Star Wars - Part 9

[Thread Manager]

This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]376453[/split]

 

[Bim]

So next week will see Obi Wan in full bounty hunter mode and donning a helmet he selects as shown in this preview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2MT_96TD0Y





As you can see below the show is once again paying homage as the helmet is one of the original concept designs for Boba's helmet.

That's cool t:. Looks like Obi's going to have himself a fun time as a bad guy lol. I get the feeling it might not be fun when he has Anakin after him though haha.

I'm probably a minority, but i dont care for Anakin vs Maul, meh. I would rather have seen him face Kenobi again and seeking revenge. I wonder where Savage is in "Revenge", because they only mention Maul... and we better get ready for a cruel cliffhanger in the season finale lol

 

[OptimusPrime114]

Anybody read the Rogue Squadron books?

It's like Top Gun, galactic style.

 

[OptimusPrime114]

That's cool t:. Looks like Obi's going to have himself a fun time as a bad guy lol. I get the feeling it might not be fun when he has Anakin after him though haha.

I'm probably a minority, but i dont care for Anakin vs Maul, meh. I would rather have seen him face Kenobi again and seeking revenge. I wonder where Savage is in "Revenge", because they only mention Maul... and we better get ready for a cruel cliffhanger in the season finale lol

I would love to hear Maul say, "I've been waiting for you, Kenobi. We meet again at last", as a reference to ANH.

 

[Bim]

I would love to hear Maul say, "I've been waiting for you, Kenobi. We meet again at last", as a reference to ANH.

Haaa! I could live with that t:

 

[roach]

On the subject of Galaxies I recall a review that I agree with: Instead of being a Luke/Han simulator it was an Uncle Owen simulator.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

In SWG you could be Uncle Owen ( crafting was deep in the game ) but you could be much more. On my server, there was a guild whom members were named like Stormtroopers ( TK #number ), they had to wear the full ST armor and they showed up in town all lined up, it was really nice to see them.

 

[Young Superman]

The Star Wars prequel trilogy had it's flaws, but Ewan McGregor was awesome as Obi-Wan Kenobi.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I think most of the actors were awesome. The dialogue and story were the biggest problems.

 

[Young Superman]

Agreed Llama_Shepherd, Also IMO Hayden Christensen was not that bad as Anakin Skywalker either.

 

[Marx]

I honestly blame Lucas's direction for the prequels not being up to par. The better Star Wars movies are the ones he didn't direct.

 

[The_Raganork]

I honestly blame Lucas's direction for the prequels not being up to par. The better Star Wars movies are the ones he didn't direct.

A lot of people agree with this and I suppose for the most part that's true but there's no way Jedi is better than A New Hope

There are even distinct moments in the Prequels that are very compelling.

in TPM: Darh Maul extinguishing his lightsaber as our heroes leave Tattoine. Darth Maul's reappearance in Theed.

In AOTC: Anakin on his speeder under the setting suns. Dooku talking to Sidious.

in ROTS: To me, the entire opening of ROTS is EXACTLY what made me fall in love with Star Wars. The decisive moment where Anakin is in the council chambers thinking about Padme. (Lucas and Williams really make this scene great). Order 66. Yoda and Obi Wan taking back the Jedi Temple. The moment where Obi-Wan ignites his lightsaber against Anakin. The play back and forward of Padme dying and Vader being born and though it was included in the film, Yoda landing on Dagobah.

I don't think the prequels are as good as the OT, with the exception of Revenge which I think is on par with Jedi, but in fairness. Empire was the only non-Lucas film that really soared above his own works.

 

[Marx]

I'm not saying that the prequels don't have those jaw-dropping moments. I'm saying that the story could've used some work and the actors shouldn't have been so wooden.

Darth Maul and the epic battles in Revenge are some of my favorite moments of the entire series.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I don't think the prequels are as good as the OT, with the exception of Revenge which I think is on par with Jedi, but in fairness. Empire was the only non-Lucas film that really soared above his own works.

The thing is though, where do you draw the line with crediting Empire for being better than ANH? and I don't think it is *that* much better.
Because everything that is in Empire, was already there in ANH, established by George's direction of the first movie. It's the story that is more compelling, because the good guys are on the run, and that was George's story, and co-writing screenplay credit(even though he receives no such onscreen credit, he did co-write the screenplay for Empire).
I'm not sure Irvin Kreshner had *that* much to do with how Empire turned out, he was riffing on George's tunes.
So, y'know, maybe Empire was better because George's story was better.

 

[Bim]

Young Superman: i thought Hayden played darkness rather well, and yes, he did have moments of wooden acting, but that's not a fault exclusive to him. Some lines were just mind blowing (in my opinion, of course). As far as him playing Anakin whiny, i always thought Luke was a total brat in ANH, so Hayden didnt really bug me that much haha.

I honestly blame Lucas's direction for the prequels not being up to par. The better Star Wars movies are the ones he didn't direct.

I must disagree. For me ANH and ROTS take the top honors as the best SW movies, and both were directed by Lucas. At the end of the day, I think it's all a matter of personal opinion and preference.

 

[danoyse]

I honestly blame Lucas's direction for the prequels not being up to par. The better Star Wars movies are the ones he didn't direct.

Actually, the one he did direct is still my favorite. I watched it this weekend - it still works as a standalone movie.

I think the biggest problem between that movie and TPM is pacing. Star Wars literally starts the movie in the middle of an action sequence: the opening crawl explains that the good guys stole something from the bad guys, and then movie just opens with the bad guys chasing the good guys. Within 15 minutes, we're meeting Luke Skywalker.

With TPM, the opening just plods along about trade federation and taxes on trade routes, rescuing the queen takes forever to get to, the whole Gungan city scene that really didn't need to be there...then finally, we meet Anakin - 45 minutes into the movie.

They should have just taken a cue from the original film and just opened it as they were escaping Naboo, and just went running from there.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

All this and apparently, Lucas was very reluctant to actually direct actors in A New Hope, and left it to others. He was in the prequels, I think a great director, he just had piss poor screenplay writing skills. This article sums up the most why I am disappointed with the prequels:

Twice a year, fellow Cracked employee Cody Johnston and I make it a point to drink a whole lot and talk about Star Wars. It's a fun and important tradition, usually done on our birthdays. Sometimes we talk about how great Star Wars is, but mostly we talk about how great the prequels could have been. It might be my favorite thing to do.

Let's get something straight before we move on: A lot of people talk about very obvious, superficial ways in which the Star Wars sequels could have been saved. Get rid of Jar Jar. Make it less about the Trade Federation and a powerful Sith Lord's rise to power under the guise of a corrupt bureaucrat and more about other things that aren't that. Hire someone who knows how to handle George Lucas when he gets all ... George Lucasy. And they're right, but fixing a movie shouldn't just be about getting rid of the ****** stuff.



Some people think that the prequels never should have been made at all, and that the original trilogy, while not perfect, is perfect enough in our rose-tinted imaginations that any additions to the franchise not only won't live up to the originals but will actually undermine the originals and highlight all of their flaws. Any Star Wars fan who is vocal about their hatred of the prequels based on the woodenness of the acting, the awfulness of the dialogue and the goofiness of some of the characters is forced to confront the fact that all three of those flaws were also very present in the original trilogy.

They think the prequels shouldn't have been made because no matter how good they are, they can only taint our memory of the originals. But I know the prequels should have been made, because I've talked about them with Cody.


But What if Instead ...


For starters, there never should have been any impetus to bring absolutely every plot point or character in Star Wars full circle. No one needs to know where C-3PO came from, especially when his back story (he was built!) isn't all that exciting. No one needs to know where Boba Fett came from, especially when his back story (he was cloned!) isn't all that exciting and doesn't help you understand the character any better. Just as one broad, sweeping decree: Not every character ever brought up in Star Wars needs to be represented in the prequels. No one needs to see a few seconds of Chewie and a few seconds of Jabba, because no one has any reason to wonder, going into the prequels, "Hey, what do you suppose Jabba's doing during this whole pod-racing adventure?" Don't force answers to questions we have no reason to ask.

Here is the only question you should be answering in a Star Wars prequel:


How did Anakin become Darth Vader?


George Lucas went wrong when he made the prequels an origin story for everything, when he should have made an origin story for Vader. That is an intriguing story worth exploring.

With that in mind, imagine, if you will, a Star Wars trilogy that was all about the close friendship and eventual ruin of two great friends, Anakin and Obi-Wan. Even though Liam Neeson was the best part of Phantom Menace, I don't need Qui-Gon. I don't want to see Anakin as an annoying little boy who can't act, and I don't want to see him as smart-mouthed teen who makes Obi-Wan look like a cranky, overprotective mother. I want to see two 20-something badass wizard-knights trolling the galaxy and ensuring order.

There's a scene in Revenge of the Sith when Obi-Wan and Anakin are laser-sword-fighting on the hell-planet when Obi-Wan, clearly feeling hurt and betrayed, yells out, "You were supposed to be the chosen one!" And we, as the audience, feel nothing. The ultimate divorce between Obi-Wan and Anakin carried no emotional weight. The only evidence of their friendship was when Anakin said something along the lines of "You know, Obi-Wan, you've always been a good friend to me," at some point in Episode III, about 30 minutes before they fight each other. That's the only glimpse of friendship we get. When a character flat out tells the audience, "No, we're very good friends, trust me."

But let's say that the first two movies were devoted solely to Obi-Wan and Anakin training and being Jedi warriors, kicking ass and being best friends. They're Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, in space. A friendship that you believed as strongly as you believed that Luke, Leia and Han would be forever bound to each other. Not only would movies about two Jedi warriors be objectively more entertaining than movies about trade federations, galactic senates and stuffy, over-bearing Jedi councils, but it would make the eventual Obi-Wan and Anakin betrayal so much more powerful. We already knew going into the prequels that Anakin was going to turn into Vader, so making him a whiny, aggressive, cocky little **** does nothing for the character. When Obi-Wan slices up Anakin on the hell-planet, we shouldn't be saying "Finally," we should be heartbroken that a character that we'd spent two movies knowing and loving had to chop up his best friend, another character that we'd spent two movies knowing and loving. The only way that Anakin's transformation into Vader can make any kind of impact is if his fall from grace is an actual fall, and not a stumble.

I want to like Anakin. Luke was a whiner, but you still liked him. Anakin was just a dick, and you couldn't wait for him to get his ass laser-chopped. You could make a Star Wars movie that was, essentially, a buddy cop movie set in space with an enormous budget, setting up Anakin as the space-Riggs to Obi-Wan's space-Murtaugh.

Once the friendship is established, the betrayal that leads to Anakin's eventual turn to the dark side a) will have more of an impact and b) could be about almost anything. Cody's pitch is that Anakin and Padme were a loving married couple, but Obi-Wan was always secretly in love with her and, eventually, acted on that love. Your wife cheats on you with your absolute best friend and mentor; that sounds to me like a pretty good reason to flip out and kill all of the Jedi. Certainly a better reason than whatever they did in the movie (Padme died in a dream? Obi-Wan wouldn't let Anakin be a Jedi Master? Something something, Sand People? I honestly can't remember what Anakin was so mad about).


It would also explain why Obi-Wan feels such a strong responsibility to hang out and watch over Luke. If it hadn't been for Obi-Wan's affair with Padme, Anakin never would have flipped out and Luke would have had a father growing up who wasn't Darth Vader.

So that's our Star Wars prequels. Two best friends patrol the galaxy until one breaks the other's heart so profoundly that he dedicates his life to wiping all Jedi out of the galaxy. I think that's slightly better than the tricky nuances of trade negotiations and asthmatic Sith lords, but hey, that's just me.

 

[danoyse]

All this and apparently, Lucas was very reluctant to actually direct actors in A New Hope, and left it to others. He was in the prequels, I think a great director, he just had piss poor screenplay writing skills. This article sums up the most why I am disappointed with the prequels:

Twice a year, fellow Cracked employee Cody Johnston and I make it a point to drink a whole lot and talk about Star Wars. It's a fun and important tradition, usually done on our birthdays. Sometimes we talk about how great Star Wars is, but mostly we talk about how great the prequels could have been. It might be my favorite thing to do.

Let's get something straight before we move on: A lot of people talk about very obvious, superficial ways in which the Star Wars sequels could have been saved. Get rid of Jar Jar. Make it less about the Trade Federation and a powerful Sith Lord's rise to power under the guise of a corrupt bureaucrat and more about other things that aren't that. Hire someone who knows how to handle George Lucas when he gets all ... George Lucasy. And they're right, but fixing a movie shouldn't just be about getting rid of the ****** stuff.



Some people think that the prequels never should have been made at all, and that the original trilogy, while not perfect, is perfect enough in our rose-tinted imaginations that any additions to the franchise not only won't live up to the originals but will actually undermine the originals and highlight all of their flaws. Any Star Wars fan who is vocal about their hatred of the prequels based on the woodenness of the acting, the awfulness of the dialogue and the goofiness of some of the characters is forced to confront the fact that all three of those flaws were also very present in the original trilogy.

They think the prequels shouldn't have been made because no matter how good they are, they can only taint our memory of the originals. But I know the prequels should have been made, because I've talked about them with Cody.


But What if Instead ...


For starters, there never should have been any impetus to bring absolutely every plot point or character in Star Wars full circle. No one needs to know where C-3PO came from, especially when his back story (he was built!) isn't all that exciting. No one needs to know where Boba Fett came from, especially when his back story (he was cloned!) isn't all that exciting and doesn't help you understand the character any better. Just as one broad, sweeping decree: Not every character ever brought up in Star Wars needs to be represented in the prequels. No one needs to see a few seconds of Chewie and a few seconds of Jabba, because no one has any reason to wonder, going into the prequels, "Hey, what do you suppose Jabba's doing during this whole pod-racing adventure?" Don't force answers to questions we have no reason to ask.

Here is the only question you should be answering in a Star Wars prequel:


How did Anakin become Darth Vader?


George Lucas went wrong when he made the prequels an origin story for everything, when he should have made an origin story for Vader. That is an intriguing story worth exploring.

With that in mind, imagine, if you will, a Star Wars trilogy that was all about the close friendship and eventual ruin of two great friends, Anakin and Obi-Wan. Even though Liam Neeson was the best part of Phantom Menace, I don't need Qui-Gon. I don't want to see Anakin as an annoying little boy who can't act, and I don't want to see him as smart-mouthed teen who makes Obi-Wan look like a cranky, overprotective mother. I want to see two 20-something badass wizard-knights trolling the galaxy and ensuring order.

There's a scene in Revenge of the Sith when Obi-Wan and Anakin are laser-sword-fighting on the hell-planet when Obi-Wan, clearly feeling hurt and betrayed, yells out, "You were supposed to be the chosen one!" And we, as the audience, feel nothing. The ultimate divorce between Obi-Wan and Anakin carried no emotional weight. The only evidence of their friendship was when Anakin said something along the lines of "You know, Obi-Wan, you've always been a good friend to me," at some point in Episode III, about 30 minutes before they fight each other. That's the only glimpse of friendship we get. When a character flat out tells the audience, "No, we're very good friends, trust me."

But let's say that the first two movies were devoted solely to Obi-Wan and Anakin training and being Jedi warriors, kicking ass and being best friends. They're Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, in space. A friendship that you believed as strongly as you believed that Luke, Leia and Han would be forever bound to each other. Not only would movies about two Jedi warriors be objectively more entertaining than movies about trade federations, galactic senates and stuffy, over-bearing Jedi councils, but it would make the eventual Obi-Wan and Anakin betrayal so much more powerful. We already knew going into the prequels that Anakin was going to turn into Vader, so making him a whiny, aggressive, cocky little **** does nothing for the character. When Obi-Wan slices up Anakin on the hell-planet, we shouldn't be saying "Finally," we should be heartbroken that a character that we'd spent two movies knowing and loving had to chop up his best friend, another character that we'd spent two movies knowing and loving. The only way that Anakin's transformation into Vader can make any kind of impact is if his fall from grace is an actual fall, and not a stumble.

I want to like Anakin. Luke was a whiner, but you still liked him. Anakin was just a dick, and you couldn't wait for him to get his ass laser-chopped. You could make a Star Wars movie that was, essentially, a buddy cop movie set in space with an enormous budget, setting up Anakin as the space-Riggs to Obi-Wan's space-Murtaugh.

Once the friendship is established, the betrayal that leads to Anakin's eventual turn to the dark side a) will have more of an impact and b) could be about almost anything. Cody's pitch is that Anakin and Padme were a loving married couple, but Obi-Wan was always secretly in love with her and, eventually, acted on that love. Your wife cheats on you with your absolute best friend and mentor; that sounds to me like a pretty good reason to flip out and kill all of the Jedi. Certainly a better reason than whatever they did in the movie (Padme died in a dream? Obi-Wan wouldn't let Anakin be a Jedi Master? Something something, Sand People? I honestly can't remember what Anakin was so mad about).


It would also explain why Obi-Wan feels such a strong responsibility to hang out and watch over Luke. If it hadn't been for Obi-Wan's affair with Padme, Anakin never would have flipped out and Luke would have had a father growing up who wasn't Darth Vader.

So that's our Star Wars prequels. Two best friends patrol the galaxy until one breaks the other's heart so profoundly that he dedicates his life to wiping all Jedi out of the galaxy. I think that's slightly better than the tricky nuances of trade negotiations and asthmatic Sith lords, but hey, that's just me.

Wow, there's some good stuff. I agree, the Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship was extremely shortchanged, which was disappointing. Their characters were very empty compared to what we knew from the original trilogy - or at least the potential that was there from what we knew.

The only time I really saw them as "friends" was the opening 20 minutes of ROTS, which is one of my favorite sequences in the prequels. Anakin and Obi-Wan reminded me of Luke, Han, and Leia trying to escape the Death Star in those scenes. Sadly, there's not enough of that in the prequels.

I loved Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan (again, one of my favorite parts of the prequels)...but you knew nothing more about his character in the prequels. I would loved to have seen him secretly in love with Padme, or with the storyline of the ROTJ novelization where it turned out that Owen had been his brother. Just to give him some kind of background, and more life to his character. Something for him to truly mourn when he was alone on Tatooine.

I loved Qui-Gon, so I'm fine with keeping him around, and even with Anakin starting off as a child in the series...but I would have had the older Anakin in Part 1, and either make the transition early in the movie, or just have the younger Anakin's story told via flashback (which is where Qui-Gon could still fit in).

I agree that introducing characters like C-3PO and Boba Fett were really there for fan service...but I'm a fan and I love those characters, so I'm ok with their additions to the story.

I definitely think there were a lot of lost opportunities in the prequels, but it doesn't mess up anything about the original trilogy for me.

 

[CConn]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone disagree with one simple fact;

The prequels should've mirrored the OT in one major way; they should've been just as much about the war as they are about Vader.

With the OT, the way the films are constructed, we feel as though we're witnessing the entirety of a war; we see the rebels launch their first major salvo in ANH, then we see them suffer defeat in ESB, to finally winning it all in ROTJ.

With the prequels, nearly the entirety of the Clone Wars took place off screen. Can you imagine if they rebellion defeated the empire between ANH and ESB? It would've been awful.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

If they had to have 3PO in the prequels, and have Anakin build him, he should've been been building him in Menace, and Clones, with help from R2, finishing him in Sith to help watch over Padmé, Luke and Leia. So in essence, 3PO was always really Leia's and Luke's.

Qui-Gon was sauce, but his role should have been reduced. Or he should have just happened to be assigned to the same mission as Anakin and Obi-Wan. Like he was their father and Ben and Ani were brothers.

 

[danoyse]

I don't think I've ever heard anyone disagree with one simple fact;

The prequels should've mirrored the OT in one major way; they should've been just as much about the war as they are about Vader.

With the OT, the way the films are constructed, we feel as though we're witnessing the entirety of a war; we see the rebels launch their first major salvo in ANH, then we see them suffer defeat in ESB, to finally winning it all in ROTJ.

With the prequels, nearly the entirety of the Clone Wars took place off screen. Can you imagine if they rebellion defeated the empire between ANH and ESB? It would've been awful.

Agreed. I'm still annoyed that we had to wait for a cartoon to find out what happened during the Clone Wars.

And the show is very good. But dammit, why wasn't that in the movies?!

 

[danoyse]

If they had to have 3PO in the prequels, and have Anakin build him, he should've been been building him in Menace, and Clones, with help from R2, finishing him in Sith to help watch over Padmé, Luke and Leia. So in essence, 3PO was always really Leia's and Luke's.

Qui-Gon was sauce, but his role should have been reduced. Or he should have just happened to be assigned to the same mission as Anakin and Obi-Wan. Like he was their father and Ben and Ani were brothers.

I wanted Padme trying to protect her kids, too. Not this 'dying of a broken heart' nonsense. I wanted her to dying in a blaze of glory, defying the Empire and fighting to defend her children.

I wanted that scene where Leia remembers her mother and tells Luke about her in ROTJ to actually mean something more, because we would have seen what she had done to protect them.

Maybe Qui-Gon could have been the dissenting voice on the Jedi Council, instead the rebel they wouldn't allow on the council.

 

[CConn]

Agreed. I'm still annoyed that we had to wait for a cartoon to find out what happened during the Clone Wars.

And the show is very good. But dammit, why wasn't that in the movies?!

Because it was more important to show Anakin as a 9yo.

It is kind of bittersweet for me. I actually like TPM more than any or the prequels, largely due to Neeson, but...the trilogy would've been much better served if it started with AOTC.

And Y'know, if AOTC was good.

 

[sandmjuggalos]

I feel like an idiot, but why is Obi Wan in bounty hunter garb? I've missed so many episodes due to work. Is there a simple explanation or should I just research it?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

If Qui-Gon was a dissenting voice on the council we would not have Mace Windu. Or Qui-Gon's relationships with Anakin and Obi-Wan. Something I actually really enjoy about the prequels.

Out of interest, how would you do The Phantom Menace, if you could? Because personally, I think Lucas could craft some good story.

But what I would change is that Qui-Gon Jinn (a seasoned Jedi Master), his former apprentice Obi-Wan Kenobi and a young Anakin Skywalker are sent to the Trade Fed ship.

The three Jedi still go to the Queen, and they still crash-land on Tatooine, which is where Anakin's from. And he sees his mother has been sold into slavery. He frees her and she dies anyway. Obi-Wan provides him with emotional support, while Qui-Gon provides him with advice about his feelings and not to surrender to them. Qui-Gon is still attacked by Maul.

Anakin spends some alone time with the Queen. He confides in her.

The rest of the movie would continue as normal with Ani destroying the Trade ship and Maul killing Qui-Gon. But this time Anakin doesn't let go of his hate and he slips a little to the dark side.