stephanie brown/spoiler/robin 4

[Robin91939]

I wanted to revisit this thread real quick.

For someone who seems to be dedicated to this character, the character of Stephanie Brown, you seem to be not very well versed or informed about her character. The sole purpose of this thread and "project" seems to be the want stick on the "sexism" argument and the feminine rights where they, frankly, don't apply.

Seriously, give it a break. I'm all about equal rights, feminism, etc (I'm a Clinton for President supporter for God Sake).

But, read the comics. Specifically the one that dealt with Stephanie's death. Her death set the tone, was a backdrop, and had a huge effect on the story Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood. In the story, which opens with Stephanie's funeral, Robin decides there is nothing left for him in Gotham now that he lost or "failed" Stephanie. He doesn't want to risk falling into the void that Bruce is in so he wants to get away. He's all "cried out" from mourning, Darla, his father and now Stephanie and you can see that the pain is really getting to him.

He travels to Bludhaven. Batgirl follows him there. Stephanie is referenced multiple times. She is Tim Drake's motivation for continuing his tenure as Robin, wanting to HONOR HER MEMORY and not let her and his father's death have been in vain.

He has a nightmare that features Stephanie, Darla and his father. Not to mention, Batgirl, in her inner monologue acknowledges that Stephanie was her only true friend. She marks the importance that Stephanie had to Tim, being not only a friend but a girl friend. Even the Penguin asks what happened to her, if she'd been killed, etc. It was a story that closed the book on Stephanie Brown. If you feel that wasn't the ending she deserved, so be it. But she had an ending.

After all, the point of a SUPPORTING character is to strengthen the main character. Robin is a main character. It is his title. Tim Drake is Robin, has been for nearly twenty years. Stephanie Brown's death is felt most by him, and this was an entire graphic novel about how he dealt with her death and the effect it had on him. Don't be ignorant and say that she was blatantly forgotten. Just because DC, Warner Brothers, and Batman refused to recognize her as a Robin and place her costume in the Batcave for all three issues of her service doesn't mean that it is sexist that if and when Tim Drake hangs up the costume his is held in esteem in the cave. He's been Robin for the better part of two decades. Jason Todd was Robin for nearly 7 years. This is completely different than THREE MONTHS! On top of that she was her own, independent hero- Spoiler. Huntress was Batgirl for a little while, if she died, would she be remembered as Batgril? Or Huntress? Exactly.

It's a question of role. Tim Drake is the hero of our story. Stephanie Brown was a great supporting character in his story about learning to be a hero. She is a missed character, but she was sent off. When she died in "End Game" it was a powerful moment that gripped me as a reader and it was visible that Batman was truly hurt. Batman is a character, like it or not, who won't die. The only way to defeat him is by killing his partners/allies. That's why Dick Grayson was shot by the Joker. Why Barbara was crippled by the Joker. Why Jim Gordon was shot. It's why Jason Todd was killed. It's why Catwoman was beaten by the Joker. It's even why Harvey was scarred and turned into Two-face (this is a loss of an ally and a defeat for Batman). It's why Tim's father was killed, why Darla was killed. And it was why Stephanie was killed. The supporting characters are the most vulnerable are hero's are. This kind of thing will keep on happening. (Captain America and Buckey, Spider-man and Mary Jane/Gwen Stacey, so on and so forth).


Tim has felt the effect of her death over the last two years and I think she has been properly honored.

-R

 

[anrrd_2]

you make a very good point. and let me say that im not "dedicated to the character" so much as i was put off by how and why it was done. no i am not very well versed in the character beyond a few issues... and i understand completely that supporting characters are going to fall prey to batmans enemies...the issue i have is that she was not treated (post mortum) in the same way as the others. her death served its purpose for the story and then she was completely disregarded (aside from a few appearences from beyond the grave). tim was her BF, and yet he showed very little grief beyond 1 or 2 issues; but when connor kent died he flipped out and tried to clone him? that doesnt sound like a very caring significant other to me...jason todd recieved a memorial in the batcave, but spoiler didnt deserve it? just a few things that bothered me...

 

[Robin91939]

Conner Kent was a clone to begin with, so it stands to reason he could be cloned again. Also, the higher ups at DC may have wanted a way to bring Conner back into the universe for Superman in some grand scheme, and thought that this was a way to do so. But yeah, he was a clone, why not clone him again.

Stephanie was Spoiler, why would Spoiler be honored in the Batcave? Batman and Robin (Sometimes Nightwing and Batgirl before she went nuts) are based out of the Batcave, not Spoiler, Azreal, Huntress, Ragman, etc. It's really just about that simple as to why she is not immortalized in the cave.

-R

 

[Mladen]

Stephanie was Spoiler, why would Spoiler be honored in the Batcave? Batman and Robin (Sometimes Nightwing and Batgirl before she went nuts) are based out of the Batcave, not Spoiler, Azreal, Huntress, Ragman, etc. It's really just about that simple as to why she is not immortalized in the cave.

-R

i've seen some people mention that Tim should have a memorial to her, not Bruce.
the batcave jason todd memorial is as much a personal tribute as it as a painful reminder that the lives of the robins/batgirls are his responsibility, and that there is a cost to his campaign of justice when he lapses in judgement. The individual inside the tribute costume probably isn't as important as what it symbolises (thats why having rows of them would take away from its importance as a constant reminder to Bruce).

As for Tim, Stephanie's death is what happens when he himself refuses to take the Robin mantle. It would be entirely appropriate for him to have a a stephanie memorial (something small) in his wing of the batcave to remind himself of the cost of stepping down from his duty as Robin... at least I think so.

 

[Robin91939]

i've seen some people mention that Tim should have a memorial to her, not Bruce.
the batcave jason todd memorial is as much a personal tribute as it as a painful reminder that the lives of the robins/batgirls are his responsibility, and that there is a cost to his campaign of justice when he lapses in judgement. The individual inside the tribute costume probably isn't as important as what it symbolises (thats why having rows of them would take away from its importance as a constant reminder to Bruce).

As for Tim, Stephanie's death is what happens when he himself refuses to take the Robin mantle. It would be entirely appropriate for him to have a a stephanie memorial (something small) in his wing of the batcave to remind himself of the cost of stepping down from his duty as Robin... at least I think so.

The most I could see, would be some artists including a patch or something small on his uniform that would remind him of her. Like the numbers of a deceased ball player a team will wear on their hat for a season or so. Something small. Or maybe a picture of her in his belt, or something more "boyfriendish". It would be a bit overkill/almost creepy/morbid to have a shrine to her in the cave. It would also make it harder for him to move on with his life because he'd been constantly attached to her memory.

I'm all for her being a part of the mythos still. And for him to remember her a lot, is not a problem.

-R

 

[Dirt Like Me]

Um...are you guys reading Gotham Underground? Because if not, then maybe you all should start because you might like it. Just saying.

Spoiler

At the end of the last issue it looked like she (Spoiler) was back, but they left it a cliffhanger. Obviously nothing is clear yet, and some of the solicits for later issues have called her "Violet", but I'm pretty sure that DiDio made a reference to it in one of his DC Nation columns, too. Either way, Tim is going to deal with some Stephanie-related issues

That's a Spoiler spoiler, by the way.

 

[Robin91939]

I just wanted to add a bit more to the fact that Stephanie has been dealt with:

Batman #635 (Under the Hood arc)

Alfred Monologue:
It's a place of near constant mourning, proverbial mirrors draped in pitch black cloth. But, due to recent events...I would say that this abode is steeped in darkness we will not soon escape. Ties have been severed. Familial ties. The myth seems more like a man. And death has visited this house...again. (A picture of a mourning Batman over Stephanie on her death bed).

Alfred's Monologue (Cont'd): He talks of another lost soldier. He talks of battlefields. He talks of a war. He does not allow himself to see it for what it is. A loss of someone he cares for. Another blow to an already very battered heart. (In reference to how Bruce is coping, or trying to cope, with Stephanie's death).

So, I just want to know if we could please abandon this sexism debate claiming that she has not been dealt with. It really gets me when people scream for equality when it is already there, and play the minority card first: (i.e. "it's because I'm black/gay/a woman/ Asian /etc)....It gets a little old when that is what we make our debates about.

-R