify someone from being a main character.
Here's a secret: Qui-Gon is the main character and big hero of this movie, which spends most of its time following him.
5:47
Plinkett: "It wasn't Queen Amidala, cuz she was some foreign queen the movie was certainly not really about specifically either."
True, she's just a supporting character.
5:54
Plinkett: "Ya might be thinking that it's Anakin, cuz he's like a slave, and saved the day at the end, by accidentally blowing up the starship. But the audience doesn't meet Anakin until 45 minutes into the movie."
Wrong. Anakin shows up at almost exactly 32 minutes into the movie. Anakin's resentment at being regarded as a "slave" and not as "a person," as well as his piloting skills and his dreams of leaving Tatooine are quickly introduced. Stoklasa could've made an honest mistake, or he could've been exaggerating to make his case look stronger than it really is.

 

[roach]

Stoklasa jumps right into a criticism of the plot, relying heavily on nitpicks.
0:00
Plinkett: "From the very start of this movie, I could tell something was really wrong. Just by the way it started."
Stoklasa gives his own exaggerated and twisted version of the movie's beginning:
He says that the movie starts off with a "boring pilot" (the woman flying the ship), leaving out the fact that approaching blockade of massive ships. Or that the pilot is sitting in front of two mysterious robed figures, who are seen only from the back. One of whom gets right down to business and tells the pilot that they "wish to board at once." The pilot hails the Trade Federation ship, and the alien leader responds by claiming that their blockade was "perfectly legal" and that they "would be happy to receive the ambassadors" (both lies, as he's clearly up to something and trying to buy some time). The reality is that the movie starts off by immediately presenting a challenge, along with sense of mystery and someone who takes charge and gets things started. It's easy to just toss out the word "boring," without actually explaining how or why the scene is boring, beyond some sarcastic remark that ignores everything that the opening scene was actually about.
Stoklasa then goes on a ridiculous nitpick spree, criticizing the circular shape of the Trade Federation ship, the "flat angle" that the camera was pointed in for one seconds-long shot of the characters walking into a room (really?), and how Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon are given some tea. Stoklasa claims that he was "bored already," sounding like an impatient child as we're only about a minute into the movie.
But the scene that he described would be boring...because he left out all of the best and actually significant parts parts. Such as the Trade Federation leaders being terrified of the Jedi, comically sending a surprised protocol droid out instead. Or the hologram of the evil Lord Sidious, who looks and talks just like the Emperor from the original trilogy (and has the same theme music just to make that clear). Sidious is harsh and cocky, putting down the Trade Federation's cowardly second-in-command: "Viceroy, I don't want this stunted slime in my sight again." He also quickly reveals his powerful influence over the Republic itself:
Viceroy: My Lord, is [the invasion] legal?
Sidious: I will make it legal.
The Dark Lord immediately oozes confidence and power. The very things that many people say they want to see in villains. But no, none of these nice little bits were worth mentioning, if you go by Stoklasa's description of the scene. It was just a couple of bored guys sitting around and drinking tea or something...

 

[roach]

1:29
Plinkett: "The [movie's editor] then attempts to explain pacing, and why four scenes with totally different emotional tones don't work well together."
Editor: "In the space of about ninety seconds, you know you go from lamenting the death of, you know, a hero, to escape, to slightly comedic with Jar Jar, you know, to Anakin returning...[muted by Stoklasa]
Plinkett: "But he kinda realizes he's wasting his time so he stops."
Actually, it looked like he kept talking but Stoklasa silenced him to give us his own version of what happened.
Look closely at what the editor is saying though. "The death" sounds like Qui-Gon's death scene after Maul is killed. "Jar Jar" is self-explanatory; the only thing it could be is Jar Jar's clumsy antics during the ground battle. I assume "Anakin returning" is Anakin happily celebrating as he escapes from the Droid Control Ship, after dealing a fatal blow from the inside.
Lucas and his employees were stressed out from the way that a few specific parts flowed into each other, within a short period of "about ninety seconds." They didn't hate the entire movie, or even the "four scenes" (battles) as Stoklasa is trying to make it look like. To be fair, I did think the tones in some of the battles didn't mesh well with the others. I thought Padmé and the Jedi's parts were great, while the light and comic tone in Anakin and Jar Jar's parts detracted from the tension. But Stoklasa is still overplaying his hand here.
1:51
Plinkett: "Rick McCallum is frozen in utter shock at how horrible the movie was. Internally, he regrets not challenging Lucas on some of the things he was worried about."
Nice of him to play mind-reader, and make up a bunch of things that Rick McCallum was supposedly thinking about.
2:33
Plinkett: "No one looks like they know what's going on, and they all look like they're about to start pointing fingers. But that's just my interpretation of this footage. I wasn't there."
The level of dishonesty here is disgusting. Once again, Stoklasa relies on the same trick. He keeps saying negative things that are unproven or even untrue, then admits that it's not the case or that he can't confirm it. Hammering negative feelings into people's heads, knowing that almost none of them will ever fact check his statements.
Go to the actual finished version of the movie. Qui-Gon has his sad and dramatic death scene. The movie then moves to the streets of Naboo, in a scene that's all business. Queen Amidala and Captain Panaka send the defeated Viceroy off, telling him that he's finished. Palpatine shows up and it's said that he won the election and is the new Chancellor. Yoda and Obi-Wan talk about training Anakin, in a serious scene where Yoda worries about "grave danger." The movie then switches to another grim scene, where we see Qui-Gon's funeral pyre. Yoda and Mace Windu worry about the other Sith who must still be out there. An eerie closeup tells everyone that that other Sith is Palpatine, in case they didn't realize that yet. It's not until after that, in the last scene showing the victory celebration, when the movie takes on a happy tone again. "Anakin's return" and any scenes with Jar Jar? Nowhere to be seen here, but instead shifted into other parts of the movie.
So it looks like Lucas and his people figured out the editing problem that they were worrying about, and drastically reduced the clashing tones from the rough cut. Not that you realize that if you go by Stoklasa's portrayal of things.

 

[roach]

5:17
Plinkett: "To quote Gary Kurtz"
The following quote is displayed onscreen:
"I think one of the problems...is the fact that he (Lucas) doesn't have more people around him who really challenge him."
For those who don't already know, Kurtz was a producer who worked with Lucas on the first two Star Wars movies. He left after TESB following disputes with Lucas over the direction of the story. Instead of the happy ending to ROTJ that we got, Kurtz wanted a bittersweet one where Han Solo is killed in the middle of the third movie, Leia is left
carrying her new burdens as queen, and Luke walks off alone. Personally I think the movie that we did get sounds a lot better, but whatever. Since then, Kurtz has become a rallying point for disgruntled fans on the internet who dislike what Lucas has been doing with Star Wars.
Again, there's nothing wrong with the idea that someone can do better if he's receptive to advice from other people. But Stoklasa keeps digging himself deeper and deeper...
5:24
Plinkett: "You can really see this in the behind-the-scenes videos [a few clips are shown]. People look scared around George...they laugh at his bad jokes. When he comes into the room there's like silence, and fear, terror. Every so often you'll catch some looks of confusion and mistrust. You gotta wonder what some of these people were thinking."
Wow. Seriously wow. It's one thing to go off of documented disagreements like what Gary Kurtz has said about his split with Lucas. It's quite another to act like a paranoid conspiracy weirdo, claiming that you see "terror" and "mistrust" in people's eyes from some benign behind-the-scenes videos. Videos released by Lucasfilm itself. If Lucas's employees looked that freaked out, then why the hell would that video be released? Even in the clips that Stoklasa uses (and his editing has been pretty selective and biased throughout his entire review), I don't see the supposed "fear" that he's claiming. Because it's ridiculous:

 

[roach]

there is more and I'll be happy to email it to ppl...I just hate that RL is becoming or has become the voice of the Star Wars fan

 

[OptimusPrime114]

Yeah. The Red Letter Media guys are *****es.

If they don't like the prequels, fine. They didn't have to act like an angry Wookiee.

 

[gohei_]

I love Starkiller's alternative Jedi robes.

I think the outfit he wears at the death star from the first TFU is the best looking, but this one is also neat.

 

[Bim]

AAnd anyone catch his "code name" when he reported to Mace & Yoda? Ben!

Yeah, i loved it! t: I guess that's his "undercover" name

 

[Erzengel]

That Jedi Starkiller outfit is my favorite.

 

[Bim]