Stupid People Doing Stupid Things Thread - Part 3

[XtremelyBaneful]

That's easy to say when you aren't the one being targeted by them.

what are you talking about?

 

[C. Lee]

there is nothing that's going to make hate groups change their minds. nothing. so the only thing to do is ignore them.

Have you ever read a history book? A lot of people ignored the National Socialist Party, and we now what happened then. You do know who the National Socialist Party were don't you? Read up on how people ignored them....how they hoped they would just go away....how they believed they couldn't be as bad as some people were saying and really wouldn't do anything bad.

 

[KalMart]

hateful people will do hateful things. the best thing to do is go 'smh' and move on. but that's not what the vast majority of muslims, or at least the perceived voice of muslim people do when something offensive comes about.

It would seem that for some, an act of hate towards your religion is a declaration of war….

I guess it's the same for some as an open expression of malice/hatred towards a family member. What if a group of people rallied outside of your home with the purpose of 'drawing' your mother/sister/father/brother/child…or you….?

Can or should you just…..ignore them….? After all, freedom of speech is a right. Couldn't you just 'turn the other cheek'?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Educating the young is the best way of getting rid of hate and ignorance

 

[KalMart]

Educating the young is the best way of getting rid of hate and ignorance

It's also how hate and ignorance is bred and nurtured, unfortunately.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

what are you talking about?

I'm saying your suggestion of ignoring a hate group isn't as easy when they're showing up at your place of worship with an agenda and guns. This isn't a hard concept.

It's also how hate and ignorance is bred and nurtured, unfortunately.

True, though I'd argue that's more indoctrination than education.

 

[KalMart]

True, though I'd argue that's more indoctrination than education.

Some look at the two as one and the same.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Have you ever read a history book? A lot of people ignored the National Socialist Party, and we now what happened then. You do know who the National Socialist Party were don't you? Read up on how people ignored them....how they hoped they would just go away....how they believed they couldn't be as bad as some people were saying and really wouldn't do anything bad.

Yes I have read history books but no, I don't know what the National Socialist Party is. Placing people in danger is one thing, but that's not what I'm talking about here. All I'm saying here is (how all this became an issue) these hateful people, making offensive artwork about the prophet Muhammad. The reaction of Muslims that received the most attention was the violent threats Muslims were giving to those who made the cartoons. THAT is in no way shape or form, rational. No one deserves to be killed for an offensive piece of artwork, intentional or not. Their reactions were violent the very first time offensive cartoons were printed, and it seems that's the way it is every single time.

It would seem that for some, an act of hate towards your religion is a declaration of war….

And that's not rational. At least not to me. Unless you're being directly threatened or harmed or have a reason to fear for your safety.

I guess it's the same for some as an open expression of malice/hatred towards a family member. What if a group of people rallied outside of your home with the purpose of 'drawing' your mother/sister/father/brother/child…or you….?

Can or should you just…..ignore them….? After all, freedom of speech is a right. Couldn't you just 'turn the other cheek'?

I would find that quite strange...I mean, if they were drawing pictures and came to my front door step to mock me about it I would be like, eff off. If they were like posting them on facebook to be annoying I would ask them to stop. And take it from there. I wouldn't just go hostile.

I'm saying your suggestion of ignoring a hate group isn't as easy when they're showing up at your place of worship with an agenda and guns. This isn't a hard concept.

You said it's easy to say what I said when I'm not the one being targeted. I condemn what these bikers are doing, but I'm saying this movement that they're doing is a result of the reactions that Muslims (at large I suppose) made in response to the offensive cartoons. So these innocent Muslims who were just going to attend Jumma are going through because of the image that Muslims have made. It's not their fault, but it's like I said in the beginning of this conversation - this never would've happened if (the other) Muslims weren't acting out in the first place.

 

[C. Lee]

Yes I have read history books but no, I don't know what the National Socialist Party is.

They also go by the name......NAZI......so maybe you should go read some more books. You do not ignore hatred....you confront it, or it grows.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

They also go by the name......NAZI......so maybe you should go read some more books. You do not ignore hatred....you confront it, or it grows.

OK, fair enough. Yes of course there's much more for me to learn. iirc, it was you who once said "the more you know, the more you know you don't know" and I thought that was a very mindblowing statement because it's true.

But the Nazis weren't just hate mongers, they were murderers.

 

[C. Lee]

That's the point.....they started as hate mongers.....and when not enough people told them that was wrong to do...they got worse and worse until they were murdering millions.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I think we live in an era where the minds, tools, precautions, and preparations, and arrangements are in place to make sure that such atrocities that were committed during that time will never happen again. That party of history...won't be repeated. By anyone, to anyone. Well, I'd to believe that. As bad as humanity can get, it won't go that far.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

The old saying goes that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it

 

[KalMart]

I wouldn't just go hostile.

If you come from a culture of war, you probably would. Maybe they should take the example from blacks and Jews when a KKK rally organizes a march and calls them n*ggers and k*kes…and just laugh it off?

Freedom of speech does not excuse demonstrations of hate and indecency towards others. That's abuse, not exercise…and to many it's justifiably a big deal that can't just be shrugged off. Of course it should be correctly identified as such, but there's no doubt in this case.

 

[C. Lee]

I think we live in an era where the minds, tools, precautions, and preparations, and arrangements are in place to make sure that such atrocities that were committed during that time will never happen again. That party of history...won't be repeated. By anyone, to anyone. Well, I'd to believe that. As bad as humanity can get, it won't go that far.

Syria....Bosnia....Rwanda.....the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.....glad they all happened before WWII because that kind of stuff can't happen after we saw what the Nazis could do.....oh wait, they did happen afterwards......

 

[KalMart]

If world peace is going to be possible, then it probably won't be achieved by humans. But we have to do the best we can.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

If you come from a culture of war, you probably would. Maybe they should take the example from blacks and Jews when a KKK rally organizes a march and calls them n*ggers and k*kes…and just laugh it off?

not entirely sure what you're trying to say here.

Freedom of speech does not excuse demonstrations of hate and indecency towards others. That's abuse, not exercise…and to many it's justifiably a big deal that can't just be shrugged off. Of course it should be correctly identified as such, but there's no doubt in this case.

i'm not disagreeing with you here. again, i condemn what the bikers are doing - but their actions are a reaction of how Muslims reacted to the cartoons in the first place, which was, threatening the lives of the artists. Just as you said freedom of speach does not excuse hate crimes - death threats are not justifiable through offensive cartoons.

Syria....Bosnia....Rwanda.....the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.....glad they all happened before WWII because that kind of stuff can't happen after we saw what the Nazis could do.....oh wait, they did happen afterwards......

OK you got me. Terrorist actions happen but I meant that such genocides can't be committed by the governments themselves anymore.

 

[KalMart]

not entirely sure what you're trying to say here.

Apparently not at all.

i'm not disagreeing with you here. again, i condemn what the bikers are doing - but their actions are a reaction of how Muslims reacted to the cartoons in the first place, which was, threatening the lives of the artists. Just as you said freedom of speach does not excuse hate crimes - death threats are not justifiable through offensive cartoons.

Again, they are for those who come from a culture that takes ridicule of their religion as an act of war. Whether one agrees with that or not, one should know that by now instead of being surprised by an 'overreaction'. Not saying that the reaction makes them righteous, but it was a wrong that was invited/provoked by a prior wrong…so the cycle of scratching the other back contains no justifications for either. The cartoonists did start it with the clear intention to ridicule, they should have known it wasn't going to be met with just a shrug. Stupidity, meet militance….militance say hello to stupidity. Y'all have fun and play nice now….

 

[Marvolo]

not entirely sure what you're trying to say here.

i'm not disagreeing with you here. again, i condemn what the bikers are doing - but their actions are a reaction of how Muslims reacted to the cartoons in the first place, which was, threatening the lives of the artists. Just as you said freedom of speach does not excuse hate crimes - death threats are not justifiable through offensive cartoons.
OK you got me. Terrorist actions happen but I meant that such genocides can't be committed by the governments themselves anymore.

The things C.Lee listed are government sanctioned genocides. Some of which are ongoing. Fact is millions have been murdered by governments all over the world since WW2. And I don't mean in wars. Genocide is sadly a common occurrence. We are no closer to stopping it entirely than we were in 1940.

 

[Godzilla2000]

The things C.Lee listed are government sanctioned genocides. Some of which are ongoing. Fact is millions have been murdered by governments all over the world since WW2. And I don't mean in wars. Genocide is sadly a common occurrence. We are no closer to stopping it entirely than we were in 1940.

Genocides have been going on ever since man learned how to hate and kill. You can go even further than WWII for examples of genocide. Genghis Khan condemned an entire Chinese tribe to obliteration at hos death bed. No one was spared, not even as slaves, all were killed without a second thought.

 

[KalMart]

The point is that it didn't stop with the Nazis.

 

[Godzilla2000]

Nope, not at all. As long as people hate any group for extreme and irrational reasons there will always be genocidal nutcases in this world.

 

[KalMart]

And cultural suicide, as well.

 

[Marvolo]

Genocides have been going on ever since man learned how to hate and kill. You can go even further than WWII for examples of genocide. Genghis Khan condemned an entire Chinese tribe to obliteration at hos death bed. No one was spared, not even as slaves, all were killed without a second thought.

I know. I was responding to this conversation:

OK, fair enough. Yes of course there's much more for me to learn. iirc, it was you who once said "the more you know, the more you know you don't know" and I thought that was a very mindblowing statement because it's true.

But the Nazis weren't just hate mongers, they were murderers.

That's the point.....they started as hate mongers.....and when not enough people told them that was wrong to do...they got worse and worse until they were murdering millions.

I think we live in an era where the minds, tools, precautions, and preparations, and arrangements are in place to make sure that such atrocities that were committed during that time will never happen again. That party of history...won't be repeated. By anyone, to anyone. Well, I'd to believe that. As bad as humanity can get, it won't go that far.

And pointing out that governments today are no less capable of committing genocides than the Nazis were.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Apparently not at all.


Again, they are for those who come from a culture that takes ridicule of their religion as an act of war. Whether one agrees with that or not, one should know that by now instead of being surprised by an 'overreaction'. Not saying that the reaction makes them righteous, but it was a wrong that was invited/provoked by a prior wrong…so the cycle of scratching the other back contains no justifications for either. The cartoonists did start it with the clear intention to ridicule, they should have known it wasn't going to be met with just a shrug. Stupidity, meet militance….militance say hello to stupidity. Y'all have fun and play nice now….

It is not rational to take ridicule of religion as an act of war. That is NOT rational. There's no arguing against that. It is not okay to threaten the lives of people who are making offensive artwork. You say the cartoonists started it, but I'm pretty sure they make offensive cartoons about everyone, as does other places of media - yet the reaction that seems to always comes from the Muslims' camp are violent and life threatening.