Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 52

[Lencho01]

They're certainly better off growing out of Supes because they've covered more ground regarding him than I ever thought possible.

For a cinematic universe, I too have said before that I'm not big on the episodic approach. I'd rather see a more continuous story because sprinkled in connections isn't going to do much for me looking to see characters and story grow. I have also made the connection to IM2, difference is I prefer their "IM2" because it's more thorough and actually eventful.

But the animated series I stick around with have a serialized enough quality to them whether things develop in the foreground or background. This means the few Marvel shows right before Ultimate S-M and its universe took over, which is closer to the MCU than I would like. Phase 3 has definitely gotten better about it.

I don't think they've done much with Superman. For me it's more like "a whole lot of nothing" in that sure, there was much story since they've had him in three films so far, but it didn't amount to much for me. And there's a lot of stuff they could've touched for us to see on the big screen for the first time that they didn't do or didn't do well enough. But, that's just me.

I still find the world building to be rough when it came to IM2. With how WB went about it, I feel it's the same level. But, I can see how one could view it as being smoother than the IM2 approach.

Oh, ok. Yeah, I see what you mean in terms of episodic mixed with serialized approach when the story calls for it. To be honest, part of me felt after the TDKT, WB would've tried to have successful trilogies for their characters. At least with Supes, WW, and whatever new Batman they would've eventually created (that wasn't Batfleck at the time). And then eventually some JL film (maybe before the new Batman trilogy). Kinda like how the DCAU grew beyond BTAS over time.

 

[2kt09]

Oh, ok. Yeah, I see what you mean in terms of episodic mixed with serialized approach when the story calls for it. To be honest, part of me felt after the TDKT, WB would've tried to have successful trilogies for their characters. At least with Supes, WW, and whatever new Batman they would've eventually created (that wasn't Batfleck at the time). And then eventually some JL film (maybe before the new Batman trilogy). Kinda like how the DCAU grew beyond BTAS over time.

That still would mean leaving the other leaguers out of the solo equation and just letting some out of left-field character get his/her own series.
If there's anything worth learning from a slate standpoint based on DC's animated output is sticking to ensemble teams since with every Batman show, there was a Legion of Superheroes or Teen Titans or Young Justice or GLTAS.

 

[Zarex]

Though I would love for the Marvel rights to revert, a lot of the content Disney sought to acquire from Rupert seemed "off brand" (and much more expensive) in comparison to Iger's earlier acquisitions of Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm. Disney could expand into prestige dramas, horror flicks and R rated action movies, but why invest into areas in which you have no strategic advantage? The best case scenario may be for Iger to propose breaking off Marvel & Star Wars rights in lieu of a bidding war and let the bulk of Murdoch's empire go to Kabletown.

 

[honestbharani]

Willfull ignorance as much I get the other Leaguers haven't gotten their stories. Instead of something like TiH they established that sanctioned Superman substitute.

I am not sure if I completely got what you meant here but honestly. I do think the characters in JL were underdeveloped because they never really built an expansive universe in the movies previous. Hopefully that changes with the coming slate but does not alter the fact that they have built very little so far and inspite of Fury's big week being just a week, that still had enough scope and expanse to build a HUGE universe.



On a related note, if you guys have not checked out Fatman on Batman the latest episode, please do so. Kevin and Marc interview Markus and McFeely and it is awesome, especially their advice on fixing Dr. Doom and the DCEU.

 

[Sithborg]

Though I would love for the Marvel rights to revert, a lot of the content Disney sought to acquire from Rupert seemed "off brand" (and much more expensive) in comparison to Iger's earlier acquisitions of Pixar, Marvel and Lucasfilm. Disney could expand into prestige dramas, horror flicks and R rated action movies, but why invest into areas in which you have no strategic advantage? The best case scenario may be for Iger to propose breaking off Marvel & Star Wars rights in lieu of a bidding war and let the bulk of Murdoch's empire go to Kabletown.

sigh

That fanboys continue to see this deal entirely in the lens of geek properties shows just how bad they are at business. I seem to recall a lot of what Disney was interested had nothing to do with Marvel and Star Wars. Disney would essentially get a controlling stake in Hulu and there were some key sports stuff they wanted to prop ESPN up with. The Fox library, all of those TV shows and movies (trust me, Fox has a **** ton of movies) are also key for them to get their own online service up and running.

 

[2kt09]

I am not sure if I completely got what you meant here but honestly. I do think the characters in JL were underdeveloped because they never really built an expansive universe in the movies previous. Hopefully that changes with the coming slate but does not alter the fact that they have built very little so far and inspite of Fury's big week being just a week, that still had enough scope and expanse to build a HUGE universe.

In that the trinity for example is established. As a movie, I prefer WW to MoS, but I'd be lying if I said Superman hasn't been established.

Fury's big week boils down to here's what's on the news and he or rather whats his face on AoS, Caulson, is just chasing a storm so to speak. If these events happen so close to each other 1. that just feels so damn coincidental 2. why isn't a bigger deal made out of them? Obviously the answer is these men in black are here to cover up.
Thinking back to the discussion about how The Avengers weren't really made up of mostly established heroes in-universe.

In the DCEU, Aquaman is cited as that's his first weekend as Aquaman. Cyborg was supposed to be built up the most in JL since his origin is so intertwined to the mcguffin.

 

[Flint Marko]

sigh

That fanboys continue to see this deal entirely in the lens of geek properties shows just how bad they are at business. I seem to recall a lot of what Disney was interested had nothing to do with Marvel and Star Wars. Disney would essentially get a controlling stake in Hulu and there were some key sports stuff they wanted to prop ESPN up with. The Fox library, all of those TV shows and movies (trust me, Fox has a **** ton of movies) are also key for them to get their own online service up and running.

......does anyone here claim to be "good" at business?

We as superhero fans on a superhero message board are going to primarily discuss things like this through the lens of how it effects superhero movies.

 

[MadVillainy]

On another note reviews of Luke Cage season 2 are trickling in. Seems like you can copy and paste every review post JJs2 (save for IF) and apply it to every series

I'll be checking it out tho

 

[Zarex]

sigh

That fanboys continue to see this deal entirely in the lens of geek properties shows just how bad they are at business. I seem to recall a lot of what Disney was interested had nothing to do with Marvel and Star Wars. Disney would essentially get a controlling stake in Hulu and there were some key sports stuff they wanted to prop ESPN up with. The Fox library, all of those TV shows and movies (trust me, Fox has a **** ton of movies) are also key for them to get their own online service up and running.

Cough - Yeah, the very idea of folks on the Superhero Cinematic Civil War thread within the Superherohype message board primarily being interested in geek properties! Crazy!

A heady business fella like yourself may want to keep up with these goings on - Disney and Comcast are both willing to divest the RSNs if the deal goes down, and a lot of the FOX stuff is a better fit for Hulu than its top streaming priority, Disneyflix.

I'm not convinced Disney should try to be all things to all people with its streaming efforts, which is concern some other non fanboy good at business analysts have.

 

[The Guard]

This is a very real concern. See X-Men: First Class, for example.

I don't get the comparison. Wasn't FIRST CLASS financially and critically successful?

 

[Erzengel]

I don't get the comparison. Wasn't FIRST CLASS financially and critically successful?

Well, it grossed over $350M WW. I don't think it blew the doors off the box office.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't get the comparison. Wasn't FIRST CLASS financially and critically successful?

Personally I think it's the best X-men movie by a country mile, but it's the second lowest grossing of the franchise both domestically and overseas. The franchise still had that Ratner/Origins stink on it and came in under expectations. Not a disaster, but not what it should have been.

 

[MadVillainy]

The marketing wasn't great either from what I can remember

 

[Flint Marko]

The marketing wasn't great either from what I can remember

Yeah it was pretty terrible.

Spoiler

From what I recall it was a rushed production and Fox had very little faith in the finished product, so I think they shortchanged the marketing to cut their losses.

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah it was pretty terrible.

Spoiler

From what I recall it was a rushed production and Fox had very little faith in the finished product, so I think they shortchanged the marketing to cut their losses.

Yeah FC and Rise of the PLanet of the Apes were 2 movies that everyone, including myself, expected to suck because of the marketing but turned out good to great

 

[Erzengel]

That was still Rothman?

 

[Drizzle]

At the time, First Class wasn't meant to be a massive blockbuster on the scale of The Last Stand. Of course they wanted it to make money, because that's what studios do. But you look at the marketing campaign for it and how practically non-existent it was on top of how it felt like a much smaller movie compared to previous entries in the series, it's clear that the movie was made to get the X-franchise back in the public's good graces so they went with quality over quantity. But it paid off, because the good word of mouth propelled Days of Future Past into production, which became the highest grossing X-Men film (not counting Deadpool).

 

[MadVillainy]

At the time, First Class wasn't meant to be a massive blockbuster on the scale of The Last Stand. Of course they wanted it to make money, because that's what studios do. But you look at the marketing campaign for it and how practically non-existent it was on top of how it felt like a much smaller movie compared to previous entries in the series, it's clear that the movie was made to get the X-franchise back in the public's good graces so they went with quality over quantity. But it paid off, because the good word of mouth propelled Days of Future Past into production, which became the highest grossing X-Men film (not counting Deadpool).

they dropped 140 mill on it, it was made for more than just to get the X Franchise back in the public's good graces and Flint's assessment of why the marketing was the way it was sounds more accurate to me

 

[MadVillainy]

That was still Rothman?

I think so

 

[Drizzle]

they dropped 140 mill on it, it was made for more than just to get the X Franchise back in the public's good graces and Flint's assessment of why the marketing was the way it was sounds more accurate to me

It is, in regards to Fox. I guess it was more on Matthew Vaughn and the creative team feeling the need to bring the franchise out of the suck-realm it had fallen into.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Yeah FC and Rise of the PLanet of the Apes were 2 movies that everyone, including myself, expected to suck because of the marketing but turned out good to great

It's horrid when marketing for two of their best movies of this decade had bad advertising.

 

[henzINNIT]

I still find First Class patchy as hell. I think the shambolic production gave it a kind of pace of its own though.


My god I haven't seen those First Class posters in a long time. What a horrific and embarrassing hack job.

 

[Drizzle]

It's horrid when marketing for two of their best movies of this decade had bad advertising.

I mean, it's nothing new for Fox. The original trailer for Star Wars, while fondly viewed now because we know how it turned out, didn't do the film any justice at all. I love its cheesiness, but it's pretty sloppy. Nearly everyone involved didn't think it would turn into the hit it became.

[YT]vP_1T4ilm8M[/YT]

 

[Lencho01]

That still would mean leaving the other leaguers out of the solo equation and just letting some out of left-field character get his/her own series.
If there's anything worth learning from a slate standpoint based on DC's animated output is sticking to ensemble teams since with every Batman show, there was a Legion of Superheroes or Teen Titans or Young Justice or GLTAS.

Hmm... I don't know. I mean, I think they would likely look at who can work strictly alone or are probably better off working with others (in terms of other superheroes showing up) depending on the concept. Like how many of us were surprised/not surprised why WB once announced a Cyborg film and outright thought of who else would be in the film. Who really wants a Cyborg film with just only him? Who wants a Cyborg film at all. t:

Also, I think a character's general popularity will probably be a factor. It's why we keep hearing of all these Harley Quinn-related projects. Oh, and the toys. Selling multiple characters instead of just one doesn't hurt.

 

[DACrowe]

Re: Comcast vs. Disney:



https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottm...be-worse-than-a-fox-disney-deal/#19fdc6657023

He makes an interesting argument, but I feel like Comcast's treatment of Universal might mean better possibilities for Fox, given how Disney treats Touchstone Pictures and treated DreamWorks before their deal with them ended.