State of Virginia considering bill to allow students to carry guns

[Tron5000]

In response to the increasing number of school shootings in recent years, as well as a lockdown at a Virginia college last week (and likely the Virginia Tech shootings last year) the Virginia General Assembly is considering a bill that would allow students aged 21 or old to possess and carry weapons on campus, provided they have a valid concealed-carry permit.

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=600&sid=1355701

Members of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus will join two General Assembly legislators Monday for a news conference.Delegate Robert G. Marshall, R-Manassas, and Delegate C. Todd Gilbert, R-Woodstock, have introduced bills that would allow faculty, staff and students to carry concealed handguns on college campuses with a valid Virginia concealed-carry permit.

House Bill 424, sponsored by Marshall, and House Bill 1371, sponsored by Gilbert, were left in committee and killed during the 2008 session.

“In the wake of further shootings around the country and the lockdown at Ferrum College here in Virginia, this legislation needs to be considered by the full House,” Marshall stated in an e-mail.

The news conference will be held in the wake of a campus lockdown this past Tuesday at Ferrum College, a private school located in Southwest Virginia. A housekeeper at the college reported seeing a man with a handgun in a dormitory. Authorities say they suspect the man intended to cause harm.

“Several professors have come to me asking to give them the tools to protect their students,” Marshall stated. “Potential killers need to know that Virginia’s colleges and universities are not ‘gun free zones’ where no one will be able to stop them from killing as many people as they can.”

According to the SCCC Web site the group boasts a membership of more than 19,000 college students, faculty members, parents and concerned citizens nationwide who seek change at the individual state policy rather than the federal legislation.

“The first step is to see ‘colleges’ removed from the lists of places listed as ‘off limits’ by the concealed carry laws in many states,” the site says.

“The next step is to see other states follow Utah's lead in prohibiting state colleges from enacting their own bans on concealed carry.”




...further articles can be found by typing "students concealed carry" in Google News and sorting by date.

 

[The Senator]

Great.

Encourage those who may actually consider shooting up a school the ability to carry a concealed weapon into a classroom full of somewhat unsuspecting people.

That's just what we need

 

[terry78]

What do the supporters of guns have to think about this? Going too far? Because I hear guys say that people should be allowed to carry guns in school, whether they're joking or not I don't know.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Great...like we really need a lotta dead bodies and blood on our hands.

 

[04nbod]

Will people never learn from tragedy? You give more people guns more people will get shot

 

[SuperFerret]

No, no, no... you guys don't get it. The guns are for the students to protect themselves from school shooters.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

Tha's whack jack!

 

[Mee]

In a related story- State of West Virginia considering bill to change it's name to "The Smart Virginia."

 

[turtlefocker]

Its kind of funny when you think of it...

 

[Tron5000]

I know several people that own guns (myself included). Many of them have concealed-carry permits, including my roommate, and they are some of the most responsible people I know. My cousin carries a gun in his car and prevented being carjacked by pulling his gun and scaring the guy away. In my experience, most people who own guns, practice shooting them, and go to the lengths of obtaining a concealed-carry permit do so not because they want to harm others, but because they want to prevent harm being done to themselves, their family, their friends, neighbors or strangers.

I believe it would be less likely for some kid to go into a classroom and open fire with the knowledge that there may be one or two people in there who are armed as well, and know how to use their firearms. And, in my opinion, had a few students been armed on the Virginia Tech campus when the shootings occurred last year, the casualty count likely would not have been as high as it was.

There are numerous stories of ordinary citizens preventing crimes by using their legally-owned firearms. In towns where it is actually the law that every household must own a gun (such as Kennesaw, GA), the crime rates are well below the national average. I think someone is less likely to open fire if they feel that it may be returned, and even if they do, perhaps they would not get as far as they would otherwise.

 

[The Senator]

I know several people that own guns (myself included). Many of them have concealed-carry permits, including my roommate, and they are some of the most responsible people I know. My cousin carries a gun in his car and prevented being carjacked by pulling his gun and scaring the guy away. In my experience, most people who own guns, practice shooting them, and go to the lengths of obtaining a concealed-carry permit do so not because they want to harm others, but because they want to prevent harm being done to themselves, their family, their friends, neighbors or strangers.

I believe it would be less likely for some kid to go into a classroom and open fire with the knowledge that there may be one or two people in there who are armed as well, and know who to use their firearms. And, in my opinion, had a few students been armed on the Virginia Tech campus when the shootings occurred last year, the casualty count likely would not have been as high as it was.

There are numerous stories of ordinary citizens preventing crimes by using their legally-owned firearms. In towns where it is actually the law that every household must own a gun (such as Kennesaw, GA), the crimes rate are well above the national average. I think someone is less likely to open fire if they feel that it may be returned, and even if they do, perhaps they would not get as far as they would otherwise.

The thing is though... just about every school shooter lately has had a death wish. They end up turning the gun on themselves in the very end. So I don't think the idea that others may be armed will stop them from trying to kill a mass group of people on a college campus to make a point.

You also have to assume that everyone in that room would be able to handle themselves rationally if a student started opening fire... some won't be able to react... others may... and some shooters may mistake another "good" shooter for the bad guy... so there's a lot more to this than "X opens fire on class room, Y fires back and kills X."

 

[terry78]

^I'm not too fond of that ****, man. Mostly because I've known way too many people get hurt and killed around where I live because some idiot owned a gun that shouldn't have. There are folks that can handle them legally, but that don't make me not like them any less, unfortunately.

 

[SuperFerret]

I've never liked guns, and it's not an anti-weapons thing either, although I agree the average idiot shouldn't be allowed to have one.

 

[Tron5000]

The thing is though... just about every school shooter lately has had a death wish. They end up turning the gun on themselves in the very end. So I don't think the idea that others may be armed will stop them from trying to kill a mass group of people on a college campus to make a point.

You also have to assume that everyone in that room would be able to handle themselves rationally if a student started opening fire... some won't be able to react... others may... and some shooters may mistake another "good" shooter for the bad guy... so there's a lot more to this than "X opens fire on class room, Y fires back and kills X."

I agree with the point that these kids have a death wish. They always end up killing themselves anyway. But if they are going to open fire, if someone in that classroom or one nearby has a firearm and enough faculties about them to use it correctly, perhaps the body count goes from 31 (as in the VT shootings) to 5.

The crazy kids are going to get their guns no matter what. They're going to do crazy things no matter what. But I am disturbed by the fact that the stable, responsible kids are prevented from defending themselves. I don't think only the bad guy should have a gun. That's an unfair fight.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

you know people now these days are gonna die because of their stupidity..think about it...

 

[The Senator]

I agree with the point that these kids have a death wish. They always end up killing themselves anyway. But if they are going to open fire, if someone in that classroom or one nearby has a firearm and enough faculties about them to use it correctly, perhaps the body count goes from 31 (as in the VT shootings) to 5.

The crazy kids are going to get their guns no matter what. They're going to do crazy things no matter what. But I am disturbed by the fact that the stable, responsible kids are prevented from defending themselves. I don't think only the bad guy should have a gun. That's an unfair fight.

If the eleven thousand students who go to my campus suddenly had the ability to carry a gun, I would feel less safe than if we weren't allowed to carry guns in the first place.

You also use the definition of "stable" and "responsible" for those who can't carry guns... but even the unstable and mentally irresponsible people will be able to carry guns on campus... so in some instances, the likelihood that someone may shoot another student -- perhaps because that other student called his girlfriend hot -- rises. And that bill doesn't prevent petty shootings from happening on college campuses, nor does it decrease the threat of violence. Yeah, the idea is spot-on. If someone carries a gun, someone else may be deterred from committing a violent act. But it doesn't erase the threat of violence or provide a logical way to at least reduce that threat by a sizable margin.

You know how you prevent campus shootings altogether? You make everyone who wants to purchase a gun undergo a psychological evaluation. If the Virginia Tech shooter or the NIU shooter had to undergo a psychological evaluation before purchasing their respective weapons, mark my words, these tragedies never would have happened.

 

[SuperFerret]

you know people now these days are gonna die because of their stupidity..think about it...

These days? Vaughn, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but people have been dying due to their stupidity ever since people could either die or be stupid.

 

[X-Punisher]

Yeah, this will end bad.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

These days? Vaughn, I hate to be the one to break this to you, but people have been dying due to their stupidity ever since people could either die or be stupid.

I know that... but I was just saying that regarding this issue alone, more people are gonna die because of their stupidity..

 

[Tron5000]

If the eleven thousand students who go to my campus suddenly had the ability to carry a gun, I would feel less safe than if we weren't allowed to carry guns in the first place.

You also use the definition of "stable" and "responsible" for those who can't carry guns... but even the unstable and mentally irresponsible people will be able to carry guns on campus... so in some instances, the likelihood that someone may shoot another student -- perhaps because that other student called his girlfriend hot -- rises. And that bill doesn't prevent petty shootings from happening on college campuses, nor does it decrease the threat of violence. Yeah, the idea is spot-on. If someone carries a gun, someone else may be deterred from committing a violent act. But it doesn't erase the threat of violence or provide a logical way to at least reduce that threat by a sizable margin.

You know how you prevent campus shootings altogether? You make everyone who wants to purchase a gun undergo a psychological evaluation. If the Virginia Tech shooter or the NIU shooter had to undergo a psychological evaluation before purchasing their respective weapons, mark my words, these tragedies never would have happened.

Not everyone purchases guns through legal means, though. If someone is set on causing harm to others, that person will find a way to get a gun. The psychological evaluation may reduce the number of people who purchase guns through legal means, but I have doubts whether it would be much of a deterrent to those individuals who are intent on causing chaos.

 

[Tron5000]

I believe that denying a person the right to protect themselves goes against the very idea of liberty. When you do not allow law-abiding citizens to own a firearm, then the only people who will have them will be the criminals (by definition). That creates quite a disadvantage.

 

[Buttman]

Such a bad idea.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

its like...okay. Lets give the whole world guns and kill each other. Well there ya have it, there goes the human race going into oblivion...

 

[The Senator]

I believe that denying a person the right to protect themselves goes against the very idea of liberty. When you do not allow law-abiding citizens to own a firearm, then the only people who will have them will be the criminals (by definition). That creates quite a disadvantage.

Then you should get rid of guns altogether, thereby putting everyone on the same playing field.

Or, you can accept that every so often, some idiot gets tons of guns and ammo because the local gun dealer thinks everyone should own a gun and therefore doesn't do extensive background checks... like the dealer who sold the guns to VT shooter... who also sold the guns to the NIU shooter...

Personally, I accept the fact that this doesn't happen so often, and think that's what everyone else should start to realize. My only suggestions are to find a way to make getting a gun far more difficult, or accept that these things are a rarity... not put guns in the hands of every single college student, as if to say it will prevent violence when you're giving people the means to commit violence.

 

[Tron5000]

its like...okay. Lets give the whole world guns and kill each other. Well there ya have it, there goes the human race going into oblivion...

No one is giving the whole world guns. People are allowed to own guns. The debate is over in which public places people are allowed to carry their guns legally.

I own guns. I don't hunt. I own guns for a single purpose: so that if someone ever breaks into my house, and tries to harm me, my girlfriend, or anyone who may be in my house, I can hopefully prevent that from happening. I am not willing to simply allow myself to be killed because someone decides that they want my big-screen.

The idea that people who own guns just go around shooting each other is, simply, ludicrous.