Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 53

[FunkMiller]

It frowns more or it gets push ups again.

Now I have the image of Zack Snyder tucking his junk between his legs, so thanks for that, Boose

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Robin begins an evil vendetta against the Flash only to stop because they both have girlfriends with red hair.

I'm not creative enough to come up with suitably bad dialogue exchange for this scene.

Actually, properly and genuinely laughing out loud here. Bravo sir.

 

[Drizzle]

All I can think of seeing the dude in the top center is:

[YT]ykWPyaqbebo[/YT]

 

[Spidey_62]

I watched that Titans trailer when I woke up this morning and I completely lost it when Robin started shooting people and said "**** Batman" - like utter disbelief haha. What a completely misguided attempt. Who the hell are they over there thinking anybody wants this stuff who's not a 13 year old edgelord?

Fans: "Teen Titans is too kiddy now!"

WB/DC: "Ok let's make a show that'll make Zack Snyder's Batman look like he was a pacifist"

However, all the costumes in Aquaman look refreshingly bonkers and Shazam looks charmingly innocent.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Yknow, I have no problem with a lighter tone DC universe, but the DCEU should have probably stuck to their guns. Whedonizing the Justice League seemed to only be a disservice to the overall film. Trying to make something light and carefree that didn't start that way is not only difficult, but dumb. Marvel started with a lighter tone. Iron Man was funny, had moments of gravity, but ended with a quip and a grin. We were all ready for a light and carefree MCU.

Snyder isn't a revolutionary film maker, the DCEU isn't ripe with revolutionary film makers. But I was fine with Man of Steel and Wonder Woman's somewhat darker tones. And BvS wasn't good, but I really don't think it's tone was the primary problem.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yknow, I have no problem with a lighter tone DC universe, but the DCEU should have probably stuck to their guns. Whedonizing the Justice League seemed to only be a disservice to the overall film. Trying to make something light and carefree that didn't start that way is not only difficult, but dumb. Marvel started with a lighter tone. Iron Man was funny, had moments of gravity, but ended with a quip and a grin. We were all ready for a light and carefree MCU.

Snyder isn't a revolutionary film maker, the DCEU isn't ripe with revolutionary film makers. But I was fine with Man of Steel and Wonder Woman's somewhat darker tones. And BvS wasn't good, but I really don't think it's tone was the primary problem.

Nope. It was the terrible characterisations, appalling plotting, and pseudo-intellectual claptrap that did that.

Nothing wrong with a dark tone - for the characters it is suitable for.

The mistake they made is trying to make lighter characters darker, due to some misguided ideology that it makes them cooler and more palatable to the audience. That awful Titans trailer is just carrying that ludicrous notion forward.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

Nope. It was the terrible characterisations, appalling plotting, and pseudo-intellectual claptrap that did that.

Nothing wrong with a dark tone - for the characters it is suitable for.

The mistake they made is trying to make lighter characters darker, due to some misguided ideology that it makes them cooler and more palatable to the audience. That awful Titans trailer is just carrying that ludicrous notion forward.

I'll agree with all of this, WB will likely make 2-3 dozen wrong moves tomorrow before I even get up in the morning. But lets just talk about "darker" for a minute.

There is literally a darker color scheme to a lot of (all of?) these films, yes and I don't mind that in the slightest. But obviously we are referring to the darker storylines, dialogue, and content. Superman is darker in the DCEU than I've ever seen him in the comics. But Drax is lighter than I've ever seen him in the comics. I really do think it's okay to see a darker Superman.

And what I mean is, an attempt at gritty realism. Snyder has a stylistic way of approaching that (see: watchmen, sucker punch, 300) it's high contrast and dramatic. So, while Batman fits the style better than Superman, Snyder seems to have tried to bring both of the characters further down that end of the spectrum. Superman who kills Zod and Batman who brands criminals (and also kills them?)... Again, not something you have to appreciate as an individual, just makes more sense when you see the entire universe that way.

And in that regard, I would have been fine with it trickling through the universe. Aquaman and Shazam could bring some levity, but they should keep the overall tone. Judging by the MCU's greatest success, I would say they need to have a common thread through all their movies. In the MCU's case a tone set by Iron Man, in the DCEU's a tone set by Man of Steel. I would have been fine with that. I'd say Wonder Woman's action, coloring, drama reminds me of Man of Steel (a movie I found enjoyable). It has a darkness and grit to it that I'm fine with.

BvS and Justice League (and Suicide Squad) just needed to be better movies, and that's why I won't pay to see Aquaman.

 

[FunkMiller]

I'll agree with all of this, WB will likely make 2-3 dozen wrong moves tomorrow before I even get up in the morning. But lets just talk about "darker" for a minute.

There is literally a darker color scheme to a lot of (all of?) these films, yes and I don't mind that in the slightest. But obviously we are referring to the darker storylines, dialogue, and content. Superman is darker in the DCEU than I've ever seen him in the comics. But Drax is lighter than I've ever seen him in the comics. I really do think it's okay to see a darker Superman.

And what I mean is, an attempt at gritty realism. Snyder has a stylistic way of approaching that (see: watchmen, sucker punch, 300) it's high contrast and dramatic. So, while Batman fits the style better than Superman, Snyder seems to have tried to bring both of the characters further down that end of the spectrum. Again, not something you have to appreciate as an individual, just makes more sense when you see the entire universe that way.

And in that regard, I would have been fine with it trickling through the universe. Aquaman and Shazam could bring some levity, but judging by the MCU's greatest success, I would say they need to have a common thread through all their movies. In the MCU's case a tone set by Iron Man, in the DCEU's a tone set by Man of Steel. I would have been fine with that. I'd say Wonder Woman's action, coloring, drama reminds me of Man of Steel. It has a darkness and grit to it that I'm fine with.

BvS and Justice League (and Suicide Squad) just needed to be better movies, and that's why I won't pay to see Aquaman.

I like your thinking, and you’re absolutely right to say that there’s nothing wrong with taking a grittier or harder tone with the DC properties than with Marvel. Indeed, the DC pantheon lend themselves to a tone with more gravitas and weight, arguably.

So the issue with the DCEU thus far is not that reaches for a somewhat darker and weightier tone than Marvel - it’s just that it does a blindingly terrible job of it. Snyder lacks nuance. He is unable to strike a balance between a unique tone and feel from other comic book movies, while also respecting the source material. He wildly veers off way too far down the rabbit hole of ‘darkness’ and ‘seriousness’ in a rather adolescent attempt to capture a sense of grandeur and gravity.

In the hands of better filmmakers (like Patty Jenkins) that darker, grittier tone can work extremely well - but it takes a high degree of skill and talent to walk the right side of the line. Snyder failed miserably to do this, and hamstrung the DCEU when it was barely out of the gate.

Then there was a wild and panicky lurch back in the other direction with Justice League as an over compensation.

All of this smacks of a movie studio with no clear vision from the outset, which allowed the wrong person to move forward with his own vision, which was not the right one.

All very sad.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Does this look like the worst modern superhero series now?

Spoiler

 

[flickchick85]

Does this look like the worst modern superhero series now?

Spoiler

...Yeah.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I like your thinking, and you’re absolutely right to say that there’s nothing wrong with taking a grittier or harder tone with the DC properties than with Marvel. Indeed, the DC pantheon lend themselves to a tone with more gravitas and weight, arguably.

So the issue with the DCEU thus far is not that reaches for a somewhat darker and weightier tone than Marvel - it’s just that it does a blindingly terrible job of it. Snyder lacks nuance. He is unable to strike a balance between a unique tone and feel from other comic book movies, while also respecting the source material. He wildly veers off way too far down the rabbit hole of ‘darkness’ and ‘seriousness’ in a rather adolescent attempt to capture a sense of grandeur and gravity.

In the hands of better filmmakers (like Patty Jenkins) that darker, grittier tone can work extremely well - but it takes a high degree of skill and talent to walk the right side of the line. Snyder failed miserably to do this, and hamstrung the DCEU when it was barely out of the gate.

Then there was a wild and panicky lurch back in the other direction with Justice League as an over compensation.

All of this smacks of a movie studio with no clear vision from the outset, which allowed the wrong person to move forward with his own vision, which was not the right one.

All very sad.

This is more or less how I feel about it. Some of Snyder's atheistic really works. And his action tends to be incredible. But his understanding of the material is suspect at best. He just doesn't get the nuance of the stories he's adapting.

A perfect example to me that really represents my overall issue with Snyder is how he adapted parts of The Dark Knight Returns into BvS. Obviously TDKR is a huge influence on that film, as he's literally adapted certain shots and lines directly from the source material. And I won't pretend that TDKR is the most subtle of Batman stories out there. It's not. However, look at the "I believe you," moment in the film and the graphic novel.

In the film, Batman clearly kills the person threatening Martha. In the graphic novel, it's purposefully left ambiguous. Miller is very clearly playing with the Batman's relationship to violence throughout the entire book, which is why Batman's almost kill of Joker is such a dramatically intense moment. Because we have never gotten clear confirmation that Batman has killed anyone yet. And the fact that he can't bring himself to kill the Joker, who has done far worse things than the mutant threatening the baby, indicates that Batman did not kill the mutant threatening the baby.

But again, we don't know.

The fact that Snyder couldn't understand that the ambiguity of Batman struggling with his no kill rule was a theme of TDKR further supports why I never really took to his handlings of Batman or Superman. Some of his broad strokes more or less fit, but when it came to the details, he often over-simplified or missed the point entirely.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

...Yeah.

For the purpose of having your wish come true, this is probably a thread you should avoid visiting for at least a few months.

 

[flickchick85]

It's not a wish. Titans looks baaaaad. But Inhumans still looked even worse.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, as cheap as Titans looks, Inhumans still looks even cheaper.

The Titans budget definitely is throwing red flags out for Swamp Thing.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Night setting tends to make effects look easier on the eyes.

 

[DA_Champion]

Anyone else getting fed up with "snark" bring the default mode of fandom?

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Anyone else getting fed up with "snark" bring the default mode of fandom?

 

[1627523]

C'mon guys at some point you got move on from Snyder. The future is looking up for DC atm. We got WW84, Aquaman, Shazam,and Joker coming up with new leadership from Walter Hamada

 

[Deck Rickard]

C'mon guys at some point you got move on from Snyder. The future is looking up for DC atm. We got WW84, Aquaman, Shazam,and Joker coming up with new leadership from Walter Hamada

Yeah but we still don’t know if any of those movies will be good. I can’t even bank on Wonder Woman being good, even though I loved the first one. I’m not sure about the 1980s setting, or Kristin Wiig playing Cheetah. And the other films could go either way.

Don’t get me wrong; I hope all these films are good. But I’m still not convinced WB knows what they’re doing. That Titans trailer certainly didn’t help their cause.

 

[StarLord]

How is the audience expected to move on when DC can't?

Titans looks like a huge step backwards into Snyder territory.

 

[flickchick85]

How is the audience expected to move on when DC can't?

Titans looks like a huge step backwards into Snyder territory.

I think that's a result of when Titans went into development. If it had gotten the greenlight a year later than it did, it would probably look very different. But I was looking at the timeline of the show, and it got its pilot order in September 2014, was dropped by TNT in January 2016, and picked up by the streaming service before Snyder was officially dropped from JL. I think they were attempting to toe what WAS the company line of the time. If it were HBO, they would've put it on hold and gone back to the drawing board for a while to re-tool the show, as they did with Rome and Game of Thrones when elements of those weren't clicking for them. But the DC Streaming service surely lacks the money or confidence to do such a thing and really just needs content to launch with.

 

[Ninjablade]

Holy crap it’s been so long I completely forgot this was supposed to be on TNT.

 

[MadVillainy]

Anyone else getting fed up with "snark" bring the default mode of fandom?

Yes. Very much so

 

[Flint Marko]

Does this look like the worst superhero adaption ever made?

Spoiler

Fixed.

And yes, it does

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Fixed.

And yes, it does

I was tempted to go there myself, but the recent trailer, what I got about Birds of Prey TV series, Smallville (possibly), BvS, Ghost Rider movies, Man-Thing, yadda yadda yadda....