Suicide Squad: General Discussion and Speculation - - - - - - - - - Part 26

[harlequinade]

Just talking to the girl I know who is watching this tonight (she is psyched) and talking about her reactions to other superhero movies (she is not big on either Marvel or DC) I was like yeah I like Avengers and CW not AoU so much and I made a joke it probably has around 80% fresh on RT.
Then I checked it.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yep. The problem isn't just the style of film, it is a lack of a whole.

I read this great thing on Kotaku the other day explaining the real problem with BvS. It was something I had been trying to say for a while, but couldn't. It was also the same problem I had with MoS, even as I love it.

These DC films aren't trying to tell stories and thus are low on sustainable characters. They are all about the "moments". Now these moments can be fun, but they can also come off as hollow because there is nothing there supporting them. You can come up for a reason why Batman is fighting Superman or this rag tag group came together. But if the story doesn't support it, if the writing doesn't support it, you have built these pretty moments on no foundation and everything collapses.

Yeah, I saw that too, and it's true for both BvS and MOS (more so for BvS, but it's an issue in both). In the case of BvS, the idea of why Batman and Superman come to blows is so poorly thought out, it's ridiculous. Same with how Doomsday comes to be. It's just like, "Well, as long as it happens, everything that leads up to it doesn't really matter." And in MOS, the whole world engine and final battle are kind of the same. Superman destroying the world engine looked cool and is supposed to be this big, inspiring moment. But on the other hand, this happens in the middle of the ocean while people are dying by the thousands in Metropolis and no one is can help them. So when Jenny has her "he saved us" line, it doesn't make any sense because how the hell did she know Superman did anything?

All of these things could have been fixed, however, if they just took a little more time with the scripts.

 

[chicagodave]

Is it too soon to be looking for a "directors cut" of suicide squad. Apparently thats what soo many thought might redeem BvS, for me it did not, but who knows maybe thats all people might have to hold on to.

 

[Juan1193]

It's a war zone on social media!! DC and Marvel fans are going at it haha. It's very entertaining, quite amusing actually.

I'm biased towards DC because I like their characters better. The only Marvel characters I like are the X-Men. But geez these fan wars have gotten crazy!! And it's only the beginning

 

[FunkMiller]

So to anyone who saw it how was Batman? Was he as cool as Ayer described?

Just been reading articles about his involvement and [BLACKOUT]he's not in it much to be cool or otherwise, apparently.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[brandeezy89]

I'm quite sure if this trend continues, WB will pull the plug after JL. Frankly, some part of me kind of hopes that it does happen because this is just painful to watch.

Problem is that I can see WB focusing more on other Franchises (Bond or a new one) than Superheroes.

 

[The Joker]

It's a war zone on social media!! DC and Marvel fans are going at it haha. It's very entertaining, quite amusing actually.

Now I wonder what sparked that...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The thing is I'm pretty sure these films are successful so just like Transformers they'll keep on coming and coming and coming. And thank God for that because I love DCEU thus far and if anything these reviews have made me more excited because it's an Ayer film and not the much dreaded Guardians of the Villains I so didn't want it to be. So I'm doing a happy dance - dark, mean, cruel these are words I wanted associated not pop, light hearted, and fun/ny. These are villains, I want it to be off the cuff as it were.

That is it, they aren't turning those profits that make investors swoon. That BvS didn't make it to a billion, especially after that opening, was a bit of disaster. MoS, with all its hype, didn't break $700m. You can't look investors with a straight face and tell them that when it is all said and done, BvS made a fantastic profit of something like $10m. You think that is what they spent hundreds of millions to make?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

You are delusional if you think critics go easier on female-drive films.
And based on a previous comment (which was borderline racist) neither do critics go easy on black-led films. In fact they go much harder.

Thank you for taking on those ridiculous comments so that I don't have to. It is a goddamn lie to say that critics go easier on female and black led films.

 

[Victarion]

Can I get a tl;dr on the movie's feel? The tweet thread was pretty scarce on new stuff aside from Kevin Smith's praise.

Looking at the piece a couple pages back that highlights some stuff about Deadshot using guns, it looks like the problem is that its too downbeat and the characters are mostly despicable?

 

[DeadStroke]

There is a bit of fear for me about this movie.

With BvS and MoS I felt like those movies could have been misunderstood or just ahead of its time.

Truth is Goyer really knows comics. Terrio is still a more gifted writer than Ayer. I think Ayer has a better handle on characters and showing depth than Zack. However, Zack still has enough vision to wow you with beautiful imagery.

With this I worry if its just a legit bad film :/

 

[Tvar10]

Just been reading articles about his involvement and [BLACKOUT]he's not in it much to be cool or otherwise, apparently.[/BLACKOUT]

Bummer

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Either Marvel or DC need to get on this and do more of it.

When my stupid brain realized what Iron Man 3 was, I enjoyed it a lot more.

 

[Kyle]

That is it, they aren't turning those profits that make investors swoon. That BvS didn't make it to a billion, especially after that opening, was a bit of disaster. MoS, with all its hype, didn't break $700m. You can't look investors with a straight face and tell them that when it is all said and done, BvS made a fantastic profit of something like $10m. You think that is what they spent hundreds of millions to make?

And yet we live in a world where we're getting Transformers 5 and Transformers spin off movies after the critics loathed every single one and people are still asking why they get made. In that world, I feel perfectly content that DC won't stop as long as it is always turning out profits because there's no risk involved outside of some angry fanboys and critics. Feel free to disagree, but here I love that it's all bottom dollar and seeing it as a no risk venture to that dollar. No risk profit beats risk potential money loss any day of the week.

 

[-Arya-]

Problem is that I can see WB focusing more on other Franchises (Bond or a new one) than Superheroes.

That's fine, but my hope is a rebooted DC franchise without a forced interconnected universe. Though I enjoyed both MOS and the BvS UE, I'm thinking it was a colossal mistake to try and replicate Marvel. WB could have had the same success with separate franchises for Batman, Superman, WW etc...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And yet we live in a world where we're getting Transformers 5 and Transformers spin off movies after the critics loathed every single one and people are still asking why they get made. In that world, I feel perfectly content that DC won't stop as long as it is always turning out profits because there's no risk involved.

Transformers makes a ton of cash. They are actually rather cheap to make all things considered, and they break a billion every time.

What you feel perfectly content with isn't what people investing with WB feel perfectly content with. Disney prints money. Didn't stop there investors from demanding that TFA come out at the latest in 2015.

 

[DeadStroke]

Can I get a tl;dr on the movie's feel? The tweet thread was pretty scarce on new stuff aside from Kevin Smith's praise.

Looking at the piece a couple pages back that highlights some stuff about Deadshot using guns, it looks like the problem is that its too downbeat and the characters are mostly despicable?

Its a movie that if you love the characters you'll like the movie.

This is a movie about villains/pos people. The story is blah, the main villain is trash, but the acting is good.

However, if you don't care about the characters the flaws will stick out even more.

They had a trump card in the Joker, but failed to use him accordingly.

 

[Chesterfield]

It played to a very singular minority that I was a part of. I seriously hope DC continues down that path. Screw critics, screw the masses, make these niche films that people in that niche audience can truly love.

Then stick to your comics, cartoons and tv shows. A studio isn't going to invest $200 -260 million to make niche movies or appeal to "a very singular minority". It's not smart business is it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Thank you for taking on those ridiculous comments so that I don't have to. It is a goddamn lie to say that critics go easier on female and black led films.

While I agree with this, I also felt like the Wonder Woman trailer hype was a bit... much. And it is because it is Wonder Woman.

 

[Victarion]

I was more intrigued by the fantasy elements than the Joker where marketing was concerned. Any nonspoilery word on those?

WW trailer didn't do anything for me tbh. The beach was pretty but otherwise I didn't see anything that really jumped out at me.

 

[Kyle]

Transformers makes a ton of cash. They are actually rather cheap to make all things considered, and they break a billion every time.

What you feel perfectly content with isn't what people investing with WB feel perfectly content with. Disney prints money. Didn't stop there investors from demanding that TFA come out at the latest in 2015.

So you've had a sit down talk with WB and they've told you "we would rather take risks and potentially get profit or lose money than take something with no risk, bad buzz, and still make a profit because if we make profit and we're not Disney we're a failure?" I doubt that, but okay.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I disagree that a shared DC universe can't work. It works in comics, it works in animated movies and TV shows. You could even argue that it works in live action; I'm not the biggest fan of the Arrowverse, but it's been fairly successful with its targeted demographic.

But you need someone to lead it, who not only has a unique vision but also understands why these characters have persevered throughout the years. I'm all for a director putting his or her own spin on a character, but that doesn't mean they have to sacrifice all the things that people love about said character. Marvel understands that. I'd hoped the WB and DC did too but... well...

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

I don't think the issue is tone. But I do think there needs to be a collective effort to produce a general audience/critic friendly films.

Man of Steel is a great Sci Fi movie. Its out of the wheelhouse for superhero movies.

Batman v Superman is an awesome elseworld story. Its not what people want to see for the first Batman/Superman movie.

Suicide Squad looks like an awesome John Carpenter flick. Not a fun Superhero/villain film for a mass audience.

The tone is due to the fact they don't have a collective effort. The problem with your examples are the fact they tried to make the films something they are not. All of them are superhero movies and there is nothing wrong with that. It seems wb are **** scared of just having decent superhero movies and can't get out of the "edgy hip 90s"

Are we really surprised? Someone had to sign off on this Joker, the same one Batman will be facing off against in an actual Batman film in the future.

I don't think we'll get anything past justice league if this continues they just can't keep bombing

Same here, man. I'm hoping this is one of those times when I don't agree with the majority of critics but... after BvS, it's hard for me to just ignore the bad reviews. Because at least in that case, I agreed with most of them.

And yeah, I don't know how involved Snyder was with SS, but he co-wrote Wonder Woman and is directing JL, so it's hard to be optimistic going forward.

You can tell he was the one that signed off on the look and design of the film, it just screams his mentality. I'm amazed we don't get the obligatory frank Miller ass kiss in every film

It's one of the things I loved about the Young Justice toon. By watching it and seeing some of the interviews and whatnot, you could tell how much of their version of the DC universe was meticulously created from the get-go.

That show is so underrated I never watched it but ending up marathoning it on netflix. I was all for Timm as head of dceu but no one want to see baffleck rooftop sex

 

[Juan1193]

That's fine, but my hope is a rebooted DC franchise without a forced interconnected universe. Though I enjoyed both MOS and the BvS UE, I'm thinking it was a colossal mistake to try and replicate Marvel. WB could have had the same success with separate franchises for Batman, Superman, WW etc...

That would have been an incredibly boring route. I want to see the characters interact with each other not be secluded in their own little worlds. The vast majority of fans want a shared DC universe not a separate ones

 

[DarthSkywalker]

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