Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

[Erzengel]

I keep forgetting Snyder gave us 300.

I feel 300 and to a lesser extent Watchmen are adaptions of comic book stories, whereas MOS-JL are original which personally, he needed more help and oversight on.

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah, MCU fanboyism is nowhere near the level of Snyder or even Nolan levels especially with people constantly reminding them the movies are no where as good this other CBM, no stakes, etc.

No one said that MCU fanboyism is the level of Nolan or Snyder fans. No one even implied that. I even said the opposite. That wasn't a point made since this convo started

I just said it can be an echo chamber of people praising the MCU and there's not that much rational, insightful fun DCEU vs MCU convos anymore when it comes to the movies on the site. At least from this thread and me lurking in other ones. Even once 1 person says a criticism about the MCU, whatever it is, it's mostly drowned out by MCU defenders at least in this thread. Which is fine, but it would be cool if there was more or a balance between opinions. Just makes the convo more fun, regardless of who I agree with.

 

[MadVillainy]

300 is still unironically great to me. Great B movie. Very entertaining.

Never saw the sequel

EDIT: and I also recommend Snyder's Dawn of the Dead. Especially during this month. It's pretty good and entertaining.

 

[Drizzle]

Yeah, MCU fanboyism is nowhere near the level of Snyder or even Nolan levels especially with people constantly reminding them the movies are no where as good this other CBM, no stakes, etc.

The "no stakes in Marvel as opposed to DC" argument bugs the hell out of me because it almost always refers to killing off characters. Literally the only non-villain main character that died in TDK trilogy was Rachel. Ditto for Pa Kent and Jor-El in the DCEU. I don't fully know what the deal is with Steve in WW84, but the point is they brought him back from the dead just like Superman. At least with Marvel they seem to be sticking with keeping Tony and Natasha dead, or so they say.

 

[Erzengel]

No one said that MCU fanboyism is the level of Nolan or Snyder fans. No one even implied that. I even said the opposite. That wasn't a point made since this convo started

I just said it can be an echo chamber of people praising the MCU and there's not that much rational, insightful fun DCEU vs MCU convos anymore when it comes to the movies on the site. At least from this thread and me lurking in other ones. Even once 1 person says a criticism about the MCU, whatever it is, it's mostly drowned out by MCU defenders at least in this thread. Which is fine, but it would be cool if there was more or a balance between opinions. Just makes the convo more fun, regardless of who I agree with.

I mean if you're talking recently, I think we'd be discussing more things like Black Widow, Eternals, WW84 if it wasn't for the pandemic.

It feels like a circle of things we are talking about and it's on repeat because the only thing released in the past few months is New Mutants which not a lot of people have seen.

 

[Erzengel]

The "no stakes in Marvel as opposed to DC" argument bugs the hell out of me because it almost always refers to killing off characters. Literally the only non-villain main character that died in TDK trilogy was Rachel. Ditto for Pa Kent and Jor-El in the DCEU. I don't fully know what the deal is with Steve in WW84, but the point is they brought him back from the dead just like Superman. At least with Marvel they seem to be sticking with keeping Tony and Natasha dead, or so they say.

Granted he was still alive at the end of Endgame, I think you can pretty much add Cap to that. Obviously Evans can change his mind, but I feel he's done with the MCU.

 

[Kev4000]

Granted he was still alive at the end of Endgame, I think you can pretty much add Cap to that. Obviously Evans can change his mind, but I feel he's done with the MCU.

I wouldnt wonder if he has a scene in F&WS or have some little appereances here and there.
Dont steal my hope we could see him young again with a Secret-Empire-Storyline.

 

[Erzengel]

The fact that Rogers is in the What If series but is not being voice by Evans leads me to believe he's done.

 

[MadVillainy]

I mean if you're talking recently, I think we'd be discussing more things like Black Widow, Eternals, WW84 if it wasn't for the pandemic.

It feels like a circle of things we are talking about and it's on repeat because the only thing released in the past few months is New Mutants which not a lot of people have seen.

I wasn't just talking recently at all. Never said that. I was talking generally

 

[Detective Conan]

Is anyone actually gonna watch the Snyder Cut beyond his devoted fanbase though?

Yes, people who definitely won’t like the product anyway but are morbidly curious to see if it’s any better or worse than the theatrical cut.

 

[MadVillainy]

The "no stakes in Marvel as opposed to DC" argument bugs the hell out of me because it almost always refers to killing off characters. Literally the only non-villain main character that died in TDK trilogy was Rachel. Ditto for Pa Kent and Jor-El in the DCEU. I don't fully know what the deal is with Steve in WW84, but the point is they brought him back from the dead just like Superman. At least with Marvel they seem to be sticking with keeping Tony and Natasha dead, or so they say.

Yeah when it comes to character deaths I wouldn't say they, or most major blockbuster series, are that good in that regard.
And I mean sure MCU killed of BW and Tony, but those were still cool heroic sacrifice deaths. They were pretty sad, but they still are kinda meh. Im not gonna give them credit for them "staying dead" when I'm sure the decision behind that was also just that their contracts were up.

Logan's death I still think is the best one done in recent SH movies. That or Mystique in Dark Phoenix

It's funny though because I feel TV is the opposite with some shoes where it's just "DEATH DEATH DEATH" that I'm just numb to characters at that point

 

[Erzengel]

Well, Johansson's contract wasn't essentially up but you could argue that Jackman's was in Logan.

 

[MadVillainy]

EDIT

 

[Fincher]

Yes, people who definitely won’t like the product anyway but are morbidly curious to see if it’s any better or worse than the theatrical cut.

If someone handed me the Snyder Cut right now I'd watch it. I wouldn't get a streaming service for it, though.

 

[MadVillainy]

Yeah I think people kinda overestimate the thing of how easily new people sign up for streaming services long term to just watch one thing or event. Whether that's Mulan, potentially Black Widow, or in this case the Snyder Cut. I mean Snyder Cut is still a very cult thing. Mulan even without the VOD I don't think would've driven that that many people to Disney+. BW I'm sure would, but I think they realize that it's still not that financially sound.

 

[Erzengel]

His contract wasn't up. He decided to step away. There's nothing out there about that. I think he even mentioned before not being on a set contract. Whether that's true or not idk.
ScarJo's was essentially up she only had one film left. Hence the solo movie after EG

I think that's just a matter of semantics. I'm too lazy to look up how many films Jackman was originally slated, got extended, etc. But if he was sold on the story of Logan and signed the contract so he can walk away from the character, I don't see that any different from RDJ walking away after Endgame.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think that's just a matter of semantics. I'm too lazy to look up how many films Jackman was originally slated, got extended, etc. But if he was sold on the story of Logan and signed the contract so he can walk away from the character, I don't see that any different from RDJ walking away after Endgame.

Sure. No doubt

 

[Drizzle]

Is anyone actually gonna watch the Snyder Cut beyond his devoted fanbase though?

I'll watch it because I get HBO Max free with my cable subscription anyway.

 

[Erzengel]

I'd watch it so I can be informed when it's discussed. However, if this is released after the time my In Laws HBO Max subscription, I'd wait at least the 1st week then subscribe and then cancel after the last episode so I wouldn't have to pay more than the month.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

I’ll watch it. I can’t turn away from a train wreck. I’ll “acquire” it though.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I just wonder why Snyder wouldn’t also bring Margot Robbie in the mix as Harley. I mean after all:



*cues “Superfreak” in the background*

 

[kguillou]

Well just looking at it objectively, i think it will get high watch numbers because you can be sure HBO Max is gonna market the Hell out of it as a brand new thing to its subscriber base. In fact if theyre smart they’ll push its two biggest stars: Gal and Mamoa front and center. “Hey guys, Aquaman and Wonder Woman are back! Here’s something to whet your appetite until their sequels are released in 2025!”

 

[Erzengel]

What happens to all those subscribers after the Snyder Cut is finished? They aren't going to stay 4 more years waiting.

So even if it's a huge spike in subscriber numbers, then there will be a subsequent dip in numbers.

 

[MadVillainy]

Well just looking at it objectively, i think it will get high watch numbers because you can be sure HBO Max is gonna market the Hell out of it as a brand new thing to its subscriber base. In fact if theyre smart they’ll push its two biggest stars: Gal and Mamoa front and center. “Hey guys, Aquaman and Wonder Woman are back! Here’s something to whet your appetite until their sequels are released in 2025!”

But is it watch numbers from people who already have the service or new people signing up? And again there's no guarantee they'll stick around if they just sign up.

I mean for sure, we'll hear "It broke _____ record" We always do with these kinda things. But that doesn't mean it will be a success or worth doing it.

And again I really don't get why people think this is gonna bring a large number of people to its subscriber base.
If this was an extended version of BoP, maybe. Because even though it didn't make a lot of money, it has a largely positive reception. Or even something like Blade Runner 2049, which was lauded but didn't make money at the theater. But JL has a negative connotation to it as of now.

I'm not saying the GA hates it, but you know what I'm saying. But it's a really big advertising hurdle and tough sell to be like: "Remember that movie you didn't see and maybe you didn't like? Well here's a longer version of that"

If the cut is really that much better that could really help. But Snyder hasn't made a GA accepted, mass appeal project since 300 in 2006. And since they're giving free reign, I don't see that changing

 

[Erzengel]

73 million subscribers watched Enola Holmes on Netflix over the course of the 4 weeks of it's release. There is no indication how much that equates to in terms of money.