Superhero Cinematic Civil War - Part 57

Discussion in 'Misc. Comics Films' started by flickchick85, Dec 8, 2019.

  1. fan4stic Registered

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    Oi. Why can't antagonistic journalists berating Spider-Man be antagonistic journalists berating Spider-Man, evil corporate villains be evil corporate villains, government corruption be government corruption?
     
  2. Spider-Fan SHHFFL 2014/2019 Champion

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    Almost all evil characters are inspired by real life things. The empire in Star Wars is not just an evil space empire. It is based on the Nazis. So incorporating modern politics into a fictional work is nothing new in the least.
     
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  3. fan4stic Registered

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    I think there's a difference between inspiration and more direct parallels to the point of altering something, to me. Something like making J. Jonah Jameson into an overarcing character, in him being anti mutant or whatever is an idea I've seen pitched, to make him more Alex Jonesy, which I think is dumb and pointless. He's against Spider-Man in what I've seen of him. I think to do that is not as well rounded for the character.
     
  4. Spider-Fan SHHFFL 2014/2019 Champion

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    Depends on execution. As with anything. The idea itself is not the problem. Again, the Empire is a direct parallel to the Nazis. Same can be said of many Bond villains, etc. Every idea has to come from somewhere, so if it fits the story, then who cares if it is a direct parallel? We should focus on if the story is good. Not personal hurt feelings because art is too political. Art has always been political.
     
  5. flickchick85 Admin of Might

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    I read that storyline a year or two ago after @KRYPTON INC. recommended it to me. Good stuff. I assume this version will be very different since they can't use Steve, but I look forward to seeing their version of it.
     
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  6. KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    Happy you gave those old stories a whirl. Definitely old school in it's execution.

    I do REALLY hope Marvel/Disney sees that a character like U.S. Agent is perfectly made to act as social/political commentary. The way this is being set up it feels like it's literally about the symbols of America and what that means and to whom? I hope they don't just devolve this into Saturday morning cartoon territory.
     
  7. Triklops1975 Registered

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    :funny::funny::funny:

    Sorry, I didn't resist...
     
  8. Blade Hoarder Registered

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    the empire is also based on the United States. The rebels were the Vietcong. That’s right from the horse’s mouth.
     
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  9. fan4stic Registered

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    I don't know if I agree. I don't view something like paralelling nazis in a way as political. I don't view nazism or even paralleling it like that as a political concept. I don't view The Dark Knight as political, despite there being some conversation in the political concepts of listening in on people's conversations. Even the use of a similar concept that I think I've seen some suggest was in The Winter Soldier, but I don't see that movie as political. The Dark Knight Rises, I see more as presenting a social concept of the rich vs the poor, in a way, than political. Similar to the Joker. In those ways. To me, dealing with immigration issues doesn't have to be political, as an example. I don't know a lot about Bond villains, so I'm not really sure if that's the case with them.

    How many things fit a story and who decides it does, and why should we change the concept of a character to fit that? Like the Jameson idea. I think that's a needless, lacking dimension, concept for the character, that doesn't really feel like it benefits the character or the story.
     
    #10909 fan4stic, Oct 23, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  10. Blade Hoarder Registered

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    W....what? Rich vs poor is the very basis of right vs left parliamentary politics. What?

    And how is Jameson being 24/7 outrage machine for spider-man a nuanced character? I love the Raimi films and the classic portrayal of JJJ. But face it, he’s a cartoon.

    Making him more explicitly political where he has an ideology beyond Spider-Man is a step up.
     
  11. Sithborg The Pink Devil

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    The fun thing about opinions. They are different.

    I will watch Apocalypse, Ghost Rider 2, and The Wolverine over Infinity War any day. I have strong opinions on Snyder's movies, but its cool people like them.

    The popularization of fandom, I think has caused many in the fandoms to feel others must like what they like, that what they like equals quality. Its generally why I stick to this thread rather than the movie forums. Because going against the popular opinion is so much less of a hassle here.
     
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  12. fan4stic Registered

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    To me, that's a social and moral issue, not a political one, in the way I view politics. Maybe others see it that way. In a way, I think politics can be involved, but not what it's about. Similar

    That certainly wasn't the extent of his character to me, even in those movies. In the animated series, he showcases other facets of personality. In the movies he does, where he showcases himself as someone willing to die rather than give Peter up to the Goblin. I think he hates Spider-Man, but isn't an outrage machine. I think he's more outragey in Spider-Man PS4.

    I don't see it as an ideology, but a way to try and paint the character as more in the wrong, by paralleling him with someone real. Jameson, to me, is a grumpy old man complaining about cell phones and rock n roll that dem kids mess with, not something else. To me, he's someone who hates Spider-Man and making him that pitch I saw, I see as having no point and taking away from the character's dimension.
     
  13. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    The idea that Star Wars, The Dark Knight and The Winter Soldier are not political is just fundamentally wrong. If someone doesn't want to see the very overt politics in the work, that is one thing. But not liking them, doesn't mean they don't exist and they clearly do in all those situation.

    As to the Jameson thing, it's clearly a modern day update, that keeps him a relevant grifter news man in the year 2021.
     
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  14. DarthSkywalker May the Force Be With You

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    On this subject, I find it incredibly hilarious that a lot of right wingers favorite movies from the last decade or so (TDK, TWS, Civil War, Fury Road, etc.), directly crap on them and their political views. Which is exactly why they try to erase the politics from the films. I will never, and I mean never, get over the idea that Fury Road is not a feminist film at it's heart. It's' so perfectly absurd. :funny:
     
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  15. jmc away for a while

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    There's a difference between a story having a specific political position and one that happens to have elements that reflect the real world. In most cases reflection from real life is often coincidental because the stories are written years earlier.
     
  16. Blade Hoarder Registered

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    you make them sound mutually exclusive or something? Politics isn’t some loopy mathematical diagram that’s divorced from reality. They are also moral and social issues.
    people who have reactionary views on technology and music tend to have other retrograde views as well. You seem to be defeating your own argument. If JJ is already an old dude complains about those things. It’s hardly more than a step or two to imagine he would be reactionary in other ways.
     
  17. Spider-Fan SHHFFL 2014/2019 Champion

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    The movies you named are very political. The core issue at the heart of TWS is how far do you value security over freedom, which has been a very real world issue and question. See the Patriot Act and such during the Bush Administration. TDK trilogy is all about class warfare. It also hits on The Patriot Act also. Remember the plotline with Batman using cell phones to spy on the city? Direct parallel to The Patriot Act. These are all very political films. Now, they are executed in a way that works. That is the difference between any good vs bad film though: execution.
     
    #10917 Spider-Fan, Oct 23, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
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  18. Fosterson Registered

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    It's bit like how a lot of right-wingers love the Matrix and use the term "redpilling" to describe when a person is converted to their cause.

    There have even been far-right protestors in the US recently seen wearing the Guy Fawkes mask from V for Vendetta, even though both the graphic novel and movie (sorry, Alan Moore) are a throughgoing condemndation of right-wing politics and where they can lead.

    Hugo Weaving actually recently discussed this very issue: Hugo Weaving Blasts Right-Wing Groups’ ‘Shallow Reading’ of The Matrix, V for Vendetta
     
  19. Erzengel |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

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    I thought the term "redpilling" had more to do with the whole misogynistic men and their outlook on women, relationships etc.?
     
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  20. Blade Hoarder Registered

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    In the matrix redpilling is a metaphor for crossing the gender barrier. Long speculated but recently verified by Lana Wachowski herself.

    which is funny AF that incels use it as a term to cross the decency barrier.
     
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  21. Shinobi Shaw Hellfire Club's Black King

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    Here I thought taking the red pill just meant you could stay in Wonderland and see how deep the rabbit hole goes.
     
  22. Sithborg The Pink Devil

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    Once again, I am glad I stepped back from the alt-right ledge before I took these absurd phrases seriously...
     
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  24. Kev4000 Registered

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    I wonder if that means we get 5 movies in 2022 from the MCU.
     
  25. Flint Marko Bring me Thanos

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    Yeah I've always viewed this thread as more of a lounge than anything else. You could pretty much post about whatever superhero material you want here and it's fair game and usually sparks a discussion.

    In terms of the actual discussions at the moment, I think a lot of my disinterest not just in this thread but the Hype, in general, boils down to the drought of relevant news we're getting :funny: It goes without saying but I'm gonna need more than Helstrom to keep me engaged.

    I'm begging the universe to give us Black Widow and WW84 soon as humanly possible.

    Reminds me of people getting mad at Tom Morello and Zach De La Rocha for "getting political" when 100% of their music for decades has been politically charged. It's like some people think they were named "Rage FOR the machine"
     

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