Starz Black Sails

There are too many differences between the characters and events shown in Black Sails and the characters and events in Treasure Island.

Indeed, the show is very much it's own story. Treasure Island canon and real life history get twisted to suit Black Sails. I'm cool with it :D
 
Finally bingewatched the last season of this show after finally getting Starz back. Oh what a treat that was. The final ship battle was phenomenal. And the ending... wow, lot to think about there.

Yes, he was. I don't understand how can the ending shown here lead to the events of Treasure Island. It's like the writers decided to completely ignore the established book canon.

There is a line towards the end of the show... I think Silver says it... about how nothing every really happens exactly the way the history books say and how with with passage of time, stories will get twisted and pirates will be made out to be that bad guys, etc. I think what they were implying here is that (in this world) Treasure Island is a true story but it probably didn't all play out exactly the way people believe it did.

A friend of mine also suggested Flint's ending was rather ambiguous, which I do agree with. I like to think Silver's story was true, but there's certainly points to suggest it wasn't (the birds) and points to suggest it was (sending someone to the farm to make inquiries). In the end, unless the show-runners state one way or the other, which I hope they don't, Flint's fate remains either a mystery, or is decided by each individual viewer's preference.

I wonder if anyone thought the overall ending was too happy? I liked seeing everyone land on their feet because it was the most unexpected way the show could have gone, but it's pretty rare for a drama these days. Certainly rare for a series that got as dark as Black Sails did at times.

Yeah, given the scene with the birds (was there also a gunshot? I couldn't tell), I think we're meant to interpret everything the way we want to. Maybe Flint went to Savannah, or maybe James McGraw truly was "dead" and Flint had forever embraced his new identity and therefore wouldn't give up the treasure. The more I think about it, the more I think Silver killed him because the treasure was never recovered. And given the last conversation Silver has with Madi, I didn't get the impression she was ever going to forgive him. And let's not forget that the ending hinges on us believing Silver--the ultimate unreliable narrator.

So perhaps that's why we got the Mega Happy Ending. It felt too happy because it was too happy, and that's not how it all ended up.
 
Having never seen the show, I picked up the final season on DVD last week (it was on the shelf for a much reduced price). Have been binge-watching it, and enjoying it immensely. I loved Treasure Island as a kid, but this has really exceeded my expectations - although I did get a bit skeptical of the idea of Flint and company as revolutionaries rather than just seafaring robbers.

What a great show. I think that 4 seasons was enough to tell the story without it getting stale.
 
This was a great series. I do wish that they did a Treasure Island movie to end everything but it's alright.
 
Loved this show. Was my pickup after Spartacus ended. Was a bit slow going to start, but it certainly picked up the pace as it’s went along.
 
This show is a classic. Better than GoT, Spartacus, Vikings and any other show involving swords that I can think of. It's criminal that there are still so many people who know nothing about it. It works as both an awesome prequel to Treasury Island and a formidable piece of historical fiction. Also a pretty groundbreaking show in terms of LGBTQ characters, in that four of the leads were queer. Absolutely one of my favorite shows of all time.
 
This show is a classic. Better than GoT, Spartacus, Vikings and any other show involving swords that I can think of. It's criminal that there are still so many people who know nothing about it. It works as both an awesome prequel to Treasury Island and a formidable piece of historical fiction. Also a pretty groundbreaking show in terms of LGBTQ characters, in that four of the leads were queer. Absolutely one of my favorite shows of all time.

Yeah. It was a real surprise - GOT comes across as kind of trashy in comparison. Even at its most brutal BS season 4 never felt gratuitous ( like the violence or sex was simply to pander to the audience, and wasn't part of the storytelling ).

I enjoyed the complexity of relationships and the constantly shifting alliances. I particularly liked Max, and her quiet poise and subtlety - probably one of the best female characters I've seen in a while. I loved the complexity of her character in that despite her betrayals she becomes the most competent and moral character - certainly the one with the clearest vision of the situation.

BTW I'm sure you and many others must have noticed that the way that the creation of the Long John Silver myth is pretty much the same way that the "Dread Pirate Roberts" myth was created in the Princess Bride.

Totally agree, a great series.

Did you enjoy ( or have seen) Justified?
 
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Haha you know, I don't remember if the Dread Pirate Roberts thing crossed my mind when I was watching it but you're right, that was very likely an influence. And I agree, Max is a great character. She used to get a lot of hate from the fanbase, which I never understood. Especially after the hell she went through in the first season; I'm surprised she didn't just try to burn Nassau after the ground after that ****.

And yes! Justified is a classic too. Definitely one of my favorite shows and one that, like Black Sails, maintained its quality throughout, unlike Game of ****ing Thrones.
 
Wow ! This show is amazing. Flint is such a complicated character you're never precisely sure if he's the hero or the villain of the story - in fact he's sometimes both at the same time.
 
Woodes Rogers was probably one of my favourite antagonists of recent television.


He was terrific, and like Flint a deeply complicated character - a real veneer of charm and civility concealing desperation, ruthlessness and a real capacity for cruelty. The whole Keelhauling scene was intense, but did a lot for Rogers' villain turn.

This series was criminally underrated - glad it didn't go on for too long, because it would be very unrealistic to imagine Pirates with long happy lives - although I still enjoyed Flint's fairytale ending, although as Billy pointed out, he had a lot to answer for in terms of lies, murder and lives ruined ( which was never paid ). I feel like Flint was meant to be a larger than life character - more of a force of nature than a man. Unlike Charles Vane, who dies to unite the pirates against the British regime, Flint doesn't really have a redemption ending.
 
Sorry to bump this old thread but I figured it couldn't hurt because a lot of us are digging up old shows to watch in the quarantine. Proud of myself that so far I've gotten my girlfriend and one of my best friends addicted to this show in the past few weeks; neither of them had even heard of it before. This show was such a gem. Easily one of the best of all time. And it's up on Hulu now so you don't need a Starz subscription to watch it. Only thing that is annoying is the constant commercial breaks.
 
Yeah I rewatched the finale recently too. Still one of my favorite finales (and favorite shows of all time). My partner wasn’t crazy about the finale though; she was furious at Silver for ending the war and also it annoyed her that there were some questions about what really happened to Flint. I don’t know; I liked that it was ambiguous and it all depends on whether you believe Silver or not.
 
Yeah I rewatched the finale recently too. Still one of my favorite finales (and favorite shows of all time). My partner wasn’t crazy about the finale though; she was furious at Silver for ending the war and also it annoyed her that there were some questions about what really happened to Flint. I don’t know; I liked that it was ambiguous and it all depends on whether you believe Silver or not.

Silver could see that the war would only end when Flint was dead, because IMO even if he'd taken Nassau, held it and transformed it, his obsession with getting revenge on England would have pushed him to keep going and strike further.

Along the way Flint would have chewed up more and more people - which Silver has seen him do throughout the show. Madi and the Maroons were just means to an end for Flint, and had he needed to I'm sure he would have sacrificed them too.

While Flint is the main character he's as much a villain as a hero and for all his fancy talk of illuminating the world, he's murdered friends and men who trusted him to advance his goals. Flint has plenty of admirable characteristics, but the moment someone's interests conflict with his.....even if he feels sad about doing it, Flint will still kill them.

To me, this made Flint more compelling than even Tony Soprano ; who has some redeeming qualities. Flint is so complex, he's kind of mesmerizing. Definitely one of the best characters ever written for TV. And the reveal of his bisexuality is done in a low key way, that works within the context of the show that it just adds another layer to him.

The idea of controlling the narrative and stories not necessarily reflecting the truth is such a key idea, throughout the series, that Flint's slightly ambiguous ending is completely consistent with it. Personally I like to think he found Thomas again and became James McGraw. I like that the legend of Long John Silver lived on, but the man himself just stepped away.

While there is a very impressive set piece battle in the finale, there's also a lot of talking- maybe a little too much. Rackham, as a character , runs the risk of talking a little too long - but fortunately he's got the charm to keep the audience invested.

Yeah, one of the best shows and finales of all time, IMO.
 
Yeah, Flint was such a fascinatingly layered character that you find yourself both rooting for and against throughout the show. He is both the hero and the villain, and that makes sense since you have characters like Woodes Rogers who are in many ways noble and lawful and yet did horrible things like his personal favorite form of torture (which seriously might have been the most brutal torture I’ve ever seen on a TV show).

Even Silver may have some skeleton in his closet, as evidenced by his refusal to reveal his past to Flint. I read that they deliberately didn’t give him a backstory even privately because they wanted Silver, a man formed by his present, to contrast with Flint, a man formed by his past. But if you want to, you could still interpret Silver’s enigmatic nature to be shame over something in his past. I remember while watching it, and due to some comments Silver made throughout the show, that perhaps his avoidance of his past may be from serving on slave ships and after falling hard for Madi, he found himself unable to live with the fact that he engaged in the slave trade. I believe he mentioned serving in one at one point, though that ultimately may have been a lie.
 
Yeah, Flint was such a fascinatingly layered character that you find yourself both rooting for and against throughout the show. He is both the hero and the villain, and that makes sense since you have characters like Woodes Rogers who are in many ways noble and lawful and yet did horrible things like his personal favorite form of torture (which seriously might have been the most brutal torture I’ve ever seen on a TV show).

Even Silver may have some skeleton in his closet, as evidenced by his refusal to reveal his past to Flint. I read that they deliberately didn’t give him a backstory even privately because they wanted Silver, a man formed by his present, to contrast with Flint, a man formed by his past. But if you want to, you could still interpret Silver’s enigmatic nature to be shame over something in his past. I remember while watching it, and due to some comments Silver made throughout the show, that perhaps his avoidance of his past may be from serving on slave ships and after falling hard for Madi, he found himself unable to live with the fact that he engaged in the slave trade. I believe he mentioned serving in one at one point, though that ultimately may have been a lie.

Rogers was a great antagonist, he too was very layered and both heroic and noble in some ways and ruthless and cruel in others. The genius of the show was that his motivations, like all the other characters, made complete sense - and unlike GOT, the writers rarely subverted expectations.

I'm glad Silver's past never really became an issue, since his whole character was really an invention, in fact the way he came up through the crew was all about invention.

While you didn't know his story you knew what he was like as a person: cunning, opportunistic, loyal, capable of violence but only when necessary, he was the opposite of Flint in that he could put his concern for people ahead of his larger goals. Clearly he cared for Flint deeply, which is why he saves Flint from himself.

In the same way that we don't reliably know the Joker's past in the Dark Knight, but we still know what he's all about, Silver's actual past is less important than who he is and who he becomes as the show goes on.

Interesting that Billy ends up marooned on Skeleton Island, rather than Ben Gunn ( as in the novel ). I thought Billy had a great arc, he was one of the most moral and likeable of the pirates, until his fateful decision during the siege- when he became at odds with Flint, you knew things weren't going to go well for him. After that it was a 180 turn, into a ruthless pirate hunter who shoots down old friends while they're helpless. Maybe not murdering Madi was a sign that s Tony glimmer of the good man was still somewhere inside him.
 
Totally agree. It’s funny that you mention the Joker, because I always thought Luke Arnold looked like he could be Heath Ledger’s brother. It’s a shame that so many of the actors on this show haven’t gone on to other big projects. Black Sails had one of the strongest casts of any show I’ve seen; I’d say there wasn’t a weak link in the group. I know some people hate on Max but I liked her and sympathized with her, especially after the hell she went through early on in the show.

And yeah, Billy really takes a dark turn at the end. That really surprised me because up until he turns on Flint, he was arguably the most noble of the pirates. But he lets his hate for Flint consume him to the point where, like you said, he starts killing his former brothers. It’s a tragic fall and you just know he would have probably stayed a good person if he never got mixed up with Flint.
 
Totally agree. It’s funny that you mention the Joker, because I always thought Luke Arnold looked like he could be Heath Ledger’s brother. It’s a shame that so many of the actors on this show haven’t gone on to other big projects. Black Sails had one of the strongest casts of any show I’ve seen; I’d say there wasn’t a weak link in the group. I know some people hate on Max but I liked her and sympathized with her, especially after the hell she went through early on in the show.

And yeah, Billy really takes a dark turn at the end. That really surprised me because up until he turns on Flint, he was arguably the most noble of the pirates. But he lets his hate for Flint consume him to the point where, like you said, he starts killing his former brothers. It’s a tragic fall and you just know he would have probably stayed a good person if he never got mixed up with Flint.


Interestingly the actress who played Max turned up in season 5 of the Flash, as his daughter from the future - or something like that. Really going to lightweight stuff after the role of Max, who was a superb character in every sense. I always cheered for Max as she climbed her way from prostitute to Madam to mastermind and person of influence.

She saw the world for all its good and bad and just got on with things - she never gave in to self pity or became bitter at the world, arguably a stronger person than even Flint.
 
Yeah it made me a little sad to see that she’s a regular on Flash now. I mean, an actor has to work but I was hoping she would wind up on something that was a little more high-profile. At least Billy and Flint have done pretty well in their post-Sails careers.
 
Yeah it made me a little sad to see that she’s a regular on Flash now. I mean, an actor has to work but I was hoping she would wind up on something that was a little more high-profile. At least Billy and Flint have done pretty well in their post-Sails careers.


Just finished rewatching series 1 -3.

Some quick reflections

1) Flint and Eleanor Guthrie really are the villains of the story.

2) Silver's transformation over season 2 and 3 from weasely opportunist to committed and hardened pirate is brilliant.


2) Jessica Kennedy Parker is a terrific actress and super hot.
Max is still my favorite character - she and Eleanor are great examples of super strong female characters- up there with Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor for toughness and resolve - and neither of them use muscles or fighting skills to achieve massive results and wield great power.

3) Charles Vane..... borderline between villain and anti hero. At least he's honest and straight up in a way that Flint never is.


4)Billy is very much the same as Vane, honourable, although far less brutal. Probably the most likeable character even when he turns on the pirates- understandable because they turned on him first.

4) Mr De Groot is the MVP in almost every situation.

5) @Deck Rickard would like to hear your thoughts on this.... I've kind of reevaluated Jack Rackham.

His eloquence and charm kind of made me like him. But this time around I've really noticed his immense vanity, obsession with reputation and compulsion to be relevant - which actually ****s things up, both for himself and others.

All he cares about is his reputation, even moreso than he cares for Anne. In some ways that makes him the least likeable and worst of the pirates.

Vane, Flint, Silver( from s3 on) and Billy all have understandable motivations- Flint being the worst, who will murder friends to achieve his aims, which really boil down to his obsession with revenge against England ( he can't see that Nassau will never be its own place because ultimately the pirates are a bunch of morons)

But Rackham....well he screws up the carefully laid plans of others, and for what ? So that people will tell stories about him and his legend.

To me that seems to put him least amongst even the thieving scumbags, because he's driven by his inadequacies rather than any actual goals.

Possibly his love for Anne is his only redeeming feature.

What's your take on Rackham.
 
Interesting and accurate take, @Batmannerism. I remember early on, I couldn’t stand Jack because he was so foppish and wouldn’t last a minute if he took on practically anyone else in the series, but he grew on me over the course of the show. The bone that he shares with Anne is really powerful, especially after she realizes she’s a lesbian. They nevertheless stay loyal to each other even though their relationship has changed.

But you’re not wrong when you say that his primary motivation is his reputation and how he’ll eventually be written about and remembered. While I would agree that is petty, I think you also have to consider that a pirate’s reputation is everything, right? It’s what kept some ships from even engaging in battle. “Oh, **** it’s Blackbeard! Raise the white flag now!”

Although in Jack’s case, it also comes from a place of insecurity. He knows he’s not a good fighter and not a particularly effective leader. On the other hand, he is very pragmatic and rational in a way that many pirates are not (while smarter than most pirates, Flint refuses to see anything but his own way and usually doesn’t compromise). So maybe in a way, Jack represents the world’s political future… a world where you don’t have to be the best fighter or even the best military strategist; you just need to find ways to appeal to people and get them on your side.

All in all, I find Rackham to be a fascinating character. I was glad he made it to the end.
 
Interesting and accurate take, @Batmannerism. I remember early on, I couldn’t stand Jack because he was so foppish and wouldn’t last a minute if he took on practically anyone else in the series, but he grew on me over the course of the show. The bone that he shares with Anne is really powerful, especially after she realizes she’s a lesbian. They nevertheless stay loyal to each other even though their relationship has changed.

But you’re not wrong when you say that his primary motivation is his reputation and how he’ll eventually be written about and remembered. While I would agree that is petty, I think you also have to consider that a pirate’s reputation is everything, right? It’s what kept some ships from even engaging in battle. “Oh, **** it’s Blackbeard! Raise the white flag now!”

Although in Jack’s case, it also comes from a place of insecurity. He knows he’s not a good fighter and not a particularly effective leader. On the other hand, he is very pragmatic and rational in a way that many pirates are not (while smarter than most pirates, Flint refuses to see anything but his own way and usually doesn’t compromise). So maybe in a way, Jack represents the world’s political future… a world where you don’t have to be the best fighter or even the best military strategist; you just need to find ways to appeal to people and get them on your side.

All in all, I find Rackham to be a fascinating character. I was glad he made it to the end.

He's certainly entertaining, but there are times when he places his reputation and legacy above common sense ( in s3 he and Anne were free and clear with the gems, but he went back to get pardons - just so he could keep his name - and was arrested, I always felt that Rogers was too nice to him, and some torture was in order).

Of course in real life Rackham was captured, hanged and gibbetted. If he had quit while he was
ahead he might not have ended up that way.

Anne is a much more complicated character and she barely speaks. She's not very sympathetic, and murders people without hesitation, just for insulting her. However, she's utterly loyal to Jack, as she shows in s4 when she fights the huge soldier and needs months to recover.

Flint only cares about what people think in so much as it gets them to do what he wants them to do. Otherwise he's unconcerned.

What a great show, gets better with every watch.
 
Y'all got me excited about some news about a Treasure Island sequel lol

To this day I recommend Black Sails every time people ask me what to watch. Hands down one of my favorite series of all time.
 

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