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Discussion in 'Star Wars Rebels' started by Thread Manager, Nov 14, 2014.
i was not a fan of Yuuzhan Vong
No one said anything about the vong.
Thats not what its hinting at at all. The Empire is still the corrupt broken thing its always been.
The Chiss just want to know if the Empire could be an ally. Thrawn realizes by the end that it is a corrupt political system being led by callous evil men. But he doesnt think the entire Empire should be burned down or destroyed by rebellion.
Thrawn's plan was to remain by the Emperor's side until he died and then help guide and reform the Empire so that it could be a better system of government and an ally of the Chiss. Thats why he works so fast and so hard to become an Admiral. He starts discovering resource irregularities and patterns and begins to put it together that the Empire is building some massive military instilation. He eventually figures out that it is the Death Star. At one point he tells a rebel leader suring a parlay that if the Death Star is intended for the wrong things he will abandon the Empire. When he finds out exactly what the Death Star is and what the Emperor plans to do with it he sends Eli his long time friend and Imperial ally to the Chiss Empire to learn and to help the Chiss Empire and Thrawn remains with the Empire to continue his reconnaissance.
Basically Thrawn wanted to do what Admiral Sloane tries to do in the Aftermath books.
I know...but they came from the unknown regions as well....
Yeah I don't really like any of that.
Its not even a drastically different depiction of Thrawn. He's always been a more unorthodox figure driven a complex ideology, only in this instance [blackout] The Chiss Ascendancy is more of a proactive power behind Thrawn's goals. [/blackout]
I would like it if someone who's Thrawn's rhetorical equal challenged his cost-benefit analysis of the Empire as a necessary evil. Thrawn in Legends was supposedly prepping for the Vong, but it hard to argue that just informing everyone of the threat outright would have been far more effective, efficient and competent of a maneuver compared to backing a politically poisoned totalitarian military police state that seems to breed horrible leaders like rabbits. And even the Empore he was trying to salvage wound up losing to the New Republic, and that was after he'd started streamlining and reforming sections of it. Though there is a possible explanation that would apply to Canon Thrawn to assist his bad decision:
Since the book removes most of the implication that Thrawn would have realized the Clone Wars was a giant scam like he did in Legends, it makes sense that he'd evaluate the natural state of the Galactic Republic as being to soft and schismatic. And as a Chiss infiltrator, it kind of plays as him simply evaluating the larger force. But it would still be interesting of someone confronted him with that fact that Empire's unstable excesses are intrinsic to its nature, and that arguably both Republics, on war footing, are easily more powerful and efficient than the Empire, thanks to sheer numbers and popular support combining with a less deliberately sabotaged class system (not to mention far more active Force Users in the field)
You'd probably have someone eventually reveal that Thrawn has a handicap just from the cultural context in which he views the Empire; hailing from a besieged authoritarian regime with what does seem to be genuine meritocratic features, it may be he just can't immediately grasp the Empire's weakness as a truly galactic government and bureaucracy. He's not truly blind to the option, but his viewpoint starts at such a point that Palpatine only has to work a little bit of magic to keep Thrawn in his erroneous viewpoint.
At the very least, I want some pragmatic, fairly ruthless but exceedingly competent Imperial similar to Thrawn to eventually grapple with those issues and either defect to the Rebellion or Republic on wholly logic-based reasoning or have a clear moment of illogical denial.
"Multiple species, with multiple viewpoints and racial philosophies, simply cannot hold power together for long. The dominant voice must certainly be wise enough to adopt ideas and methods from its allies and member peoples. But there must be a dominant voice, or there is only chaos. In this part of the galaxy, that voice is the Empire."
Given how things turned out for the Republic, both in the PT and what we've seen leading up to the ST, he's got a point.
Definitely. A reformed Thrawn led Empire would have probably been a more stable government. The New Republic that the Alliance formed was a gridlocked ineffective mess in Bloddlines. Granted it didn't help that a portion of the government wanted to bring the Empire back, was trying to start the First Order, and was deliberately sabotaging the New Republic's government. But all that could have probably been avoided if the Empire had been reformed and remained an Empire instead of becoming a Senate led Republic.
A lot of the Empire's problems came from the Moffs, Vader, and Palpatine. Get rid of them and make policy that puts civilians's lives ahead of damn fuel and metals and weapons and it would have been much better.
And my response to that would be to point out that The Empire had a briefer reign than either the New Republic and especially the Galactic Republic, and that both Republics required other powerful nation states to oppose them, as opposed to internal dispute. And even the issues of the New Republic still weren't adequate enough for the First Order to directly challenge them, since they wound up using a superweapon to wipe out the NR fleet and are apparently *still* in for a fairly vicious Galactic War.
I mean, simple historical record would suggest that the very passage Roose just quoted is hilariously inaccurate- at least as far as *peacetime* goes. The key to Thrawn's argument is the idea of the Empire being a better war-time government, which is quite a bit more debateable, but even then, I think they've got all the same ingrained problems of real world totalitarian governments in war-time.
Thrawn may have been able to reform the Galactic Empire into a true meritocracy and utterly efficient military machine... But I feel that he possibly could have done the same thing to a war-time Republic, with far less wasted energy and lives, and with quite possibly far more internal stability. The Galactic Empire during the period of the OT seems incapable of winning either the peace before Endor or the war afterwards.
I know we're just shooting the breeze, but I'd love to see this kind of argument accurately carried out in universe.
SWR panel is on right now
nothing interesting as of yet
This is about all I have gotten from it so far:
Tiya talking about Sabine for Season 4 was fun. SHe was soo nervous and freaking out with the hat sitting next too her
Filoni is bringing in the Noghri!!!
Warwick Davis is voicing Rukh!!!
This has been fun.
Now where is the trailer!!!?
Season 4 is the final season. Figured as much. They were running out of time by getting too close to ANH
Yep, season 4 is going to be the last season.
They are finally going to get to play with Luke, Leia and Han post-RotJ. You have to know that is where it is headed.
Trailer was great.
"The balance" has a lot of new meaning after the TLJ trailer...
I hope so
Also Bo-Katan with the Darksaber
Final season as we kinda expected, trailer looks great though. Very excited to see how this will all end and what the animation team will do from here on out with a new show.
I really dig the new look.