Stephen King's "IT" remake has found a writer - Part 4

[The Endless]

Slag, for example.

But no she wasn't portrayed that way I don't think. If you're talking about the scene of her sunbathing... then that was clearly from the boys POV. They're a bunch of losers who obviously get no attention from girls... And now there is a girl in their midst sunbathing in her underwear. It's perfectly natural for young teenagers with their hormines all over the place to be staring at her in amazement.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I know what it is. I knew what you were trying to say too. I didn't even realize that word was censored. But...it is. Our *mod powers* have no control over that.

But if someone, good intentions or not, tries to get around the censor, we need to delete it. It had nothing to do with your opinion, and don't take it so personally.

Except the censor is wrong. And the mod response to completely delete the post which makes very relevant points to the discussion of this film is wrong. The response from a mod looking to insult me for it when I've made no insult to anyone is wrong. This isn't personal, its principle.

 

[danoyse]

Oh, like what, skank shaming? Girl who has too much sex and therefore deserves to be ridiculed for it shaming? Are you serious? The word is used for a reason. The idea that your censor system is perfect and beyond criticism simply because you aren't interested in making the effort to make it better is ridiculous.

Report your post and make an official complaint about it. Don't derail a thread having a fit over it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I wouldn't say she was sexualised for the audience. She was from boys POV, but that's to be expected for me considering the situation and storyline.

I DID find her scene with the Pharmacist and the ones with her dad uncomfortable, but I am pretty sure you were meant to feel importable during them.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Slag, for example.

But no she wasn't portrayed that way I don't think. If you're talking about the scene of her sunbathing... then that was clearly from the boys POV. They're a bunch of losers who obviously get no attention from girls... And now there is a girl in their midst sunbathing in her underwear. It's perfectly natural for young teenagers with their hormines all over the place to be staring at her in amazement.

If my post wasn't deleted you'd see what I was talking about. It was any one scene, it was pretty much all of her scenes. And if I used the term "slag shaming" everyone would be like "what the hell is that?" Hell, I've never even heard of that. It's not the terminology for the issue.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Yes I did deliberately circumvent it because it was being implemented unreasonably. I understand the term can be used as a derogative against someone, just like many other words which aren't censored by this site, but that wasn't the context in which I was using it, which makes its implementation ridiculous, and that fact that I circumvented it entirely reasonable. Just because it is in place by the owner of the site does not make it beyond criticism. Yet, instead of using your mod powers to edit the post with the censor, you instead deleted the whole post entirely from a very relevant discussion about the portrayal of a 15 year old girl in the movie which this thread is dedicated to. So, you know...thats cool.

You think it's unreasonable so you decide to deliberately break the rules, and then expect me to go through editing the post bit by bit for you, like I said I should have just infracted you as you did what you did wilfully, yet I was trying to be reasonable and solve this calmly, your attitude makes that very difficult, which makes me wonder why I even bothered, but I'm sure on another day with another poster the approach would be appreciated, can't win them all.

My opinion isn't based on who will and won't agree with me on the forums of Superherherohype.com. Are we only allowed to post agreeable opinions here? Is that another rule from the owner of the site?

No, I'm just pointing out that while you made your statements in absolutes, it doesn't make them right so don't cop a superior attitude when others disagree.

 

[Kane52630]

Man this is a classic case of "When keeping it real goes wrong."

 

[Donner]

Dear lord.

 

[The Shape]

It'd be cool if the SHH system was somehow able to censor all of the words in Motown Marvel's posts.

 

[Matt Mortem]

Yeah, that's pretty much what happened. Thanks for the recap. I suppose next time I'll dilute my opinions with "maybe" "kinda" "sorta" so they aren't too strongly worded for the sensitive kids you have to babysit around here.

You're the only one getting angry right now. Other posters have made their thoughts on how Beverley is portrayed calmly. You're the only one freaking out. Chill. It's just a movie.

I think Bev was portrayed very well and very realistically from the boys POV. Of course the boys are going to stare. They're all gonna have their schoolyard crushes. It's natural. Also, if you actually watch and pay attention to the film you'd see that Bev is the strongest of them. She doesn't fear Pennywise. She's the first to hurt him. She strikes back at her abusive father. I don't see what's so one dimensional and terrible about that portrayal. Sure, you could make the argument that her getting taken by Pennywise damsels her, but it was the filmmakers trying to use Bev as the person that brings the Losers together without the extremely taboo scene they omitted from the books.

 

[Motown Marvel]

You think it's unreasonable so you decide to deliberately break the rules, and then expect me to go through editing the post bit by bit for you, like I said I should have just infracted you as you did what you did wilfully, yet I was trying to be reasonable and solve this calmly, your attitude makes that very difficult, which makes me wonder why I even bothered, but I'm sure on another day with another poster the approach would be appreciated, can't win them all.

No, I'm just pointing out that while you made your statements in absolutes, it doesn't make them right so don't cop a superior attitude when others disagree.

I'm sorry, was something wrong with my response to this here post which you found necessary to delete? Maybe it goes against rules for being "off topic"? If that were the case, then you should of PM'd me instead of confronting me about it in this thread. So, perhaps this post of yours should be delete too. Unless the mods are above the rules which you've been holding me to today.

 

[Hunter Rider]

I'm sorry, was something wrong with my response to this here post which you found necessary to delete? Maybe it goes against rules for being "off topic"? If that were the case, then you should of PM'd me instead of confronting me about it in this thread. So, perhaps this post of yours should be delete too. Unless the mods are above the rules which you've been holding me to today.

I didn't delete it actually, but it was deleted because this was going nowhere fast, you have a beligerant attitude that clearly most in this thread aren't digging, and instead of being about the movie you are now center stage doing your faux rebel act, just drop it and repost your post without dodging the censor like you should have done in the first place.

 

[danoyse]

I wouldn't say she was sexualised for the audience. She was from boys POV, but that's to be expected for me considering the situation and storyline.

I DID find her scene with the Pharmacist and the ones with her dad uncomfortable, but I am pretty sure you were meant to feel importable during them.

I didn't think she was sexualized for the audience either. There was a pretty audible "ewww" coming from the audience during the pharmacist scene both times I saw the movie, and it was meant to get that reaction. She wasn't trying to be sexy for the audience, she was exploiting the fact that she knew the pharmacist was a creep. And he was.

And I don't think the boys watching her sunbathing was sexualized for the audience. It was meant to be from the boys' perspective, and they were 13-year-old boys, they can't help it at that age, it's just what they do. The scene wasn't trying to show how "sexy" Bev was, it was showing the boys' reaction to seeing her sunbathing, and I thought it was pretty typical of their age, and actually kind of sweet (not that they should leer at another girl, but that they couldn't help themselves).

Both times I saw it, I heard a few women laugh at the scene when she's trying to figure out the tampon aisle, and trying not to let the other girls see her. I think it was a moment every teenage girl went through at some point or another.

I didn't love the whole bit where she needed rescuing at the end, but I thought she was overall a great character. My crowd cheered when she decked her father with the top of the toilet tank.

There's a good article about Beverly here that I think sums her up pretty well:

IT TELLS A STORY ABOUT THE VERY REAL FEARS OF WOMANHOOD

 

[Motown Marvel]

You're the only one getting angry right now. Other posters have made their thoughts on how Beverley is portrayed calmly. You're the only one freaking out. Chill. It's just a movie.

My posts were made calmly and respectfully. Then they were deleted. Not because of their content, but because of a word necessary to the issue being discussed. I'm not freaking out, I'm responding in kind to the moderators conduct.

 

[Mad Ones]

Aside from the film being overly mediocre at best, was anyone else weirded out that the 15 year old girl was sexualized by every single character in the movie? (except for Pennywise, oddly enough.) I mean, other than the fact she's the female lead in the film and it'd be nice if women on screen could be represented responsibly. But, my god, she's 15 and her characterization isn't much beyond being sexually desired or sexually shamed by everyone and then being reduced to a one dimensional damsel in distress who is saved by a boy fulfilling his fantasy with her without consent...and we are supposed to accept this as being romantic or something?

I'm assuming the last few pages of this thread have been reaction to this post, but I agree. The movie depicted her father's sexual abuse, only to show all of the boys staring at her by the lake only a couple minutes later. And having her saved by a kiss when she was unconscious, and showing her waking up and being thankful for it, sends all kinds of creepy messages. The movie is about a boys club and feels like it was made by a boys club.

 

[Matt Mortem]

I didn't think she was sexualized for the audience either. There was a pretty audible "ewww" coming from the audience during the pharmacist scene both times I saw the movie, and it was meant to get that reaction. She wasn't trying to be sexy for the audience, she was exploiting the fact that she knew the pharmacist was a creep. And he was.

And I don't think the boys watching her sunbathing was sexualized for the audience. It was meant to be from the boys' perspective, and they were 13-year-old boys, they can't help it at that age, it's just what they do. The scene wasn't trying to show how "sexy" Bev was, it was showing the boys' reaction to seeing her sunbathing, and I thought it was pretty typical of their age, and actually kind of sweet (not that they should leer at another girl, but that they couldn't help themselves).

Both times I saw it, I heard a few women laugh at the scene when she's trying to figure out the tampon aisle, and trying not to let the other girls see her. I think it was a moment every teenage girl went through at some point or another.

I didn't love the whole bit where she needed rescuing at the end, but I thought she was overall a great character. My crowd cheered when she decked her father with the top of the toilet tank.

There's a good article about Beverly here that I think sums her up pretty well:

IT TELLS A STORY ABOUT THE VERY REAL FEARS OF WOMANHOOD

Great post danoyse.

 

[Motown Marvel]

I didn't delete it actually, but it was deleted because this was going nowhere fast, you have a beligerant attitude that clearly most in this thread aren't digging, and instead of being about the movie you are now center stage doing your faux rebel act, just drop it and repost your post without dodging the censor like you should have done in the first place.

My original post was a discussion which others were engaging in, whether they agreed with my opinion or not. Some engaged more responsibly than others. There is nothing faux about my "act". I was very much on topic talking about the movie until the mods came and disrupted that conversation. My original post was thought out and composed respectfully. I would love for it to be reposted, but I can't just copy and paste it to continue the discussion because it was deleted. If your mod powers have access to it, by all means send it to me so I can re-post it. It is a discussion which I would very much like to engage people in whether they agree with me or not.

 

[Mad Ones]

The sunbathing scene just reinforces a "boys will be boys" mentality that women are on display for men to gawk at. For the film to do that right after showing Bev's dad's entitlement to her body was really sketchy. Ya, this movie was about losers and I guess their misogyny and constant jokes about women's bodies reinforces how they are losers. But they are the heroes of the story and we're supposed to like them for the movie to work. Bev acts on behalf of all women since she's the only girl in endorsing their behaviour, which really isn't ok.

 

[Hunter Rider]

My original post was a discussion which others were engaging in, whether they agreed with my opinion or not. Some engaged more responsibly than others. There is nothing faux about my "act". I was very much on topic talking about the movie until the mods came and disrupted that conversation. My original post was thought out and composed respectfully. I would love for it to be reposted, but I can't just copy and paste it to continue the discussion because it was deleted. If your mod powers have access to it, by all means send it to me so I can re-post it. It is a discussion which I would very much like to engage people in whether they agree with me or not.

No one disrupted the conversation, you don't make the rules, neither do I, but you will respect them and I actually went easy on it, I deleted and told you not to circumvent the censor, that's not disrupting, you were wrong and I did what I'm supposed to do minus the infraction. Now I can access your post and will PM you it.

 

[Flint Marko]

Oh man, this thread....

 

[danoyse]

I'm assuming the last few pages of this thread have been reaction to this post, but I agree. The movie depicted her father's sexual abuse, only to show all of the boys staring at her by the lake only a couple minutes later. And having her saved by a kiss when she was unconscious, and showing her waking up and being thankful for it, sends all kinds of creepy messages. The movie is about a boys club and feels like it was made by a boys club.

But it didn't. I'm a woman, and while I didn't love the whole rescue plot at the end, I thought overall she was a very strong character.

There was a huge difference between what her father did, and what the boys were doing at the lake. Her father saw a child he wanted to abuse and control. He was angry at any sign that she was growing up, and demanded that she remind him that he was still his little girl. It made her terrified of everything that comes with growing up (the way she was hiding the tampons when she came in the house). Cutting her hair was a rebellion so she wouldn't look like a little girl anymore.

The boys, they didn't see a little girl anymore. They saw a young woman...and as boys do at that age, they revered what they saw. Unlike her father, they approved and welcomed it. That's the complete opposite of her father. They were noticing things for the first time, and while no...they shouldn't leer at a young woman sunbathing...part of growing up does involve raging hormones, so they were just doing what boys would do at that age (and knew they shouldn't - notice how quickly they all looked away when she spotted them watching).

I didn't mind the kiss either. I felt at that point it was as much Ben's story as it was Bev's (and I also remember how head over heels Ben was for her in the book too), that I thought it was really his moment. He really was the romantic in the group, and I though that was pretty sweet. He wasn't taking advantage of her being incapacitated, he was trying to save her.

 

[Kane52630]

But it didn't. I'm a woman, and while I didn't love the whole rescue plot at the end, I thought overall she was a very strong character.

There was a huge difference between what her father did, and what the boys were doing at the lake. Her father saw a child he wanted to abuse and control. He was angry at any sign that she was growing up, and demanded that she remind him that he was still his little girl. It made her terrified of everything that comes with growing up (the way she was hiding the tampons when she came in the house). Cutting her hair was a rebellion so she wouldn't look like a little girl anymore.

The boys, they didn't see a little girl anymore. They saw a young woman...and as boys do at that age, they revered what they saw. Unlike her father, they approved and welcomed it. That's the complete opposite of her father. They were noticing things for the first time, and while no...they shouldn't leer at a young woman sunbathing...part of growing up does involve raging hormones, so they were just doing what boys would do at that age (and knew they shouldn't - notice how quickly they all looked away when she spotted them watching).

I didn't mind the kiss either. I felt at that point it was as much Ben's story as it was Bev's (and I also remember how head over heels Ben was for her in the book too), that I thought it was really his moment. He really was the romantic in the group, and I though that was pretty sweet. He wasn't taking advantage of her being incapacitated, he was trying to save her.

All of this.

 

[Mad Ones]

Bev's only option in the world of It is to be desired by men. She is saved through that same desiring. Not all boys gawk at girls at that age. Every single boy in this movie did though.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Here's my original post, compliments of Hunter Rider:

Yes, teens are horny and I get the boys initially leering at her. That in itself is not a problem. Though it'd be nice if their relationship with her evolved to something beyond being an object of desire, which it never does seeing as the last scene with her is the boy kissing her. Sexuality is a very real aspect of everybody's life, particularly in a coming of age tale..which this sort of is. And that could of been a great aspect of the film if it were handled maturely by the writers. And yes, she does show moments of strength where she is capable of being more than a sexual object, but despite those moments, the characters still never treat her as anything more than a sexual object. And all of those moments of strength are completely undermined at the end of the film where she is reduced to just being another damsel in distress who needs saved by boys.

The problem is this:

Do you think the 15 year old girl could of been introduced without *skank* shaming?
Do you think the 15 year old girl could of been an outsider, like the boys, without *skank* shaming?
Do you think the basis of the 15 year old girl's character could not of been rumors of her sexuality?
Do you think the 15 year old girl could of had a troubled home life without being sexualized by her dad?
Do you think the the 15 year old girl could of helped the boys at the pharmacy without being the flirty sexual object of the pharmacist?
Do you think the 15 year old girl could of not been condemned by the boy's mother without being *skank* shamed?
Do you think the the 15 year old girl could not of been inexplicably saved by the boys without being sexualized beyond her consent?

This is just cheap, juvenile, and sexist writing rooted in male fantasy. If the only way you know how to write a girl being terrorized by awful people is by attacking her sexually, then that is some messed up misogynistic writing. The character does not exist without her being sexualized. How come none of this applies to the boys? How come they're not so strongly sexualized by anyone else in the movie? This was done because she is female and females largely can't exist in films without being sexual objects for the male gaze. This would be a problem for any female character, but it's particularly troubling due to her age. It's even more troubling that people will still have a problem with this post because this view of women has been so normalized in our society in no small part because of their perverse representation by men in the media.

 

[The Shape]

Thank God for Hunter retrieving your post from the abyss. It was really important that we all had the chance to read it.