Supergirl Supergirl Season 2, Episode 10 "We Can Be Heroes" MAJOR SPOILERS

I think his motivation is winning Kara back by showing her that he is her equal. Unfortunately, he has confused being her equal with being a crime-fighting superhero. And, I agree with whoever who stated here or elsewhere that probably a Kara-James relationship is the showrunners' end game. Which may also be why the writers are on James' side. (It is slightly in character in the sense that even in season 1, he was jealous of Barry for no good reason.)

So, yeah, his treatment of Monel is hypocritical because he is basically doing the "hero" thing for the same reason as Monel. But, is not ready to acknowledge it.

I don't see the point of developing a romance by character assassinating the stakeholders, but oh well!:huh:

Kreisberg himself said that that was something they were moving toward in the first season, but realized that that really wasn't the direction they wanted to go, hence why they so abruptly ended it before it started...they (the writers) were not feeling the relationship. I don't see that changing.
 
The scene with J'onn and M'gann in her mind was the highlight of the ep for me, David Harewood is always gold but I thounght Sharon Leal was great as well and it has set up a future White Martian storyline.

Winn is practically bi-polar when it comes to the whole Guardian thing, one minute he's fretting, wants to tell Kara and wants out, the next he's all giddy as a teenage boy seeing his first Playboy and hiding things from Kara and the DEO.

Jimmy and Mon-El looked like a right couple of putz's when they got zapped and tied up. :funny: Kara not wanting him to be The Guardian is one thing but I don't think she would tell human's they shouldn't be heroes and get in the trenches, logically I would have thought it would make sense for Alex to train him at the DEO since he's going to do it regardless.

That little scene at the end was sweet. :atp:
 
She didn't tell him he couldn't be a hero.....or even get in the trenches....she saw right through him, he wants to be her and Clark, and is passed beyond understanding that he can't be MonEl. What he wants (as he comes across right now is to be a SUPERhero...and to be seen in the same light as Kara. Fact and truth is, that won't happen, he will get himself killed however trying to get there....and that is, for all practical purposes what Kara told him. AND that he is in fact a hero.....but that isn't truly what he desires. IMHO
 
The first conflict of Jimmy/Kara in this episode seemed like a better setup than Batman V Superman, honestly. At least better motivated.

David Harewood was great in this episode. (he usually is, when he's not yelling "IM THE CYBORG SUPERMAN"). His line about "I will not give them the memories of my daughters" was fantastic, and his interactions inside M'ganns mind.
 
^ David Harewood is probably my favorite actor on the show, the gravitas he brings to the role is just amazing. And if he weren't MM, I could probably see him as the John Stewart version of Green Lantern.
 
Can't they write him out of the series like Katie Cassidy? And if he wants to guest star every now and then, he can be an alternate earth version of himself as John Henry Irons.

Nah. They've gone this far, I want them to go all the way. Jimmy needs to become a supervillain. And they even have Cadmus around to provide some ill-advised phlebotinum.

I'm thinking something like:

-Winn stops providing him technical support, maybe because he gets hospitalized by Jimmy's recklessness
-Jimmy is desperate to keep being Guardian, with increasingly scant rationalizations
-Jimmy steals some captured Cadmus supertech ( maybe a dose of the Metallo serum stuff ), and uses it
-Things go wrong
-The heroes try to help save him, but he rejects their help "Because they just want to take it all away"
-Gets some gunpoint assistance from Cadmus to stabilize it, while also hearing some of their ideology
-Basically decides that on some level, Cadmus is right, the aliens think they are better than humans, and want to keep us down
-Blames former friends for current twisted and mutated state, swears vengeance
 
Kreisberg himself said that that was something they were moving toward in the first season, but realized that that really wasn't the direction they wanted to go, hence why they so abruptly ended it before it started...they (the writers) were not feeling the relationship. I don't see that changing.

Oh, thank god! I was really hoping they weren't doing some long turnaround. They (Kara-James) just never fit. I would have been 'alright' with it had they continued it, but now I'm glad I don't have to be.

Poor James just never had much of a story-arc, and after zeroing out the romance, he was left with pretty much nothing. I think they should have made him into a Cat-style mentor character for Kara, especially as when he first showed up it was to help Kara find her way as Supergirl.

I feel he would have so much better continuing in that mentor role rather than just becoming yet another superhero's side-kick. And sadly, if he's not on I don't miss him, and when he is on it's more like the writers are trying to justify his presence...
 
Nah. They've gone this far, I want them to go all the way. Jimmy needs to become a supervillain. And they even have Cadmus around to provide some ill-advised phlebotinum.

I'm thinking something like:

-Winn stops providing him technical support, maybe because he gets hospitalized by Jimmy's recklessness
-Jimmy is desperate to keep being Guardian, with increasingly scant rationalizations
-Jimmy steals some captured Cadmus supertech ( maybe a dose of the Metallo serum stuff ), and uses it
-Things go wrong
-The heroes try to help save him, but he rejects their help "Because they just want to take it all away"
-Gets some gunpoint assistance from Cadmus to stabilize it, while also hearing some of their ideology
-Basically decides that on some level, Cadmus is right, the aliens think they are better than humans, and want to keep us down
-Blames former friends for current twisted and mutated state, swears vengeance

I would like this a lot. It'd give the story some sense. But, what was said about him finding a role beyond being Kara's boyfriend. Isn't his job as a Photo Journalist and head/whatever of CatCo that role?
 
I would like this a lot. It'd give the story some sense. But, what was said about him finding a role beyond being Kara's boyfriend. Isn't his job as a Photo Journalist and head/whatever of CatCo that role?

I guess in the producers minds just being a photo journalist doesn't give James much chance or reason to punch people in the face. Why have a big hunky guy if you can't make him into an action hero?
The only other alternative for having a big hunky guy is to make him the love interest and now that that role has been dumped, action hero is the only thing left to do with James.
 
She didn't tell him he couldn't be a hero.....or even get in the trenches....she saw right through him, he wants to be her and Clark, and is passed beyond understanding that he can't be MonEl. What he wants (as he comes across right now is to be a SUPERhero...and to be seen in the same light as Kara. Fact and truth is, that won't happen, he will get himself killed however trying to get there....and that is, for all practical purposes what Kara told him. AND that he is in fact a hero.....but that isn't truly what he desires. IMHO

That wasn't how it came over to me, Jimmy seems to want to do more than just give pep talks and do research, he's itching to get involved and be more proactive, and while I know Kara is mainly worried he's going to get hurt, the powers excuse didn't ring true to me, I mean Alex and Maggie are fighting without powers and she just met Oliver who does what she does and is a hero. At this point Kara knows she can't stop him so the most logical thing would be to have Alex train him, I just don't see the pay-off of this arc being Jimmy going "Yeah, I'm just jealous and feel inadequate so I'm over compensating, I'll go back to my desk now." or him getting killed.

I feel sorry for Mechad, in season 1 people didn't care for Jimmy as they didn't feel any chemistry with him and Kara and he was so flip floppy with Lucy and came off as a lovesivck puppy at times. Now people don't want him as Guardian, either because they don't buy him due to his lack of any training, or they don't want him eating into Kara's action time, poor dude can't win lol.
 
That wasn't how it came over to me, Jimmy seems to want to do more than just give pep talks and do research, he's itching to get involved and be more proactive, and while I know Kara is mainly worried he's going to get hurt, the powers excuse didn't ring true to me, I mean Alex and Maggie are fighting without powers and she just met Oliver who does what she does and is a hero. At this point Kara knows she can't stop him so the most logical thing would be to have Alex train him, I just don't see the pay-off of this arc being Jimmy going "Yeah, I'm just jealous and feel inadequate so I'm over compensating, I'll go back to my desk now." or him getting killed.

I feel sorry for Mechad, in season 1 people didn't care for Jimmy as they didn't feel any chemistry with him and Kara and he was so flip floppy with Lucy and came off as a lovesivck puppy at times. Now people don't want him as Guardian, either because they don't buy him due to his lack of any training, or they don't want him eating into Kara's action time, poor dude can't win lol.

The power excuse does...because he is not equal to Maggie or Alex, in that he does not carry a gun that can kill someone instantly. He is not wanting to be Alex or Maggie, he wants to be like Kara and Clark, and he cannot because he does not have the power that they have that can withstand the trauma they have to withstand in order to not kill in every instance, killing someone is not on their choice list...it is on Maggie's and Alex's choice list.

The pay off won't be him saying....yep I was just jealous......nor do I necessarily think he thinks that way. What I'm saying is, that is how he is being written and coming off to the viewers. The pay off at this point would either turn him into a villain, which OMG would be so dramatic and cool, or he dies in the line of duty. That is just how I see it.... I don't see the viewership being happy with him as a hero, it is just not out there in general, or majority.
 
The power excuse does...because he is not equal to Maggie or Alex, in that he does not carry a gun that can kill someone instantly. He is not wanting to be Alex or Maggie, he wants to be like Kara and Clark, and he cannot because he does not have the power that they have that can withstand the trauma they have to withstand in order to not kill in every instance, killing someone is not on their choice list...it is on Maggie's and Alex's choice list.

The pay off won't be him saying....yep I was just jealous......nor do I necessarily think he thinks that way. What I'm saying is, that is how he is being written and coming off to the viewers. The pay off at this point would either turn him into a villain, which OMG would be so dramatic and cool, or he dies in the line of duty. That is just how I see it.... I don't see the viewership being happy with him as a hero, it is just not out there in general, or majority.

Not killing is a choice many heroes without powers make though, so I don't see that as a viable reason either personally.

I honestly can't say that is how he's coming off to me, he's just going through a standard heroes journey in my eyes, but him going heel would certainly be intriguing, although I can't see that happening, him dying would be a sucky end to his arc and an odd one given Alex was happy enough to throw Winn into the field on an alien planet with no training and no weapons, encouraging him to step up with even less training and less physical aptiitude than Jimmy. I dunno, I agree though that the general feedback suggests he's not going to be accepted as Guardian and an in the field hero by the fanbase, in the way Thea and Laurtel were on Arrow or Wally and Cisco currently are on The Flash.
 
Thing is, the Guardian thing was too fast. It took, what, three episodes to go from photographer to superhero?

They could've done something more gradual, more developed and, ultimately, much more satisfying. Instead of just breaking his (I wanna say dad's?) camera, have Jimmy get injured in the process. Have him on a wheelchair or walking with a cane for a few episodes. Feeling helpless, broken. He fights and willpowers his way through his recovery. Asks Alex to train him, he doesn't wanna feel helpless anymore. Then, Jimmy starts spending his nights as a vigilante, beating up thugs (throw in a cool comic book nickname like Gangbuster). He's a bit too violent, though, still dealing with psychological trauma from his attack. Ultimately, Sugpergirl -not loving this Gangbuster fella- confronts and unmasks him. Kara makes him see this is not the way. Jimmy accepts. He goes back to training with Alex (or maybe Kara, or both!). Season finale then comes and, after taking down Cadmus, Jimmy finds something in what remains of it: a golden shield. Looks at it and smiles.

Then you get a proper Guardian in S3, working alongside Supergirl or as the new Cadmus (under Lena Luthor) personal superhero.
 
God I hate been behind in the UK. Finally saw this one.

Mon El's suit looks like crap

Kara is full of s*** having a go at James. No I don't like James been the Guardian but Kara has zero right to say anything to him. This is the second time on this series I've gotten this annoyed with her (the other was the way she initially treated Mon El). The writers have made a mistake here for me. I'm not saying she should have just accepted but maybe she could have understood more.

I wasn't expecting the twist that the Livewire soldiers weren't working with her. That was a nice twist. The only part of the episode I actually liked. It went to hell from there, the scientist with yellow lightning was dreadful.

I hated the conclusion with Kara letting Livewire go. The speech and everything just didn't work for me.

I have to admit I didn't really care about the M'ggan storyline but hopefully in upcoming episodes I'll care more as it's clearly leading to something bigger.

I'm finding the series very hit and (mainly) miss with its subplots tbh. They don't seem to be able to get the pacing right with anything and it's effecting the drama aspects. I actually feel like season one of Supergirl overall was a better show. The series now has too many recurring characters and it's really effecting the show imo.

This ones a mediocre 5 for me, this just might be the worst episode of the series. Livewire's return was very disappointing. I hope her return whenever that is will be more in line with her previous two appearances.
 
Not killing is a choice many heroes without powers make though, so I don't see that as a viable reason either personally.

I honestly can't say that is how he's coming off to me, he's just going through a standard heroes journey in my eyes, but him going heel would certainly be intriguing, although I can't see that happening, him dying would be a sucky end to his arc and an odd one given Alex was happy enough to throw Winn into the field on an alien planet with no training and no weapons, encouraging him to step up with even less training and less physical aptiitude than Jimmy. I dunno, I agree though that the general feedback suggests he's not going to be accepted as Guardian and an in the field hero by the fanbase, in the way Thea and Laurtel were on Arrow or Wally and Cisco currently are on The Flash.

For someone besides James, sure....I would go with your thinking. But the way he is being written, he wants to be Superman, he wants to be like Supergirl. "I wasn't meant to be in Superman's shadow, or your shadow..." tells me he sees himself in that suit as their equals. He is not.... It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he is a hero, it has nothing to do with how manly he is, or how tough he is.....it is a mindset that is going to get him killed.

As far as Alex an Winn, she was absolutely stupid for doing that......and the writers should be slammed for writing that kind of crap.

It seems like they are writing some pretty ridiculous stuff in order to get actors screen time....that scene, and Guardian as a whole is an example of that.
 
Thing is, the Guardian thing was too fast. It took, what, three episodes to go from photographer to superhero?

They could've done something more gradual, more developed and, ultimately, much more satisfying. Instead of just breaking his (I wanna say dad's?) camera, have Jimmy get injured in the process. Have him on a wheelchair or walking with a cane for a few episodes. Feeling helpless, broken. He fights and willpowers his way through his recovery. Asks Alex to train him, he doesn't wanna feel helpless anymore. Then, Jimmy starts spending his nights as a vigilante, beating up thugs (throw in a cool comic book nickname like Gangbuster). He's a bit too violent, though, still dealing with psychological trauma from his attack. Ultimately, Sugpergirl -not loving this Gangbuster fella- confronts and unmasks him. Kara makes him see this is not the way. Jimmy accepts. He goes back to training with Alex (or maybe Kara, or both!). Season finale then comes and, after taking down Cadmus, Jimmy finds something in what remains of it: a golden shield. Looks at it and smiles.

Then you get a proper Guardian in S3, working alongside Supergirl or as the new Cadmus (under Lena Luthor) personal superhero.

Something like that would work, sure. Which just highlights one of the many problems with the Guardian plot: Jimmy had, and still has, basically no real skills, and hasn't done anything about that. He's the lazy man's superhero. At least when Laurel decided to become the Black Canary, she actually went out of her way to find people to train her.
 
Mon El's suit looks like crap
That's not his "suit." Winn just started working on Mon-El's suit. He was just wearing basic DEO garb this ep since he's officially in training now. The glasses were dumb though, I'll agree there.
 
Nah. They've gone this far, I want them to go all the way. Jimmy needs to become a supervillain. And they even have Cadmus around to provide some ill-advised phlebotinum.

Sounds good to me. And The Guardian was associated with CADMUS, so having him become their "muscle" (i.e. replacement for Cyborg Superman) would be fine. And it would tie into the ongoing CADMUS storyline in a stronger manner. Heck, Jimmy could even initially align with CADMUS as a double agent (i.e. to get intel about Jeremiah), but then he becomes seduced by CADMUS and their ideology about strengthening humans to be a match for super powered aliens. It would be MUCH more interesting and even slightly plausible given how egotistical this version of Jimmy is and how much he seems to resent Superman and Supergirl for keeping him in their shadow.
 
For someone besides James, sure....I would go with your thinking. But the way he is being written, he wants to be Superman, he wants to be like Supergirl. "I wasn't meant to be in Superman's shadow, or your shadow..." tells me he sees himself in that suit as their equals. He is not.... It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he is a hero, it has nothing to do with how manly he is, or how tough he is.....it is a mindset that is going to get him killed.

As far as Alex an Winn, she was absolutely stupid for doing that......and the writers should be slammed for writing that kind of crap.

It seems like they are writing some pretty ridiculous stuff in order to get actors screen time....that scene, and Guardian as a whole is an example of that.

I think he has been inspired by them rather than being jealous of them, he wants to contribute more than being a cog I guess, but it doesn't put him in the most flattering of lights as he does keep wanting to be accepted, like he's doing it to gain recognition of sorts, it's a weird arc in truth, very oddly done as on one hand you have those scenes where you get the undertones of how you feel about it, then you have him being showcased as cool and heroic in action, and like he earnestly wants to make a difference, like I say I can't see a pay-off unless Winn gets badly hurt due to helping him and Jimmy has to face some home truths. I still think from a writing perspective they are making Kara's stance illogical though, she has accepted she can't stop him and yet doesn't want to work with him to help keep him safe and doesn't suggest he train like Alex to improve his combat skills to increase his chances of survival, instead she's just going to ignore them and come what may.

With the Winn scene I felt for Chlyer as it forced Alex into being stupid and unprofessional, something she has never been depicted as before, as an actress that has to be furstrating, and it trivialized what happened to Winn when a gun was seconds from blowing his face off.

I agree, in the case of Winn it was a misjudgement in rushing a potentially interesting arc to a ludicrous conclusion, but with the Guardian stuff it's like they set out their plan for the season to try and reinvent Jimmy and it's failed miserably, I mean I don't hate it, I am just apaehtic to it, but in general the view on it mirrors yours.
 
I don't think he is jealous of Superman and Supergirl at all and yes there probably is quite a bit of inspiration from them but my point is his desire to be like them is getting in the way of his ability to think and therefore he isn't thinking at all that's going to get him killed or hurt at the least. He is however jealous as hell of Mon El.

And I don't believe his motives for becoming guardian are simply because he's inspired by Superman and Supergirl I think he has felt left out and is jealous of the time that they are spending together with others and he is not a part of that core group anymore I do think there's jealousy in that . And how he treated Winn when he was hurt showed that his number one priority is getting guardian in the newspapers and the desire to do good has become secondary to that though I do believe it was definitely a major part of why he started in the first place . However either the writing is just bad and that is not coming across only the jealousy and pettiness or that is exactly how they are wanting to portray him at this time for something later on to happen .
 
I don't think he is jealous of Superman and Supergirl at all and yes there probably is quite a bit of inspiration from them but my point is his desire to be like them is getting in the way of his ability to think and therefore he isn't thinking at all that's going to get him killed or hurt at the least. He is however jealous as hell of Mon El.

And I don't believe his motives for becoming guardian are simply because he's inspired by Superman and Supergirl I think he has felt left out and is jealous of the time that they are spending together with others and he is not a part of that core group anymore I do think there's jealousy in that . And how he treated Winn when he was hurt showed that his number one priority is getting guardian in the newspapers and the desire to do good has become secondary to that though I do believe it was definitely a major part of why he started in the first place . However either the writing is just bad and that is not coming across only the jealousy and pettiness or that is exactly how they are wanting to portray him at this time for something later on to happen .

If your read of the arc is right then really the only logical course is for Jimmy to become a villain, to use a Star Wars analogy the way you describe Jimmy he's definitely on the path to the dark side. The other option would be Winn gets hurt badly and he wakes up but that's kinda bland IMO and does nothing for the character of Jimmy, he might be more interesting if he goes right off the rails and has to find his way back.

Of course if it is just a case of the writing letting down the arc then it's the same thing they've done to Kara and Alex within this whole thing, neither have reacted in a way that fits their characters as we've come to know them.

The Mon-El jealousy is more traditional than superhero related I think lol.
 
The problem is I feel like there's a disconnect between what's intended with this arc, and what's coming across. I think Kelly's read IS correct, based on what's been presented, but I don't think that matches the writers' intentions at all. Their terrible writing of Kara's argument against him all but proved that to me.

Unfortunately, I'm fairly sure we're gonna see James vindicated and justified in Kara's eyes, as if he's been in the right and noble and true all along.
 
That's not his "suit." Winn just started working on Mon-El's suit. He was just wearing basic DEO garb this ep since he's officially in training now. The glasses were dumb though, I'll agree there.

Well that's something then, thank god
 
Well that's something then, thank god
Small victories, lol.

Incidentally, my feelings on this episode were the exact opposite of yours. It was one of my favorites of the series, and the first time I've actually enjoyed Livewire. Only part I hated was the Kara/James stuff, but hey, their dynamics have been the weakest spot of this show for me from the very beginning, so I guess even though I hate it for completely different reasons now, it's just par for the course for me at this point.
 
If your read of the arc is right then really the only logical course is for Jimmy to become a villain, to use a Star Wars analogy the way you describe Jimmy he's definitely on the path to the dark side. The other option would be Winn gets hurt badly and he wakes up but that's kinda bland IMO and does nothing for the character of Jimmy, he might be more interesting if he goes right off the rails and has to find his way back.

Of course if it is just a case of the writing letting down the arc then it's the same thing they've done to Kara and Alex within this whole thing, neither have reacted in a way that fits their characters as we've come to know them.

The Mon-El jealousy is more traditional than superhero related I think lol.


I would love for James to become a villain, absolutely....that would make for a fantastic part of the finale.

As far as Kara and Alex, to me they are in totally different times in their lives than season 1, so therefore their character arcs need to show that. I still think Kara at the heart of her character is still the same as shown in ep. 9....as far as Alex, as sometimes happens in huge paradigm changes in our lives we are completely upended, and I think that is happening to her, that should chill very soon IMO.

As far as James jealous of Mon-El, I think it is on many different levels.
 

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