Super Villain Civil War

[The Overlord]

Why doesn't Marvel do a super villain civil war story? That might be interesting then what we have now. Super Villains fighting each other is more in character than heroes doing it.

 

[Franklin Richards]

That war was fought a long time ago and Doctor Doom won.

 

[The Overlord]

That war was fought a long time ago and Doctor Doom won.

Cute, but not really. The Intelligentsia tried to kidnap him recently, clearly he hasn't gained total control over the villain community. Not mention the times Red Skull and Stryfe have tried to conquer Latveria. Also Norman Osborn was gunning for Doom near the end of Dark Reign, because felt Doom had betrayed him.

 

[dsfjr1190]

Why would they fight each other when they can take advantage of the fact that the heroes are usually fighting amongst themselves these days?

 

[Dread]

Why would they fight each other when they can take advantage of the fact that the heroes are usually fighting amongst themselves these days?

They hardly ever do that, either.

 

[Franklin Richards]

They kinda already had the villain civil war.

 

[The Overlord]

They kinda already had the villain civil war.

That was just Doom and Magneto, not a huge war between two different factions of super villains. Sure Doom conquered the world through mind control in that issue, but that has not stopped other villains from picking fights with him when not under mind control. Clearly Doom hasn't won some war civil war amongst the super villains, because clearly some villains still want to muss with him.

 

[JewishHobbit]

People messing with Doom doesn't mean squat about a war, especially years after the fact, but to the best of my knowledge there's never been a real Villain civil War. Not to the depth of Civil War or Avengers vs. X-Men.

All I know is I'd like to see the Sinister Community be involved.

 

[runawayboulder]

In the Acts of Vengeance crossover, the villains all ganged up to take on the heroes and a few internal feuds broke out.

I wouldn't care for an event dedicated to a villain civil war. I'd rather see one where either Doom, Thanos or Galactus are the bad guy at the center.

 

[JewishHobbit]

That Captain America issue during Acts of Vengeance where Magneto went after Red Skull was amazing. THAT type of villain civil war would top any of the events we've had in years.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

A villain civil war would be cool, but it wouldn't make much sense given that none of them are united in any way to begin with. They're not like the heroes, who are almost universally just looking to repel any threats that arise to civilians. They have different goals, different methods, different enemies, etc. Why would they feel the need to fight each other when they've largely been content to keep out of each other's way and do their own thing?

 

[The Overlord]

A villain civil war would be cool, but it wouldn't make much sense given that none of them are united in any way to begin with. They're not like the heroes, who are almost universally just looking to repel any threats that arise to civilians. They have different goals, different methods, different enemies, etc. Why would they feel the need to fight each other when they've largely been content to keep out of each other's way and do their own thing?

It doesn't make sense that they would keep out of each other's way though does it? If so many villains have the goal of taking the over the world, then they should other villains with that same goal as competition. There could been several reasons that villains are having a war with each other, two major villains after the same plot device and recruiting other villains to help them or some major villains trying to force villains into a giant army to help conquer the world and other villains trying to resist this press gang program. Super villains have been organized into bigger groups before, all you need is two powerful groups to rise up at the same time and then you would have a battle on your hands.

Frankly even if some major rogues galleries there are some major villains who never seem to interact with each other: Dr. Octopus and Green Goblin hardly seem to interact, Apocalypse and Magneto have never really interacted with each other beside the Twelve storyline and alternate dimensions, despite the fact they have conflicting goals. An event like this can promote some interesting interaction between villains who normally never seem to interact, that worked well Magneto attacked Red Skull at the end of Acts of Vengeance.

Villains getting into a big war with each other makes more sense then the heroes beating up on each other for contrived reasons, like with Civil War and X-Men vs. Avengers. The heroes should trust each other at this point, but the villains have no reason to trust each other.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Most villains don't seem to want to conquer the world, though. They have more specific aims, like destabilizing political situations or getting revenge on one particular hero or any number of other things. I'm not saying there shouldn't be crossovers, just that it's understandable how there could be so few. They need not be automatically expected or anything. Live and let conquer, etc.

 

[mjdiddy1]

I can see a lower level villian civil war but not a 'super' villian civil war. I can't see why Dr Doom, Magneto, Osborne, Red Skull etc would fight each other. I mean out of those super villians one would eventually conqueror the earth and elimnate any threat to their reign including other villians or even make them subservant a'la Age of Apocalypse--that's if they succeed. In other words, any villian capable of conqueroring the world would be capable of eliminating any and all competiton to his/her throne. I could see a Kingpin, Rose, Hood, Cobra, Bullseye, Mysterio etc type of war with that level of villian fighting for control of the criminal underworld though.

 

[The Overlord]

Most villains don't seem to want to conquer the world, though. They have more specific aims, like destabilizing political situations or getting revenge on one particular hero or any number of other things. I'm not saying there shouldn't be crossovers, just that it's understandable how there could be so few. They need not be automatically expected or anything. Live and let conquer, etc.

The major power player super villains do want to take over the world, there is enough of them to cause a fight to brew these would conquerors. Not mention there are several other villains who are just mercenaries who work for the highest bidder and would be willing to work for these world conquerors for the right price. So having two world conquerors who have a grudge against each other or merely have a conflicting goal and are willing to hire a bunch of merc villains to help them, makes a for a civil war between the various super villains.

Whether or not such a needed is besides the point, I just think it be a fun story to tell, to me that is more important then whether such a story is needed or not. I think what's needed is for Marvel's villains to do something important and not be sidelined by some crossover where heroes spend all their time fighting each other. Plus Marvel has never done a story like this before, it would nice to get something that is a new story concept.

I can see a lower level villian civil war but not a 'super' villian civil war. I can't see why Dr Doom, Magneto, Osborne, Red Skull etc would fight each other. I mean out of those super villians one would eventually conqueror the earth and elimnate any threat to their reign including other villians or even make them subservant a'la Age of Apocalypse--that's if they succeed. In other words, any villian capable of conqueroring the world would be capable of eliminating any and all competiton to his/her throne. I could see a Kingpin, Rose, Hood, Cobra, Bullseye, Mysterio etc type of war with that level of villian fighting for control of the criminal underworld though.

Except if there was some plot device that made taking over the world easier and more then one world conquering villain wanted it, then there would be a reason for them to fight. Why not take out the competition right away, rather then have them get in your way later?

 

[shiva666]

I think what we need is villain comics, and not just some comic where the villain saves the world, but how the villain plans and executes and gets thwarted in his own perspective.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Man, I just thought of a whole plot for this and I wish I worked for Marvel.

Key plots:

Villains unite once more but this time achieve their goal of stopping the heroes. In some contrived way they imprison them or get rid of them so that they're out of the picture. These are the core heroes: Avengers, Fantastic Four, X-Men, etc. They didn't bother much with the younger nobodies. They deal with those on the side.

As they gain power and draw lines over the world/USA we begin seeing factions. There are those who crave power and absolute rule working together and dividing things among themselves. I imagine these being the likes of Sinister, Red Skull, Kang, Ultron, etc. The big names. I don't see a leader among them but a Round Table type of councel.

Other villains, however, were more interested in the money, respect, and vengeance. Now that they've attained their goal they're realizing just how messed up some of these bigger named villains are. They're the villains who, on occassion, might show a good side because they aren't all bad. I'd imagine they'd mostly be street-level villains who don't actually want to rule or kill the masses to get their way. I'd imagine the likes of: the Shocker, the Wrecking Crew, Daken, Doc Ock, etc. I can see the crime bosses organizing them, like Kingpin, Hood, and Hammerhead.

Eventually I can see a "hit" being made on one of the crimb bosses, Kingpin likely, but fail and this will launch the Villain Civil War. I can see the "hit" that was supposed to have been called in by the bigger villains actually be done by Daken, or some strategic member of Kingpin's side to kickstart the battle.

During the Villain Civil War I see the heroes who were overlooked, the young ones like the Young Avengers, the Runaways, the New X-Men, the Future Foundation, Avengers Academy, coming together and weaving their way into the war and secretly begin taking out key members of each side... maybe siding with the street level villains at first.

In the end the Villains do each other in with the young, overlooked heroes of the Marvel Universe being the ones to score the big win and getting their senior heroes back from wherever they were sent. Once the heroes are back the Villains will spread and order will be regained.


This would give the young heroes of the Marvel Universe a MUCH needed boost to make them relevant and would likely help them support new ongoings to advance the line and universe. There's always the worry that they can't support their own books and people would jump off if they took over a book, like when Daken took over Wolverine, but if it happens in the middle of a Villain Civil War I think the premise will help keep people reading. So the young heroes could take over the established heroes titles for this event alone.

Avengers Academy and the Future Foundation already have books but besides them:

Alpha could take over Spider-Man
Spider-Girl could take over Avenging Spider-Man
Skaar could take over Incredible Hulk
Lyra could take over Hulk
X-23 could take over Wolverine
Young Allies could take over the Fantastic Four
Young Masters could take over Dark Avengers
Young Avengers could take over the Avengers
Initiative kids could take over New Avengers
Cho, Power-Man, Thunderstrike, Spider-Girl could take over Defenders
Runaways could take over Astonishing X-Men
Utopia's New X-Men could take over Uncanny X-Men
Wolverine's New X-Men could take over Wolverine & the X-Men
Generation Hope could take over X-Men Legacy


You get the gist.

 

[mjdiddy1]

Great idea JH. I like that idea and I always come back to the Age of Apocalypse. In it self, AoA was great but I believe it would have been far greater if it not only rebooted the X-Books but rebooted The Avengers, Fantastic Four, Incredible Hulk, Iron Man etc. If Marvel would do a Villians Civil War it would need to be at least a year long event which affects every title in 616.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Another twist would be if a villain took over each book with the heroes out of the way.

 

[Lord]

Another twist would be if a villain took over each book with the heroes out of the way.

That would be a cool twist

 

[mjdiddy1]

second that

 

[The Question]

I guess my problem with a villain civil war is that it kind of goes from the premise that the villains are a homogenous group to begin with. The only thing they all have in common is that they're *****ebags. I don't really see why Bullseye and Doctor Doom would ever care about each other or what the other person is doing. Exactly what would the factions be and how would they form?

I always thought a proper super villain team up would be way more interesting. Like, back when Magneto was Prime Minister of Genosha, it would have been neat to see Latveria, Genosha, and Atlantis team up in a war of conquest.