Student Films

Cmill216

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Has anyone ever watched a student film that wasn't completely pretentious, trying-too-hard to have depth and meaning, pure wannabe indie garbage? Or maybe the, "I can't really make an original legit action drama, so I'm going to get some friends and a DV camera and make my own Tarantino-esque drug flick" pieces of dung?

You know, those deep introspections, with obscure underground progressive rock, and maybe a cigarette or two?

What the hell is going on out here?
 
They are few and far between. That's because film students can tell you just about anything you want to know about the technical side of the craft, but if you were to ask them a question pertaining to the liberal arts, you would likely get a lot of blank faces. Film school teaches technique but it doesn't do much to teach one how to write a good story or how to tell it. So most film students tend to copy what they know while they try to figure out what they want to say. As for pretentions... what the hell did you expect from a college student?
 
I'm not a student, but I'm an independent filmmaker and I do see where you're coming from. I make indy action films for almost zero budget and every time people assume I'm making a "Tarantino" esque crime drama (personally, I try to model myself after Mann and Scorsese and think QT is overrated.)

The thing that must be understood is there's a difference between a film "trying too hard" and actually having depth to it's story. I viewed a film recently that fell into the first category. It was ok, don't get me wrong, but it was clear the filmmakers were going a little too far to be different and edgy.
 
Has anyone ever watched a student film that wasn't completely pretentious, trying-too-hard to have depth and meaning, pure wannabe indie garbage? Or maybe the, "I can't really make an original legit action drama, so I'm going to get some friends and a DV camera and make my own Tarantino-esque drug flick" pieces of dung?

You know, those deep introspections, with obscure underground progressive rock, and maybe a cigarette or two?

What the hell is going on out here?

Cut student films some slack, art is hard, to become an artist it takes a lot of time and devotion to one's craft and everything you start with sucks. As a wanna-be screen-writer, film person, etc... With the script the first thing you realize is that you can't simply tell people straight out what your trying to say, you need to the story express it, you need to create real characters that express a theme. Then you realize what your writing is simply piecing together things you've seen from your favorite movies, and you need start writing what you know, and when you do that you can apply it to anything. This all sounds like common sense but it takes time, going through all the necessary steps till you finally achieve a semi-good product.

On the film-making side of things, film is such a complicated art. You have to deal with actors, lighting, camera angles, editing, special effects, etc. That as a student film-maker it's a daunting tasks and more often than not people retreat to what they know and develop there own style from there. Cut students some slack there just learning...

Of course my route is kind of focus on the writing and expand from there. I haven't picked up a camera since the summer, and been writing non-stop. As a freshman in college I'm a double major in English/Film Media. Why? Because I see more value in discovering the root of stories rather than copying a copy since that's all writers do. They take common plot devices place there own spin on them and then imbue there own philosophy of life into it. Hence why I find an english degree more valuable than a degree in film since I want to be a story-teller and my favorite medium happens to be film. Then of course the double major is there so I'm well informed on the technical aspect and the study of film. It's also a hell of a lot cheaper than going my state university instead of going somewhere else :up:
 
Cut student films some slack, art is hard, to become an artist it takes a lot of time and devotion to one's craft and everything you start with sucks. As a wanna-be screen-writer, film person, etc... With the script the first thing you realize is that you can't simply tell people straight out what your trying to say, you need to the story express it, you need to create real characters that express a theme. Then you realize what your writing is simply piecing together things you've seen from your favorite movies, and you need start writing what you know, and when you do that you can apply it to anything. This all sounds like common sense but it takes time, going through all the necessary steps till you finally achieve a semi-good product.

On the film-making side of things, film is such a complicated art. You have to deal with actors, lighting, camera angles, editing, special effects, etc. That as a student film-maker it's a daunting tasks and more often than not people retreat to what they know and develop there own style from there. Cut students some slack there just learning...

Of course my route is kind of focus on the writing and expand from there. I haven't picked up a camera since the summer, and been writing non-stop. As a freshman in college I'm a double major in English/Film Media. Why? Because I see more value in discovering the root of stories rather than copying a copy since that's all writers do. They take common plot devices place there own spin on them and then imbue there own philosophy of life into it. Hence why I find an english degree more valuable than a degree in film since I want to be a story-teller and my favorite medium happens to be film. Then of course the double major is there so I'm well informed on the technical aspect and the study of film. It's also a hell of a lot cheaper than going my state university instead of going somewhere else :up:

Wow. You actually sound a lot like me. :huh: :wow:

Though, I haven't picked up a camera in over a year after directing a no budget short and a $3,000 short in a span of five months.

The thing is, a lot of student shorts I run into fail to tell even remotely interesting stories, instead relying on these "reaching" themes that are presented through strings of images, metaphors, blah blah blah. In short, many narrative student films just aren't very good narratives. And many that I view that do actually tell a complete story tend to bite off of everything they've sucked up and soaked in over their years in film school.

It's just amazing to me. Film students tend to be the most hypercritical people, and yet they go out and do the very contrived and trite things they spend their college lives dissecting and dissing.

Maybe some slack should be cut. Sure. Fair enough. But we gotta step our game up. With all of the technology and sources of inspiration available to young filmmakers out there, the quality of the art has got to improve.
 
Wow. You actually sound a lot like me. :huh: :wow:

Though, I haven't picked up a camera in over a year after directing a no budget short and a $3,000 short in a span of five months.

The thing is, a lot of student shorts I run into fail to tell even remotely interesting stories, instead relying on these "reaching" themes that are presented through strings of images, metaphors, blah blah blah. In short, many narrative student films just aren't very good narratives. And many that I view that do actually tell a complete story tend to bite off of everything they've sucked up and soaked in over their years in film school.

It's just amazing to me. Film students tend to be the most hypercritical people, and yet they go out and do the very contrived and trite things they spend their college lives dissecting and dissing.

Maybe some slack should be cut. Sure. Fair enough. But we gotta step our game up. With all of the technology and sources of inspiration available to young filmmakers out there, the quality of the art has got to improve.

I would assume Film STudents suffer the same affliction I offer suffer which is that fear of being a nobody... I don't let it rule me or affect me... Which is where most of your complaints step from I would take a gander. Film students are out to impress the world with there MARVELOUS UNIQUE thinking... So they forget they should stop trying to impress and just tell a decent story. And in there insecurities they tear down everything around them.
 
No doubt, Art is hard but truly rewarding when everything fits nicely, much like putting together a puzzle. I make little movies and have been uploading them to my youtube account just for fun (here they are http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Wesyeed&page=1) and the process I find, is worse than school. What I aim for in making my short flicks though is to capture a certain spiritual feeling I sense when playing the videogame, positioning the toys properly, or watching the films. I don't really like fine art because it's too restricting for me "Oh richard draw this flower pot and violin"... "ok, done. That's it?". I just like throwing things together randomly in addition to how it's pre-conceived, and seeing what works.

and you're right movies. That's what my sister told me. She said "you psych yourself out before doing anything."

It's true, sadly. Fear sucks.
 
Has anyone ever watched a student film that wasn't completely pretentious, trying-too-hard to have depth and meaning, pure wannabe indie garbage? Or maybe the, "I can't really make an original legit action drama, so I'm going to get some friends and a DV camera and make my own Tarantino-esque drug flick" pieces of dung?

You know, those deep introspections, with obscure underground progressive rock, and maybe a cigarette or two?

What the hell is going on out here?

I just attended a student film festival at my college and 90% of the films were exactly what you described. There were some alright ones and most of them had great camera work, angles, and lighting; but the stories were very lacking.
 
The closest thing I worked on was editing the music to this film in art class in high school. I have no ****ing idea what the film's point was but I won some kind of award for it at a ceremony I had no clue about. I wish there were enough people in my high school to make some kind of film but nope never really locally even had the chance to view any kind of student films.
 
Has anyone ever watched a student film that wasn't completely pretentious, trying-too-hard to have depth and meaning, pure wannabe indie garbage? Or maybe the, "I can't really make an original legit action drama, so I'm going to get some friends and a DV camera and make my own Tarantino-esque drug flick" pieces of dung?

You know, those deep introspections, with obscure underground progressive rock, and maybe a cigarette or two?

What the hell is going on out here?


You should see the one I made

Titled "The evil Vaughn brothers...and the man who would take them down"
 
I just thought of something, how many people on here are student filmmakers, or wannabe filmmakers?

Cause I'm a media communications major, with a film minor, and english minor, cause my school doesn't have a film major, but yeah I am one
 
Has anyone ever watched a student film that wasn't completely pretentious, trying-too-hard to have depth and meaning, pure wannabe indie garbage?

Yes, I have. In high school I took a broadcasting/video production course and 99% of student films were jackass/matt stone and Trey Parker (south park guys) type stuff.

They are few and far between. That's because film students can tell you just about anything you want to know about the technical side of the craft, but if you were to ask them a question pertaining to the liberal arts, you would likely get a lot of blank faces.

It depends on the teacher. In high school my broadcasting teacher only taught the technical stuff. And, in college my professor only taught the journalism stuff. Both were really good teachers that served two purposes. If they were one teacher it would have been the best teacher ever.

everything you start with sucks.

So true! It took me the first three years of high school to FINALLY make something broadcasting and video production related that was actually good. In my senior year of high school and in college I finally made some decent stuff. But, those first three years were brutal. One crap after another.
 
Has anyone ever watched a student film that wasn't completely pretentious, trying-too-hard to have depth and meaning, pure wannabe indie garbage? Or maybe the, "I can't really make an original legit action drama, so I'm going to get some friends and a DV camera and make my own Tarantino-esque drug flick" pieces of dung?

You know, those deep introspections, with obscure underground progressive rock, and maybe a cigarette or two?

What the hell is going on out here?

LMAO! You just described the entire student film genre! :woot:
 
I am going to enter film college after school graduation. All I know is that I will never make dumb short films like what does every other student, who thinks he is next QT or RR.
 
That's what we all said. Then you look back on your "masterpeice" after a little down time, and the thought of ritual suicide suddenly seems positively sane compared to everything you thought you knew about making movies.
 
I am going to enter film college after school graduation. All I know is that I will never make dumb short films like what does every other student, who thinks he is next QT or RR.

:up:

Good on you. :yay:

It's good to have inspiration, even if it is from them directors...it's just when you think you want to BECOME them. It's not about that. It's about melding other styles to make your own. :yay:
 
The problem with student movies, or indie movies is everyone thinks that by making a more abstract film that they will be original, when they just end up making something like everyone else is doing, when the real great low budget, indie, or student made films are the ones that the filmmaker really puts his heart and soul into, and makes a film that means something to him/her

Like Clerks is a masterpeice in its amatuerness because if you wish to, you can kind of look at that movie as a window into kevin smiths soul, and see the exact momment in which he decideds to **** or get off the pot, and make a movie
 
I'm a freshman film major. I am going in for a television/film major. The reason for television is is that I think that's the best next step to go into after everything- as a director. You learn to harness the craft with a lot more experience- MANY of todays greats actually started directing for television. So, that's where I'm aiming for next.

Also, today television is getting so diverse that if the major thing that you want to do is tell a story, and have time to tell that story- well, TVs got the time... look at Prison Break, 24, Lost, etc. All huge serials. All ONE story.

For me the one thing that I focus on is the STORY. I practice, in my off time, writing screenplays and teleplays, even managing an extensive virtual series that gives me the experience of actually crafting a well laid out and detailed STORY.

Then, after you've got that- then visualize it. Chances are, if you write a great story you won't need all these bizarre abstract qualitiies about it- such as fast cutting, various bizarre angles and so on. The main focus is and should ALWAYS be the story.

Thus, even though I'm training to be a director... I've been a screenwriter all along as well, harnessing that craft through YEARS of practice which, I believe, is really showing up.

Because, we have ALOT that we can use story-wise that isn't abstract. I've even come up with a deja vu type story that focuses more on the story and the unfolding elements of the STORY rather than trying to make it look "different."

Now it seems that it's more "idea" abstracts than stories, which to me is- "what the hell is this?" territory. One short film I saw was a guy walking alone in the forest who is then sprayed with those can sprayers that shoot out playto-like clay, by a group of circus clowns- sad part is, I'm being serious. That was all it was- no story to it.

Another thing I've noticed is the rise in MTV style directing... fast cuts everywhere. When in actuality, if you have a good story- you don't need that. All you need is for the dramatic drama of the scenario to come out of the scene that the actors are given. Some films I've seen in the past looked more like music videos than films or a television show; that's why I brought up the possible influence of MTV.

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My 'first' short film:

Note: When I was younger, I played around with a video camera with my friends- trying to make movies... these were sloppily cut and had random camera angles that at the time- I thought was cool. I matured ALOT since then, but this was not technically my "first" film...

The short film that I ever directed was at the NYFA summer program two years ago in Orlando, Florida. Providing us the opportunity to use the MGM backlots- and guys, you've got to have respect for off set filming in crowded places- because it is really really tough! I mean, sometimes you can't even have a brand name in sight! So, that was really daunting as a first timer. But, I knew the story I wanted to tell. I knew the shots. I even had to compromise and make a bargain with somebody that had the same idea for a setting that I had in mind- which put me at a time restriction, sometimes cutting it close.

Simple premise:

A woman walks out of an office building. A man walks beside her. Suddenly a thief runs past and steals the woman's purse! The man runs after the thief and they round the corner: note- we are restricted to the woman's view of the events (we do not see what happens once they go around the corner). The man comes back and hands the woman her purse. She gives him twenty dollars as a "thank you." He initially refuses it, but she insists. He walks away and rounds the corner... we track with him as he continues to walk, he notions towards somebody waiting for him. We pan further to reveal that it's the crook! The man shows the crook the twenty dollars. THEIR CON MEN! The crook points out their next target on the other street, track over to the next target and cut to black.

Simple premise, very simple. There were 4 camera moves.

1. The man and woman exiting the office building. The crook runs past steals purse.

2. The man and crook rounding the corner.

3. Man returns. Getting twenty dollars. Man walks away.

4. The man bringing the crook the twenty dollars. And revealing the next target.

Simple camera shots. With a beginning title 'card' *(cardboard cut outs are AMAZING!!!)* and a credits rolling over a twenty dollar bill.

THE END.

Looking back, yeah I should have had one more shot in- that I completely forgot- and that's a CLOSE UP on the twenty bucks. But, everything else FLOWED. It wasn't cut apart by MTV style editing. Purposefully kept it simple, because the main aspect was the story with a 'twist' ending at the end. I went to tell a story, and I focused on that- telling the story... not on various 'unique' camera angles to make it look "different", but a more reserved and basic style of telling a nonabstract story that had an easy narrative.

Could it have been better? Hell yeah. But, everyone says that about something they make- always after its done, you can't help but look back and say "I should have done this" or "I should have done that." But, I can say that for what it was I am proud of it- I stuck to the narrative and let the dramatic action unfold.

My biggest problem: I could not use any dialouge at all.... which is especially hard when you're a Kevin Smith-like story teller (focusing a lot on the dialouge).

* It was a carboard cut out of a New York City sky line. It looked fake on location, but I video taped it anyways for the title card. On screen it looks like New York City, it was really amazing how that turned out. Sometimes something you think may be a sky line in a film- or something else- might just be cardboard and you'd never know the difference.

-------------------------------------

So I think it REALLY helps to have a knowledge in the realm of telling and or manipulating a story (if you have a twist ending) and from there decide how to bring it to life, rather than focusing on the technical side and leaving the story behind.
 
I am going to enter film college after school graduation. All I know is that I will never make dumb short films like what does every other student, who thinks he is next QT or RR.

oh get the **** over yourself.


I'm a student filmmaker and I'd say it's impossible to not draw a little something here and there from Tarantino. If you hadn't seen one of his films, chances are you wouldn't know what traditional cinema is because the guy still tries to incorporate traditional style into his technique.

But to give you some credit, I do have to agree with you on the dumb shorts. A career is to be taken seriously, so if you're going to do a short film, do it right and don't aim for the youtube audience.

people have told me to post my shorts on youtube (Break Out was 25 mins and The Duality of Men was 12). I've out-right yelled in their faces that I refuse to become an internet star like these little dip****s have tried to do:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ShotgunSalmon

i have connections to the "director" though a mutual friend, and i've outright told him to stop making movies. it's a disgrace.

seriously, the youtube craze is getting ridiculous. I refuse to become a part of that, I'll post my little trailers up on it, but never my movies. Someone has to take a stand.
 
I've never actually seen a student film to my knowledge. Although I may apply for graduate school in screenwriting so I'm sure I will then.
 

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