Stephen King's "IT" remake has found a writer - Part 4

[Motown Marvel]

Because she was about to die.

So, the boy was like "hey, this chick who I've been crushing on is about to die...I should probably kiss her." That doesn't make any sense, nor does it make any less creepy. It merely shows that instead of making an effort, any effort, to save someone who's life he respects, he'd rather use the opportunity to indulge his sexual fantasy towards her while she's unconsciously dying...which is creepy and wrong.

Like I said, I didn't love the 'needed to be rescued' bit, but she did still hold her own against Pennywise for as long as she could in the cistern. And again, Ben's decision to kiss her wasn't practice for his future career as a date rapist, it was because he loved her and was trying to reach her and save her.

I'm glad we can agree on her role as the damsel in distress being less than desirable. And as I've recognized before, she does have moments of strength. Except I believe they are undermined by her eventual role as the stereotypical damsel in distress. And thats great the dude loved her, but there was no indication the feelings were mutual. She was kind to him and appreciated him as a friend, nothing more. And there is no reason to believe his actions would save her. There was nothing prior in the movie to indicate as much to the characters. That makes it just bad writing, beyond the bad message it sends. And I'm sorry, but kissing on someone without their conscious consent is kinda date rape-y to me.

 

[Greens]

Of course the kiss is sexual. The sex part is beyond those kids at this moment, but at its core it is sexual. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it.

 

[Matt Mortem]

So, the boy was like "hey, this chick who I've been crushing on is about to die...I should probably kiss her." That doesn't make any sense, nor does it make any less creepy. It merely shows that instead of making an effort, any effort, to save someone who's life he respects, he'd rather use the opportunity to indulge his sexual fantasy towards her while she's unconsciously dying...which is creepy and wrong.

Here you go:

And Ben kissing her made even more sense when you remember he's a young boy with a crush who spends all his time in the library. Of course his mind would go to the "true loves kiss breaks the spell" kind of thing. He's a kid. It felt like a natural part of his character.

 

[danoyse]

So, the boy was like "hey, this chick who I've been crushing on is about to die...I should probably kiss her." That doesn't make any sense, nor does it make any less creepy. It merely shows that instead of making an effort, any effort, to save someone who's life he respects, he'd rather use the opportunity to indulge his sexual fantasy towards her while she's unconsciously dying...which is creepy and wrong.

That's not what happened at all, but...you be you.

I'm glad we can agree on her role as the damsel in distress being less than desirable.

I've been saying that the whole time.

And as I've recognized before, she does have moments of strength. Except I believe they are undermined by her eventual role as the stereotypical damsel in distress. And thats great the dude loved her, but there was no indication the feelings were mutual. She was kind to him and appreciated him as a friend, nothing more. And there is no reason to believe his actions would save her. There was nothing prior in the movie to indicate as much to the characters. That makes it just bad writing, beyond the bad message it sends. And I'm sorry, but kissing on someone without their conscious consent is kinda date rape-y to me.

That's not what date rape is.

 

[The Endless]

If actual women aren't offended by Bev's portrayal, and I've honestly seen zero complaints... then honestly, WTF has it got to do with you? If you genuinely find it problematic, but women don't... what then?

Maybe this is all an act or maybe you're the sexist one because you think women can't speak for themselves or form their own opinions?

 

[Motown Marvel]

You might want to try the same.

Its kind of what I've been doing?

You're hardly an easy person to engage in discussion with, you twist every little thing to suit your argument, and exaggerate every issue to make it seem a thousand times worse than it is, you take offense at every given opportunity and go out of your way to interpret things in the worst way possible. You haven't been trying to have a discussion, you've been trying to start an argument by being rude to anyone who disagrees with you and actively antagonizing the mods when they showed up, nothing more.

Just because my opinion isn't in agreement with the majority here, yet I state it confidently anyways, does not mean I've been rude to anyone. I've started my opinions respectfully and in return there are responses from people simply attempting to insult me with tired retort such as "SJW" and "triggered".

Already did that. Here you go:

The incoherent rage you're approaching this discussion with has lead to you ignoring the well made points and posts by many in this forum. Vomitting up nonsense about sexual objectification without ever responding to the counter points presented to you makes you look very childish. You've plugged your ears, stomped your feet and bellowed the same argument over and over.

You're right, as it turns out I did not respond specifically to your posts. But I'm pretty sure my responses to all the other posts I've been trying to keep up with are the same responses which your posts deserve. I don't feel the need to repeat the same points to everyones individual posts. Regardless, none of it makes your tired and unoriginal attempts at insulting my opinions appropriate. And I do believe my opinion on this issue has been pretty thoughtfully and respectfully presented. The fact you characterize that as incoherent rage is just ridiculous.

 

[Greens]

So, the boy was like "hey, this chick who I've been crushing on is about to die...I should probably kiss her." That doesn't make any sense, nor does it make any less creepy. It merely shows that instead of making an effort, any effort, to save someone who's life he respects, he'd rather use the opportunity to indulge his sexual fantasy towards her while she's unconsciously dying...which is creepy and wrong.

It's a ****ing movie, not a documentary. Sometimes characters do something to signify a theme, like love and brotherhood.

That makes it just bad writing, beyond the bad message it sends. And I'm sorry, but kissing on someone without their conscious consent is kinda date rape-y to me.

I doubt there are going to be many situations where a 12 year old boy will find their crush paralyzed in a sewer. Even if a boy gets the "wrong message" from this, which is monumentally stupid because since when did horror movies become arbiters of morality, so what? Everyone will get over it. Boys are not dementors.

 

[danoyse]

Its kind of what I've been doing?

Not really, no.

Just because my opinion isn't in agreement with the majority here, yet I state it confidently anyways, does not mean I've been rude to anyone. I've started my opinions respectfully and in return there are responses from people simply attempting to insult me with tired retort such as "SJW" and "triggered".

You've been rude to everyone. That's not even up for debate.

You're right, as it turns out I did not respond specifically to your posts. But I'm pretty sure my responses to all the other posts I've been trying to keep up with are the same responses which your posts deserve. I don't feel the need to repeat the same points to everyones individual posts. Regardless, none of it makes your tired and unoriginal attempts at insulting my opinions appropriate. And I do believe my opinion on this issue has been pretty thoughtfully and respectfully presented. The fact you characterize that as incoherent rage is just ridiculous.

No, it's pretty incoherent rage at this point...

 

[Matt Mortem]

For Motown I think rude means disagreeing that Ben kissing Bev means he's a date rapist.

 

[Greens]

Remember, this is this guy's favorite Family Guy character

 

[DarthSkywalker]

On the Bev stuff. I did find it rather funny and odd that the first 45 mins or so was very keen on us knowing she is a girl and that all the males of all ages in this town wanted to have sex with her. Some more creepy then others obviously. Everyone she interacted with was all about that, and this includes the few women she interacts with. Heck her first scene is a shaming from other girls. I also felt like [BLACKOUT]Damsel in Distress/True Love's Kiss[/BLACKOUT] was an utter crap change.

All that being said, the vast majority of it fit very well imo, and I love the early interaction with her and the rest of the group. Her role in the group is great, and I love how she is the ultimate "Ride or Die" girl. She stepped up when others couldn't. Though it did make her choice to walk away at the end odd. Didn't seem like her.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Of course the kiss is sexual. The sex part is beyond those kids at this moment, but at its core it is sexual. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it.

There is nothing wrong with indulging in sexuality as long as all parties involved consent to it. Which was not the case here.

That's not what happened at all, but...you be you.

Uh, you were the one who characterized it as much. You said he only did it because she was dying. Which is a messed up reason, and time, to kiss someone who has never shown any indication they'd consent to such behavior.

I've been saying that the whole time.

Yes. I know. And I haven't taken issue with it because I agree with it.

That's not what date rape is.

Well, to be fair, I only said it was kinda date rape-y. But, date rape is when someone you know sexually engages you without your consent, or does not stop when you deny consent, or when they assume consent when you are not of mind to give it...which is pretty much what happened in the film. Not that I'm even looking to characterize it as much, which is why I never brought up the term date rape to begin with.

If actual women aren't offended by Bev's portrayal, and I've honestly seen zero complaints... then honestly, WTF has it got to do with you? If you genuinely find it problematic, but women don't... what then?

Maybe this is all an act or maybe you're the sexist one because you think women can't speak for themselves or form their own opinions?

Um, first off, you don't need to be a woman to take issue with women's rights. Same with how you don't need to be of a minority race to take issue with racism. Nor does being of a minority race, or a women, make you exempt from being complicit in systems which lead to racism, misogyny, and rape culture. Nor are women not taking issue with this. It was not only the first discussion my female friend and I had as we left the theater, but there are also articles online about the poor characterization of Bev in the film.

 

[Motown Marvel]

Not really, no.

I've been engaging in point/counter point discussions about an issue with those who have had valid retort to my opinions. I've done so without resorting to immature name calling. Unlike many folks who have just responded to my opinions simply with childish insults.

You've been rude to everyone. That's not even up for debate.

The fact that I disagree with peoples opinions on this issue is not being rude. I've disagreed with others very respectfully. And be careful about speaking in absolutes, Hunter Rider doesn't like that.

No, it's pretty incoherent rage at this point...

I mean, that's one irresponsible way to read it.

Frankly, I've respected your opinions on this issue which you've posted in here. Not only because your opinions were better thought out and constructed than most others, but also because you are a woman and I value your views on this being a women's issue, even if we do disagree on points in the end. It is why I've responded to your posts respectfully with my own opinions and beliefs in hopes we could have a real discussion about it, regardless of where our opinions differ. But seeing posts like this where you resort to the immature internet mentality of others around here is disappointing.

 

[danoyse]

There is nothing wrong with indulging in sexuality as long as all parties involved consent to it. Which was not the case here.

Were you even watching this movie?

Um, first off, you don't need to be a woman to take issue with women's rights. Same with how you don't need to be of a minority race to take issue with racism. Nor does being of a minority race, or a women, make you exempt from being complicit in systems which lead to racism, misogyny, and rape culture. Nor are women not taking issue with this. It was not only the first discussion my female friend and I had as we left the theater, but there are also articles online about the poor characterization of Bev in the film.

Did you read this one?

IT TELLS A STORY ABOUT THE VERY REAL FEARS OF WOMANHOOD

 

[Art Vandelay]

Ya, this movie was about losers and I guess their misogyny and constant jokes about women's bodies reinforces how they are losers.

No, it reinforces that they are preteen boys.

 

[danoyse]

I've been engaging in point/counter point discussions about an issue with those who have had valid retort to my opinions. I've done so without resorting to immature name calling. Unlike many folks who have just responded to my opinions simply with childish insults.

The fact that I disagree with peoples opinions on this issue is not being rude. I've disagreed with others very respectfully. And be careful about speaking in absolutes, Hunter Rider doesn't like that.

I mean, that's one irresponsible way to read it.

Frankly, I've respected your opinions on this issue which you've posted in here. Not only because your opinions were better thought out and constructed than most others, but also because you are a woman and I value your views on this being a women's issue, even if we do disagree on points in the end. It is why I've responded to your posts respectfully with my own opinions and beliefs in hopes we could have a real discussion about it, regardless of where our opinions differ. But seeing posts like this where you resort to the immature internet mentality of others around here is disappointing.

Do you even read your own posts?

 

[Motown Marvel]

Anyways, I'm just repeating the same point over and over now. So, I'm out. Y'all's have fun without me. I'm sure you will.

 

[Finarfiniel]

Frankly, I've respected your opinions on this issue which you've posted in here. Not only because your opinions were better thought out and constructed than most others, but also because you are a woman and I value your views on this being a women's issue, even if we do disagree on points in the end. It is why I've responded to your posts respectfully with my own opinions and beliefs in hopes we could have a real discussion about it, regardless of where our opinions differ. But seeing posts like this where you resort to the immature internet mentality of others around here is disappointing.

You've respected her opinions? Really? I see no evidence of that. I do see you however throwing out the whole 'I want to have a real discussion' nonsense time and time again though even though this is exactly what people in this thread are already doing (they're discussing why they disagree with you) and yet you clearly don't want to have a 'real discussion', you simply want to argue and act hard done by because you can't seem to handle people disagreeing with you.

 

[Donner]

Anyways, I'm just repeating the same point over and over now. So, I'm out. Y'all's have fun without me. I'm sure you will.

Thank f***. It's one thing to have an opinion, it's another thing to insist that others share your opinion because it's somehow righteous.

If someone isn't offended by something, do you have the right to insist that they should be? If the majority of women like Bev and her characterization, then you can go away with your superior opinions of *skank* shaming in the movie. You don't get to be offended on behalf of someone else if they're not. K?

 

[FTCBIRDMAN]

This has got to be an attempt at trolling. A 13 year old boy who has never kissed a girl in his life believes in the fairy tale ending of "true loves kiss" gives the girl of his dreams a gentle mouth closed kiss in the hopes of waking her up and it's date-rapey? Absolute rubbish

 

[Spider-Fan83]

^ya, some girl in my theater way over reacted to that scene too... she was like "OMG what is he doing, nooo, why..." then was like... "wait that worked?"

I hate when people talk during the movie in the first place, but, that seemed like a odd reaction in general

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It definitely wasn't date-rapey. What it was, was a disservice to her character. I also feel like if they follow the book in terms of who she ends up with, I am going to be disappointed. Because the interactions with Will and Ben were... yeah.

 

[MAN O STEEL]

Welcome to 2017, where the most innocent character of the Losers Club is, at 12 already a straight white male rapist pig because he kissed a girl.

 

[danoyse]

Good lord, this thread today...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Welcome to 2017, where the most innocent character of the Losers Club is, at 12 already a straight white male rapist pig because he kissed a girl.

Ben is not the most innocent.