Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - Part 51

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15-20 minutes of horror and carnage? That's just not true. Right before the car tumbles out of the tree, Grant and Tim have a humorous exchange about how their dad's never built them treehouses. Right before Tim gets electrocuted we see Grant pretending to be shocked to illicit laughter from the kids.
Before the car on the tree there's 15 minutes of the t-rex.
I never said it was a 1:1 comparison, but to say it "isn't remotely the same" is just dishonest.
It's not dishonest. In JP, humor is used very sparingly, unlike good portion of MCU. The movie always commits to it's thrills. And joking between thrilling moments isn't even the worst offender in MCU, joking right after emotional moments - that's what I hate. They had to interrupt a serious moment between Gamor and Starlord in Infinity War with a chewing Drax.
 
There's a distinction at least in emphasis. Jurassic Park being an action adventure with humorous, tension-breaking moments, and Ragnarok being an action comedy that draws pretty heavily on slapstick and parody.

But that's the problem with generalizing about the Marvel Studios releases, as doing that paints an increasingly inaccurate picture of what is happening in each film. The comedy in Ragnarok is not relief from something else. It's a comedy, that is the main thing.
 
One thing that helped Ragnarok is that the jokes were genuinely funny. Those seeking to copy Marvel should take note.

Yep, that's one of the reasons why Ragnarok caught on so well with the GA as well as the usual CBM crowd. It's a genuinely funny, positive, feel good movie with tons of action and spectacle, as well as genuinely likeable characters. It's the kind of movie that has a crazy rewatchability factor, I can stick it on when I'm feeling a bit down in the dumps and it'll always cheer me right up without fail. It reminds me more of the big action/fantasy/adventure blockbusters of the 80's rather than the modern day equivalent, which clearly was the point and because of that it evokes a wonderful sense of nostalgia, especially for those that are 80's kids like myself.

I just love it, it's not only one of my favourite CBM's of all time but also one of my favourite movies full stop. I pray that Lord Feige finds a way to get Waititi back to direct another MCU film one day.
 
OutofBoose said:
Before the car on the tree there's 15 minutes of the t-rex.

Of which Malcolm is spouting one-liners throughout.

*Gennaro runs away in terror to hide in the washroom.*
Malcolm: "Well when you gotta go, you gotta go."
 
Before the car on the tree there's 15 minutes of the t-rex.

Okay? And despite what you tried to claim, there's another humorous moment between Tim and Grant in the tree before the one I originally mentioned, which was my point.

It's not dishonest. In JP, humor is used very sparingly, unlike good portion of MCU. The movie always commits to it's thrills. And joking between thrilling moments isn't even the worst offender in MCU, joking right after emotional moments - that's what I hate. They had to interrupt a serious moment between Gamor and Starlord in Infinity War with a chewing Drax.

Is it actually used "very sparingly", though?

You tried to counter my original examples by claiming those moments came after long stretches without any jokes, but I've already mentioned two other jokes that preceded them so I'm not sure how you can keep saying that this isn't a fair comparison. Kahran just brought up another example. You're free to continue disagreeing, but I think you should go back and rewatch JP.

Again, I never said that Marvel uses humor in the exact same way that JP does. I just drew a comparison, because JP has a good amount of humor sprinkled throughout. I'll just go ahead and repost what I originally said because I think you missed it:

That's not to say that Marvel always employs humor as successfully as Spielberg
 
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Of which Malcolm is spouting one-liners throughout.

*Gennaro runs away in terror to hide in the washroom.*
Malcolm: "Well when you gotta go, you gotta go."
Compare that to the destruction of Asgard scene.
 
Compare that to the destruction of Asgard scene.

Grant, Ellie, and the kids barely escape with their lives from the Velociraptors and the T-Rex at the Visitor's Center as the park is collapsing all around them, along with Hammond's dream.

Grant: "Hammond, after careful consideration, I have decided not to endorse your park."
Hammond: "So have I."
 
I think trying to determine or prove the "correct" amount of humor to employ in a blockbuster is a fool's errand. Spoiler alert: the limit does not exist. Humor either works for people or it doesn't. There's no formula for achieving the former, and even what generally works won't work for everyone. That's why comedy is so notorious for being the most difficult thing to write. For example, that Drax moment OOB just complained about in Infinity War: Every audience I saw that movie with absolutely ate that moment up. So it may not have worked for OOB, but it seemed to work for a lot of other people. People like all sorts of different styles of humor. One style includes cracking jokes after emotional moments to relieve tension. Some people like that, others don't. Oh well, neither group is likely to change, because no one can consciously control what tickles their funny bone.
 
I think trying to determine or prove the "correct" amount of humor to employ in a blockbuster is a fool's errand. Spoiler alert: the limit does not exist. Humor either works for people or it doesn't. There's no formula for achieving the former, and even what generally works won't work for everyone. That's why comedy is so notorious for being the most difficult thing to write. For example, that Drax moment OOB just complained about in Infinity War: Every audience I saw that movie with absolutely ate that moment up. So it may not have worked for OOB, but it seemed to work for a lot of other people. People like all sorts of different styles of humor. One style includes cracking jokes after emotional moments to relieve tension. Some people like that, others don't. Oh well, neither group is likely to change, because no one can consciously control what tickles their funny bone.

That's a bingo!
 
I think trying to determine or prove the "correct" amount of humor to employ in a blockbuster is a fool's errand. Spoiler alert: the limit does not exist. Humor either works for people or it doesn't. There's no formula for achieving the former, and even what generally works won't work for everyone. That's why comedy is so notorious for being the most difficult thing to write. For example, that Drax moment OOB just complained about in Infinity War: Every audience I saw that movie with absolutely ate that moment up. So it may not have worked for OOB, but it seemed to work for a lot of other people. People like all sorts of different styles of humor. One style includes cracking jokes after emotional moments to relieve tension. Some people like that, others don't. Oh well, neither group is likely to change, because no one can consciously control what tickles their funny bone.

Heresy and lies!!! I have a graph and pie chart that tells me what is funny. Never fails :o
 
Grant, Ellie, and the kids barely escape with their lives from the Velociraptors and the T-Rex at the Visitor's Center as the park is collapsing all around them, along with Hammond's dream.

Grant: "Hammond, after careful consideration, I have decided not to endorse your park."
Hammond: "So have I."
They already escaped. The thrill scene isn't interrupted by a humorous scene.
 
They already escaped. The thrill scene isn't interrupted by a humorous scene.

They already had in Ragnarok too.

They were actually further along in Ragnarok as they were already on the ship and leaving, whereas in Jurassic Park the line occurs as Grant is running out the front door away from the T-Rex and jumping in the Jeep.
 
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Bad move getting Johns

Why do you say that?

Is there anything tangible we can judge his screenwriting ability on? Honest question, because from what I recall the only movie he had an actual hand in from the jump was Wonder Woman and that turned out well.
 
He had a hand in the first Green Lantern movie as well.
 
He had a hand in the first Green Lantern movie as well.

From everything I had heard in the years since GL (and this could easily be spin but I haven't found anything to refute it) he only served as a glorified consultant and hypeman with no real influence beyond that.

I could be wrong though.
 
I can't remember which article it was, but he along with many others at DC were fighting over which cut to use in the editing room.
 
Why do you say that?

Is there anything tangible we can judge his screenwriting ability on? Honest question, because from what I recall the only movie he had an actual hand in from the jump was Wonder Woman and that turned out well.


Johns also had a hand in one of the bigger missteps of the Flash TV show (insisting on Silver Age villain weapons for the Rogues) and everything he writes for the Arrowverse he's a co-writer, and nothing he's worked on with them seems to be elevated to filmic level. This echoes the relationship that the Green Lantern writers described (of an earlier draft) of collaborating with him while they wrote.

Looking at what we got with GL and the episodes of Flash and Arrow he co wrote, and the notable similarities between them, I imagine his scripts are like his comics, full of silver agey comic book elements and nearly incomprehensible emotionally and in terms of real world cause and effect. He's a comic book writer. He's a really good one, and he has that audience down pat. He has not shown any ability to adapt to live action, and honestly, I feel like he's so good and confident in what he does do, he's simply not aware when it's harmful to what's happening with real actors and SFX. He should be the 'voice of the fans' producer, and be easily outvoted when it's time to move things forward from 1975.
 
There's a world of difference between writing for a comic book / graphic novel & a screenplay.
 
This echoes the relationship that the Green Lantern writers described (of an earlier draft) of collaborating with him while they wrote.

Wait, that actually rings a bell. Do you have a link to anything similar to that? I recall reading something about people being frustrated while writing the film because Johns kept insisting on certain elements, including Parallax. But again, this is from like 7 years ago so I can't remember anything beyond that.

I really do want to be optimistic about this news considering how awesome a Green Lantern movie could and should be.
 
Why do you say that?

Is there anything tangible we can judge his screenwriting ability on? Honest question, because from what I recall the only movie he had an actual hand in from the jump was Wonder Woman and that turned out well.

I think they should focus on movie people and getting them on board with comics, rather than getting comic people and getting them on board with movies

And from a comic sense I do like the beginnings of his stuff with GL and I love his Wally West stuff but other than that he's been hit or miss with me
 
He's involved in the making of the mediocre CW DCTV shows, so I don't find much confidence in Geoff Johns as a film guiding hands.
 
There's a world of difference between writing for a comic book / graphic novel & a screenplay.

Agreed. And I don't think he has proven himself outside of comics so this news is pretty meh.

So rumors are spreading that Ben will probably be replaced as Batman. This news makes me happy. Hopefully we find a better option. I also hope the Batman is also a reboot and not just a recast.
 
All of his praised episodes have been fairly mediocre, imo.

Some creatives should not be in management positions. Especially Johns, as he has kind of screwed up the DC slate with his pet project, Doomsday Clock.
 
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