Superhero Cinematic Civil War - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 55

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Also, white guy in Hollywood. So, you really have to keep your expectations in check.

And again, the assumption that fanboys make is that Feige doesn't want to work with him. Which seems... unfounded and colored by fanboyism.
Arent there loads of talented white guys in Hollywood though? Why go with one with a record like his? I’m sure Feige would work with him if he believed Kinberg could deliver what he was looking for (and if he did believe that then maybe he would be seeing some promise we’re not seeing, in which case I’d have to back Feige’s vision on it). But I guess fans are banking on that not being the case. Even if I was a corrupt exec wanting to give my brother a job I’d still be wary of what effect that might have on my bonus and reputation. As long as he isn’t directing or writing the MCU X-Men films though I can possibly live with him getting other roles.
 
So Bumblebee and Aquaman both come out on December 21st. even though I said I wouldn't watch another Transformers movie, the latest teaser showing Soundwave ejecting Ravage, just made the decision on which movie I'll be watching that weekend. That shot has me giddy.
Transformers needed to do something like this to get people interested again. I’ll be watching Aquaman first because I care more about the underlying lore, but they’ve managed to get me interested again in a franchise I thought I’d had enough of.
 
It’s also quite possible that some people just aren’t in love with the MCU. :funny:
I don't have a problem with MCU critisism. I have critisized the MCU in the past. I think there are instances and movies of misplaced humor (certainly not as many certain DC fans like to nag about) and although they have improved they need to work even harder in ther villains.

The problem i have which you completely missed is the double standard many people here have. Complining about MCU "sameness" for FREAKING YEARS and about the "MCU villain problem" while turning the blind eye on exactly the same thing happening on WB and Fox. Or is someone gonna try and convince me that the DCEU doesn't have a similar aesthetic in their films or they don't already have a villain problem? Same with Fox?
And not only that but when there is clearly a change post Phase 2 with Ike and his Creative Committee disbanded which were reported for many mandates and restrictions in the MCU you keep repeating the same tropes while staying mute on other franchises with similar problems.

It's just a little suspicious. Almost like a subconscious effort to push back against MCU's absolute success. Rarely has a franchise so wide approval by hardcore fans, critics and box office and i think it creates the need to some of you to counter it.

Otherwise i really can't explain how there are numerous pieces about "MCU's villain problem" and not even one about "Fox Marvel movies villain problem".
 
Also, white guy in Hollywood. So, you really have to keep your expectations in check.

And again, the assumption that fanboys make is that Feige doesn't want to work with him. Which seems... unfounded and colored by fanboyism.

And your assumption that Marvel will work with him is founded in what exactly...?
 
And again, the assumption that fanboys make is that Feige doesn't want to work with him. Which seems... unfounded and colored by fanboyism.
Or it's coming from the recent example set by Spider-Man - that when rebooting a character for the MCU, he's not interested in keeping the old franchise's scraps. And Marvel had a much better relationship with Sony than Fox beforehand. Kinberg might get a producer credit, but that's probably about it.
 
Well Ares is this generation's Darth Vader. :o
Good grief you actually made a thread. I thought the Thanos one was silly enough, but eh:
  1. Hippolyta explains the Amazonian history to Diana, including how Ares became jealous of humanity and orchestrated its destruction. When the other gods attempted to stop him, Ares (Anakin) killed all but Zeus (Obi Wan), who used the last of his power to wound Ares and force his retreat. Before dying, Zeus left the Amazons the island and a weapon, the "Godkiller", to prepare them for Ares's return.
  2. When Diana attempts to kill Ares with the "Godkiller" sword, he destroys it, then reveals to Diana that she is the "Godkiller", as the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. He fails to persuade Diana to help him destroy mankind in order to restore paradise on Earth.
Wonder Woman (2017 film) - Wikipedia
 
I am still kind of amazed that "unrelated Joker movie" is being filmed before Flash. Or Affleck Batman. Or another Superman movie. Hell, even Suicide Squad 2.
 
When I say tone and aesthetics, I'm talking about as movies as wildly different as once upon a time getting Spider-Man 2 and Batman Begins in back-to-back years, or even recently the difference between something like Deadpool and Logan, which is why I am one of the more vocally open-minded folks around here about "Fox-Men" in spite of, sigh, Kinberg's misfires.

When it comes to the MCU movies, what ties them together is far closer than what ties them apart. You can agree they all have a visual similarity, but narratively and tonally let's look at some of the others you listed. Guardians is one of if not my overall favorite MCU properties (shame they killed the golden goose), because there was so much of James Gunn's personality in it. That also is why he will be the first director they struggle to replace. Even so though, the first Guardians movie follows the same formula template of all the MCU movies in Phase 2, which post-Avengers is a bunch of disparate superpowered beings forming basically a band to fight a giant CGI threat to the world and/or universe at the end. The Guardians coming together to fight Ronan, Cap's team-up of Falcon, Widow, Fury, and Hill in TWS, Thor, Loki, Jane, and sigh, Jane's sidekicks in TDW, etc.

And tonally, they each use self-effacing humor as a defense mechanism, which is fine, but when they all do it they all tonally to varying degrees undercut their tension or differences, ironing out into an overall prepackaged feeling of similar safeness. So yes, TWS and CW play a little rougher than the other MCU movies, the same way Ant-Man plays a little softer, but you can feel the films engineered to get closer to a "default" scenario. In TWS, that involves a giant CGI slugfest and needless Macguffins in the third act so Cap can save the world, plenty of tension-deflating humor, and an emphasis on HYDRA so as to backpedal on any sincere political or social commentary and so as to not rock the MCU boat. CW embraces this more with the humor and glee of seeing Spidey trade barbs with Cap and Ant-Man grow enormous, so I prefer it. It also has the characters though in the "war" of the Civil War constantly joking with each other to suggest this is more of a friendly skirmish than a "war." Even the end that goes bleak, has to backpedal with Cap sending Tony a cellphone and basically apologizing, and then Tony making jokes at Ross' expense.

There's always a need to keep it right down the middle. Black Panther has the same third act problems as most MCU movies and still tonally feels very similar to most MCU movies, although thematically it adds more meat than most MCU movies, which is why I think it's one of the best.

Still, overall, there is a sameness that after 10 years is tangibly familiar. You look at Phoenix's Joker and you go, that's different! That is what some of us want more of. Not in the sense that they have to go crazy character actor/serial killer on something. But shake us out of apathy and come at this genre from a different angle.

The comparison to Phoenix's Joker is shaky at best as pretty much nothing indicates that I'd call that a superhero film, and comic book film is really a pretty stupid thing to make into a genre as it doesn't mention what the film in the genre is about, only in which format the source was published. Genres should talk about the content.

Deadpool and Logan are better examples, although Deadpool fits most things you describe only with R-rated material.
 
Good grief you actually made a thread. I thought the Thanos one was silly enough, but eh:
  1. Hippolyta explains the Amazonian history to Diana, including how Ares became jealous of humanity and orchestrated its destruction. When the other gods attempted to stop him, Ares (Anakin) killed all but Zeus (Obi Wan), who used the last of his power to wound Ares and force his retreat. Before dying, Zeus left the Amazons the island and a weapon, the "Godkiller", to prepare them for Ares's return.
  2. When Diana attempts to kill Ares with the "Godkiller" sword, he destroys it, then reveals to Diana that she is the "Godkiller", as the daughter of Zeus and Hippolyta. He fails to persuade Diana to help him destroy mankind in order to restore paradise on Earth.
Wonder Woman (2017 film) - Wikipedia
Thank you for supporting my claim. It's even more obvious that he is. :D
 
Apparently WB/Wan screened about 20 minutes of Aquaman for the press and it sounds promising. I've been really confident in that movie for quite some time now, even after that moderately wobbly first trailer, so I'm excited that the marketing is really about to kick into gear soon.
 
I am still kind of amazed that "unrelated Joker movie" is being filmed before Flash. Or Affleck Batman. Or another Superman movie. Hell, even Suicide Squad 2.


I can't believe it's being made at all.
 
You mean the guy who gave a movie to the directors of You, Me, and Dupree? Yeah, I think you have a lot to be worried about if Kinberg scares you.

Of course, the fanboy theory that Feige would not want Kinberg involved may very well be wrong. Kinberg is clearly adept at studio politics, and it would not surprise me if he has already established a friendly relationship with Feige. And quite frankly, Kinberg is a very good producer, and would be an asset to Feige.

You think Feige will relinquish control of MCU's X-men over to the same guy who's been with the franchise since 2006? To the same guy, who as a writer, has botched Dark Phoenix (once...for now), Fantastic Four, and Apocalypse.

Being both big time Hollywood producers, yea Feige and Kinberg might be friendly. But what would rehiring Simon Kinberg accomplish for a newly rebooted X-men? Sounds like the usual scare tactics and an idea that has not been properly vetted.
 
There's about a 0% chance Kinberg has any real involvement with Marvel going forward. Take that to the bank.
 
Maybe Kinberg can take over Inhumans.

*snort*
Haha, something he might be able to improve! Kinberg Vs Buck, finally a match up he can win. Make it a loser leaves town retirement match.
 
I am still kind of amazed that "unrelated Joker movie" is being filmed before Flash. Or Affleck Batman. Or another Superman movie. Hell, even Suicide Squad 2.
I'm still amazed they let Suicide Squad's Joker slide.

There's about a 0% chance Kinberg has any real involvement with Marvel going forward. Take that to the bank.
Hi bank teller, I need to deposit this post in my account. Don't shake your head pal, I'm serious, it's of value.
 
Apparently WB/Wan screened about 20 minutes of Aquaman for the press and it sounds promising. I've been really confident in that movie for quite some time now, even after that moderately wobbly first trailer, so I'm excited that the marketing is really about to kick into gear soon.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing more.
 
When I say tone and aesthetics, I'm talking about as movies as wildly different as once upon a time getting Spider-Man 2 and Batman Begins in back-to-back years, or even recently the difference between something like Deadpool and Logan, which is why I am one of the more vocally open-minded folks around here about "Fox-Men" in spite of, sigh, Kinberg's misfires.

When it comes to the MCU movies, what ties them together is far closer than what ties them apart. You can agree they all have a visual similarity, but narratively and tonally let's look at some of the others you listed. Guardians is one of if not my overall favorite MCU properties (shame they killed the golden goose), because there was so much of James Gunn's personality in it. That also is why he will be the first director they struggle to replace. Even so though, the first Guardians movie follows the same formula template of all the MCU movies in Phase 2, which post-Avengers is a bunch of disparate superpowered beings forming basically a band to fight a giant CGI threat to the world and/or universe at the end. The Guardians coming together to fight Ronan, Cap's team-up of Falcon, Widow, Fury, and Hill in TWS, Thor, Loki, Jane, and sigh, Jane's sidekicks in TDW, etc.

And tonally, they each use self-effacing humor as a defense mechanism, which is fine, but when they all do it they all tonally to varying degrees undercut their tension or differences, ironing out into an overall prepackaged feeling of similar safeness. So yes, TWS and CW play a little rougher than the other MCU movies, the same way Ant-Man plays a little softer, but you can feel the films engineered to get closer to a "default" scenario. In TWS, that involves a giant CGI slugfest and needless Macguffins in the third act so Cap can save the world, plenty of tension-deflating humor, and an emphasis on HYDRA so as to backpedal on any sincere political or social commentary and so as to not rock the MCU boat. CW embraces this more with the humor and glee of seeing Spidey trade barbs with Cap and Ant-Man grow enormous, so I prefer it. It also has the characters though in the "war" of the Civil War constantly joking with each other to suggest this is more of a friendly skirmish than a "war." Even the end that goes bleak, has to backpedal with Cap sending Tony a cellphone and basically apologizing, and then Tony making jokes at Ross' expense.

There's always a need to keep it right down the middle. Black Panther has the same third act problems as most MCU movies and still tonally feels very similar to most MCU movies, although thematically it adds more meat than most MCU movies, which is why I think it's one of the best.

Still, overall, there is a sameness that after 10 years is tangibly familiar. You look at Phoenix's Joker and you go, that's different! That is what some of us want more of. Not in the sense that they have to go crazy character actor/serial killer on something. But shake us out of apathy and come at this genre from a different angle.

Some of that is just a natural consequence of Marvel being Marvel. I mean, all of the classic Marvel characters practically come from a small group of guys close in their personalities and worldviews. There's multiple comics you can point to where fans say "That's such a Stan Lee thing" or "That's just a Kirby thing to do". The best of the MCU films aren't too far from that.

DC is almost more diverse by default since it started as a group of companies that later amalgamated. Characters like Batman and Superman were made by entirely different people in entirely different places in space-time. They also historically didn't put as much emphasis on serialized storytelling. Marvel always had the more iconic runs (the Lee/Ditko run, the Claremont run, etc.), while DC always had the more iconic stand-alones (Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns).

I do agree the MCU could use more variety, but something as Joaquin's Joker is hard to come by in the Marvel universe in general (a comic equivalent to that is the Joker graphic novel that came out after TDK). Even in the case of Logan, it's hard to come by many 616-set stories that are like that. Something like that is much more common in the "What if?" continuities.
 
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Some of that is just a natural consequence of Marvel being Marvel. I mean, all of the classic Marvel characters practically come from a small group of guys close in their personalities and worldviews. There's multiple comics you can point to where fans say "That's such a Stan Lee thing" or "That's just a Kirby thing to do". The best of the MCU films aren't too far from that.

DC is almost more diverse by default since it started as a group of companies that later amalgamated. Characters like Batman and Superman were made by entirely different people in entirely different places in space-time. They also historically didn't put as much emphasis on serialized storytelling. Marvel always had the more iconic runs (the Lee/Ditko run, the Claremont run, etc.), while DC always had the more iconic stand-alones (Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns).

I do agree the MCU could use more variety, but something as Joaquin's Joker is hard to come by in the Marvel universe in general (a comic equivalent to that is the Joker graphic novel that came out after TDK). Even in the case of Logan, it's hard to come by many 616-set stories that are like that. Something like that is much more common in the "What if?" continuities.

Just agree to disagree. I recall reading many Stan Lee and Jack Kirby (and Steve Ditko, and John Romita) stories. The Fantastic Four was an adventure story through space and time not unlike how high seas adventures were treated in the 19th century, Spider-Man was a college (more than high school, ironically) soap opera, as they veered more apart in later decades, X-Men was about moody teens feeling isolated. And they could switch gears from lighter, smaller stories, to going grim and macabre, or psychedelic in the case of Doctor Strange.

The movies play it much more safe than the comics ever did.
 
Just agree to disagree. I recall reading many Stan Lee and Jack Kirby (and Steve Ditko, and John Romita) stories. The Fantastic Four was an adventure story through space and time not unlike how high seas adventures were treated in the 19th century, Spider-Man was a college (more than high school, ironically) soap opera, as they veered more apart in later decades, X-Men was about moody teens feeling isolated. And they could switch gears from lighter, smaller stories, to going grim and macabre, or psychedelic in the case of Doctor Strange.

The movies play it much more safe than the comics ever did.
Mostly agree. Which is why I said the best of the MCU films aren't too far from that. I think the difference between something like Black Panther and Guardians is about the same as between that of, say, a 60s Black Panther comic and a Lee/Kirby FF comic.
 
Bob Iger asking Kevin Feige what he wants.

Just like Ashley Tisdale from High School Musical!

Cobra Commander: The Ashley Tisdale of GI Joe.

NOTE: I ripped this joke off from Comicsalliance.
 
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