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Studios affraid of a solo female centered comic film?

Thank you for saying this. One of my exes had to set me straight on this: Wonder Woman is not for women. She's been written for guys as a power/sex fantasy, and isn't much like a woman, in a relatable way, at all. For me, it's very easy to contrast her with successful relatable female protagonists, or any comics character for that matter, and see what's missing. Imho: femininity (with all it's glorious strengths and weaknesses), agency (the ability to be a function of her own decisions instead of those of others) and pathos (being appealing because her experiences mirror ours, not because she's badass or sexy or a feminist icon or etc).

A successful superheroine movie would be a dramatic departure from comics for this reason. A successful female superhero would, I believe, emote much more than any female comics character does (and be justified and right to do so) and have a story that is resolved by something other than beating the snot out of someone, in a situation where brute force would be an inferior solution. At least, that's what I see successful female protagonists do if they have their own films, as opposed to playing second to a male action star.

Now to be fair, many people don't feel Superman is a relatable role model either, simply because they haven't read much Superman, and just gone on the basic concept and decided he couldn't possibly be relatable if he has X and Y. But I think Diana, and many other comics females, have that Z that makes it work.

EDIT:
Overall, I think studios are justified in their fear. The treating of comics books females as simple fantasies and extensions of the male characters, means that not attempt to translate it faithfully into a relatable story will fail just like making baked ice cream. Any successful/relatable solo superheroine film is going to be a dramatic departure from the source material. Her characterization is going to be maligned by fans. If she has a comics-based supporting cast there'll be criticism of why they are not superior to her in X, Y and Z way as in the comics. Etc, etc. Comics fans won't be able to understand why Wonder Woman acts more like Katniss than Conan. Of course, perhaps if it's an original superheroine it might have a shot without such issues.
A lot of this is true. However we have to keep in mind that the majority of superheroes are not translated exactly, beat for beat, to screen. They're adapted for the screen, and their character traits are altered accordingly. Batman, Thor, Iron Man, etc. They're all sort of departures from the characters as they were written in the comics, molded to be more of a human and less of an ideal by writers who understood them.

I think that's the key: you need a writer who respects and understands the character, but who isn't afraid to tweak characteristics of that character in order to make them genuine cinematic leads.

And to answer the question: yes, studios are afraid of all female-lead tentpoles, not just superhero pics. Hopefully Hunger Games and some of its inevitable knockoffs can help to change that mentality
 
Thank you for saying this. One of my exes had to set me straight on this: Wonder Woman is not for women. She's been written for guys as a power/sex fantasy, and isn't much like a woman, in a relatable way, at all. For me, it's very easy to contrast her with successful relatable female protagonists, or any comics character for that matter, and see what's missing. Imho: femininity (with all it's glorious strengths and weaknesses), agency (the ability to be a function of her own decisions instead of those of others) and pathos (being appealing because her experiences mirror ours, not because she's badass or sexy or a feminist icon or etc).

A successful superheroine movie would be a dramatic departure from comics for this reason. A successful female superhero would, I believe, emote much more than any female comics character does (and be justified and right to do so) and have a story that is resolved by something other than beating the snot out of someone, in a situation where brute force would be an inferior solution. At least, that's what I see successful female protagonists do if they have their own films, as opposed to playing second to a male action star.

Now to be fair, many people don't feel Superman is a relatable role model either, simply because they haven't read much Superman, and just gone on the basic concept and decided he couldn't possibly be relatable if he has X and Y. But I think Diana, and many other comics females, have that Z that makes it work.

EDIT:
Overall, I think studios are justified in their fear. The treating of comics books females as simple fantasies and extensions of the male characters, means that not attempt to translate it faithfully into a relatable story will fail just like making baked ice cream. Any successful/relatable solo superheroine film is going to be a dramatic departure from the source material. Her characterization is going to be maligned by fans. If she has a comics-based supporting cast there'll be criticism of why they are not superior to her in X, Y and Z way as in the comics. Etc, etc. Comics fans won't be able to understand why Wonder Woman acts more like Katniss than Conan. Of course, perhaps if it's an original superheroine it might have a shot without such issues.

I think a lot of my issues with the character have to do with her, and basically all amazonian women, representing that over the top feminist attitude of women being better or stronger than men, or hating them.

I don't want the first representation of a female superhero to be a women than comes from a world where women rule supreme and men are lesser beings.

I mean, what exactly does that inspire?

Why can't we have a character who is normal, and then gets super powers/finds out they aren't actually normal, and starts the journey towards becoming a superhero... like, you know, the majority of superheroes out there...

But a woman...

Is that really so hard to do?

Why aren't there any that aren't spin off secondary characters?

I swear, I am so damn glad I grew up in a world with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Best female superhero ever.
 
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It pains me to think that people in this day and age *still* haven't gotten over the stereotypes of who Wonder Woman is. Yes, she began as a Golden Age bondage queen for dirty old men to fap to back in the 1950s. Yes, bra-burners like Gloria Steinem tried to make her into a man-hating lesbian uber-goddess.

But guess what? That ain't Diana. Never has been, never will be.
Wonder Woman is a symbol of empowerment, but NOT emasculation. Wonder Woman IS a role model for women, *not* just wank material for teenage boys. Hell, most comic-book guys I know (and knew) wouldn't be caught dead with a WW comic, although they have no problem with buying She-Hulk, Emma Frost, Ms. Marvel, Elektra or other female headliners.

Wonder Woman is THE pop culture icon, the third of DC's Big Three. It's an absolute no-brainer that she should be elevated to the top of DC's movie pantheon, where she belongs.

It's mystifying to me that anybody here, or in the hallowed offices of Warners, would think that freakin' Wonder Woman is a risky venture.
 
I honestly think in making Wonder Woman dont worry about making her a feminine icon or a role model for women. Just make her cool, badass, and likeable
 
I swear, I am so damn glad I grew up in a world with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Best female superhero ever.

She's the best contemporary superheroine of this century The other companies are still recycling old comic icons to fit into today's world.
 
I honestly think in making Wonder Woman dont worry about making her a feminine icon or a role model for women. Just make her cool, badass, and likeable

There's the merchandising factor they want to cash in on. And collectibles items need to look extraordinary to sell.
 
There's the merchandising factor they want to cash in on. And collectibles items need to look extraordinary to sell.

and being cool, badass, and likeable wont sell merchandise?
 
I think a lot of my issues with the character have to do with her, and basically all amazonian women, representing that over the top feminist attitude of women being better or stronger than men, or hating them.

I don't want the first representation of a female superhero to be a women than comes from a world where women rule supreme and men are lesser beings.

I mean, what exactly does that inspire?

Why can't we have a character who is normal, and then gets super powers/finds out they aren't actually normal, and starts the journey towards becoming a superhero... like, you know, the majority of superheroes out there...

But a woman...

Is that really so hard to do?

Why aren't there any that aren't spin off secondary characters?

I swear, I am so damn glad I grew up in a world with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Best female superhero ever.
I definitely get all this, and it's the kind of inequality that is terrible but is unlikely to change, as the comics themselves are generally aimed at a more male audience...

That's why I think Ms Marvel could be such a great starting place for female superheroes on film. Yeah, she's technically a *spin-off*, but she really does fit the description

"Why can't we have a character who is normal, and then gets super powers/finds out they aren't actually normal, and starts the journey towards becoming a superhero... like, you know, the majority of superheroes out there..."

... the "getting super powers" part just happens to involve an alien named Captain Marvel
 
I honestly think in making Wonder Woman dont worry about making her a feminine icon or a role model for women. Just make her cool, badass, and likeable
Exactly, WB should just think of her as their answer to Thor. Let the filmmakers worry about the whole "woman" thing.
 
I would pay good money to see a Black Widow, Ms. Marvel, or WW film. Do not get me wrong: I would be close to dying happy if a Batwoman film was made, based on the modern iteration of the character. Sadly, a lesbian superhero would be suicide in the world where Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and Evangelism exist.

I dunno, the conservative right didn't kill Brokeback Mountain, or any other LGBT film. So... no, it would not be suicide. In fact, a lesbian heroine would actually get guys who like girl-on-girl action to take a look. What would kill Batwoman is that she's a knock off of a billion dollar film franchise... so.

A lot of this is true. However we have to keep in mind that the majority of superheroes are not translated exactly, beat for beat, to screen. They're adapted for the screen, and their character traits are altered accordingly. Batman, Thor, Iron Man, etc. They're all sort of departures from the characters as they were written in the comics, molded to be more of a human and less of an ideal by writers who understood them.

I think that's the key: you need a writer who respects and understands the character, but who isn't afraid to tweak characteristics of that character in order to make them genuine cinematic leads.

And to answer the question: yes, studios are afraid of all female-lead tentpoles, not just superhero pics. Hopefully Hunger Games and some of its inevitable knockoffs can help to change that mentality

But there are no knockoffs to Hunger Games, are there? I believe this is because a female action heroine is just plain old more challenging to do well. Even Angelina Jolie can't do it like she used to (Salt vs Tomb Raider). And while with the male heroes, different things are emphasized, their dominant traits are intact. The dominant trait for most female heroes is being sexpots. Second to that being a badass warriors. I'm sure a good writer will, as you say, understand this, and pull out those minor characteristics used to delineate them from other female heroes. But I don't think fans will be pleased with a Miss Marvel who is not in stripper boots, or a Black Widow that wants to be more than just an assassin, or a Wonder Woman that dare cries.

I think a lot of my issues with the character have to do with her, and basically all amazonian women, representing that over the top feminist attitude of women being better or stronger than men, or hating them.

I don't want the first representation of a female superhero to be a women than comes from a world where women rule supreme and men are lesser beings.

I mean, what exactly does that inspire?

Why can't we have a character who is normal, and then gets super powers/finds out they aren't actually normal, and starts the journey towards becoming a superhero... like, you know, the majority of superheroes out there...

But a woman...

Is that really so hard to do?

Why aren't there any that aren't spin off secondary characters?

I swear, I am so damn glad I grew up in a world with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Best female superhero ever.

I feel you. Comic book writers generally don't identify with any kind of female coming-of-age adventure, and those that do know that most of their customers don't, which pushes women away, vicious cycle, etc. Some have tried to create characters like this in recent times, however, it's the year 2000+, and it's too late to introduce characters who are important to the MU. So, while we have Arana and Spider-Girl and perhaps a couple others who start out normal, it's very easy to write them out of the comics or shove them in a corner of a team, because they're not beloved like characters conceived in the 60s and 70s. Buffy was pretty great though.

What did you think of the Wonder Woman 2009 animated movie?

It pains me to think that people in this day and age *still* haven't gotten over the stereotypes of who Wonder Woman is. Yes, she began as a Golden Age bondage queen for dirty old men to fap to back in the 1950s. Yes, bra-burners like Gloria Steinem tried to make her into a man-hating lesbian uber-goddess.

But guess what? That ain't Diana. Never has been, never will be.
Wonder Woman is a symbol of empowerment, but NOT emasculation. Wonder Woman IS a role model for women, *not* just wank material for teenage boys. Hell, most comic-book guys I know (and knew) wouldn't be caught dead with a WW comic, although they have no problem with buying She-Hulk, Emma Frost, Ms. Marvel, Elektra or other female headliners.

Wonder Woman is THE pop culture icon, the third of DC's Big Three. It's an absolute no-brainer that she should be elevated to the top of DC's movie pantheon, where she belongs.

It's mystifying to me that anybody here, or in the hallowed offices of Warners, would think that freakin' Wonder Woman is a risky venture.

That's not Diana to you, brother, but to many others, including writers and readers of WW comics of the years, she has been many of those negative things, as you said (even though you later said she has never been those things)? Now I love her, and certainly she has the potential to be an amazing character, but currently, in reality, how is she a symbol of empowerment to women? What does she inspire exactly? When was the last storyline that she actually inspired such a thing? And while you may not understand why WW is risky, you do understand that people, including filmmakers, perceive Diana was what she has been portrayed as throughout her history.

I honestly think in making Wonder Woman dont worry about making her a feminine icon or a role model for women. Just make her cool, badass, and likeable

A likeable woman would be a role model to women by definition, methinks.
 
But thats not based on the show. It's not like the movie was on a fast track before the show
 
But there are no knockoffs to Hunger Games, are there? I believe this is because a female action heroine is just plain old more challenging to do well. Even Angelina Jolie can't do it like she used to (Salt vs Tomb Raider). And while with the male heroes, different things are emphasized, their dominant traits are intact. The dominant trait for most female heroes is being sexpots. Second to that being a badass warriors. I'm sure a good writer will, as you say, understand this, and pull out those minor characteristics used to delineate them from other female heroes. But I don't think fans will be pleased with a Miss Marvel who is not in stripper boots, or a Black Widow that wants to be more than just an assassin, or a Wonder Woman that dare cries.
Not yet, but studios are working on the knockoffs as we speak

And fans weren't pleased with a Cap who didn't have little wings sticking out of the sides of his said. They'll get over it :oldrazz:
 
and being cool, badass, and likeable wont sell merchandise?

That is only directed at a small part of the world audience. For example the Matrix merchandis doesn't even sell as well as stuff from say...Jurassic Park.
 
Jurassic Park is higheer grossing than MAtrix. JP is pg or pg13 I forget. and JP has dinosaurs which people of all ages just find awesome.

Make Diana cool, likeable, and badass, make sure her costume looks good, and put her in a good film; and everything will be fine. I dont see how that doesnt translate into merchandising

If Diana is a good character most of the same boys and girls that'll buy Captain America, Batman, Spider-man or whoever will buy Wonder Woman
 
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Not yet, but studios are working on the knockoffs as we speak

And fans weren't pleased with a Cap who didn't have little wings sticking out of the sides of his said. They'll get over it :oldrazz:

A few fans weren't pleased, sure. But the criticisms The Kelley Pilot's Costume received were... stupendous. More honus is placed on women's looks and so their costumes are scrutinzed more. Small mis-steps on Wonder Woman's costume create a furor all over the internet, not just comic book forums. Because their characters are not emphasized, they don't get the boon of having their characters preserved in film like male heroes. Visual changes are seen as complete changes to the entire character. "CINO." Because their value, historically, is how they look, not the core of their character, since, usually, they have none. I think the criticism for female superheroes is more intense, vicious and difficult to avoid.

I'll be very surprised to see any knockoffs of Hunger Games in theatres before a trilogy has proven itself to be successful, but we shall see.

I also think you're on point with your suggestion of Ms. Marvel who actually does start out as a normal person, more or less. I think her origin would be more relatable than Wonder Woman's. But that brings out another issue. The rumor is with the MsMarvel movie that the reason they're not making it is because they can't find a suitable actress. Now, obviously there is some actress out there who can play any part, and y'know, Ms. Marvel isn't oscar-bait, y'know? But the question is, I think is there an actress that can successfully headline an action movie? Well, yes, Angelina Jolie, but she's not right for Ms. Marvel. Anyone else? Zoe Saldana, almost, Gina Carano, no. Forget action movies... how many women can headline a film at all? Precious few, none of whom are right for Ms. Marvel with the possible exception of Charlize Theron. Possibly. Her last two outings as a superhero ended badly, didn't they? More skittishness from executives.

Make Diana cool, likeable, and badass, make sure her costume looks good, and put her in a good film; and everything will be fine. I dont see how that doesnt translate into merchandising

I think you're trivializing something that many talented writers have shown to be quite challenging. The number of people who have failed to make Diana these three things is immense, and reads like a who's who at times, and the number of people who have ever succeeded is short and arguable. Yes, if they make a good film, it'll be a good film, but a lot of people have tried to make good superheroine films, and they haven't done well as of yet. That should be looked at if we're trying to figure out why studios are so skittish. It can't just be a bunch of coincidences.
 
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It is a pity that Whedon's Wonderwoman fell through the cracks. At the end of the day, these characters require the right creative team.

I would pay good money to see a Black Widow, Ms. Marvel, or WW film. Do not get me wrong: I would be close to dying happy if a Batwoman film was made, based on the modern iteration of the character. Sadly, a lesbian superhero would be suicide in the world where Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and Evangelism exist.

Batgirl has the potential to be great as long as The Killing Joke is avoided. Sure, a severe injury from similar circumstances - a la TDKR- from which she heals and triumphs would work. Having Barbara bound to a wheelchair would be in poor taste and not aid the aforementioned problem with female superheroes in both mediums
.
I'm watching TDKR in several hours from now, please don't spoil me the film, not everybody received already :cmad:
 
If people are willing to sit through all those Milla Jovovich Resident Evil movies then I think they would watch a good Wonder Woman film.
 
While the new 52 comic book didn't exactly use well the amazons i think they made a very good Wonder Woman, she was serious but cared for everybody and was vey likeable, fans seem to dislike their characters crying as in the Tomb Raider forums i noticed that one of the reasons they hated Tomb Raider Legend, annyversary and Underworld was because Lara cried.

I think that he costume can easily be translated to screen if a few modifications are made, they coulld take inspiration from Greek battle armors:
Kind of like a bigger budget version of the costume used by Lois in Smallville. She could paint it in the american flag to show the she comes in peace.
I remember liking the Wonder Woman animated film a lot, maybe with some differences here and there it could work as the live-action film.

Wonder Woman actually has some interesting directors and writers behind, aparently after Joss Whedon left, Matthew Jennison and Brent Strickland sent them a script of a wonder woman that was set during World War II, the studios said it had very good ideas but they didn't want to make it period piece, now Refn is interested in Wonder Woman too, they should get him before it's too late.
 
I also think you're on point with your suggestion of Ms. Marvel who actually does start out as a normal person, more or less. I think her origin would be more relatable than Wonder Woman's. But that brings out another issue. The rumor is with the MsMarvel movie that the reason they're not making it is because they can't find a suitable actress. Now, obviously there is some actress out there who can play any part, and y'know, Ms. Marvel isn't oscar-bait, y'know? But the question is, I think is there an actress that can successfully headline an action movie? Well, yes, Angelina Jolie, but she's not right for Ms. Marvel. Anyone else? Zoe Saldana, almost, Gina Carano, no. Forget action movies... how many women can headline a film at all? Precious few, none of whom are right for Ms. Marvel with the possible exception of Charlize Theron. Possibly. Her last two outings as a superhero ended badly, didn't they? More skittishness from executives.

They should take the Superman approach. Cast a virtual unknown as Danvers, but stack the supporting cast with stars. That formula has proven successful over and over again (Superman: The Movie, X-Men, Thor, Captain America, etc.).
 
Jurassic Park is higheer grossing than MAtrix. JP is pg or pg13 I forget. and JP has dinosaurs which people of all ages just find awesome.

Make Diana cool, likeable, and badass, make sure her costume looks good, and put her in a good film; and everything will be fine. I dont see how that doesnt translate into merchandising

If Diana is a good character most of the same boys and girls that'll buy Captain America, Batman, Spider-man or whoever will buy Wonder Woman

Most girls don't buy the merchandise that come from badass films. Fun films, yeah, but not badass.
 
If people are willing to sit through all those Milla Jovovich Resident Evil movies then I think they would watch a good Wonder Woman film.

But what constitutes a good Wonder Woman movie? Resident Evil started from a horror video game that has zombies. Should we see Wonder Woman fight the same monsters we've seen already in Clash of the Titans and Wrath of the Titans?
 

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